Logic and Alan Dershowitz

[Irvrobinson]

did you stop and think how many of those 25+ million without health coverage are at that point because of their own stupidity / neglect ?

That's the real problem; personal responsibility and accountability are no longer considered important.

 

[NINaudio]

did you stop and think how many of those 25+ million without health coverage are at that point because of their own stupidity / neglect ?

Did you stop and think how many less people would seek abortions if they had better access to healthcare? What about if we had better sex education in our schools?

I've been without healthcare coverage before. Was I being stupid/neglectful? No. I was laid off from a job and couldn't find comparable work for some time.

I was lucky enough that I had been going to the same doctors for years, so they hooked me up with samples of my asthma maintenance medications once my COBRA ran out. Out of pocket costs for one of the preventive medicines I use for asthma is $350/month. So yes, I think improving healthcare coverage is more important than making anti-abortion laws. I see no reason for people to have children that they don't want/can't support.

 

[highfigh]

Did you stop and think how many less people would seek abortions if they had better access to healthcare? What about if we had better sex education in our schools?

I've been without healthcare coverage before. Was I being stupid/neglectful? No. I was laid off from a job and couldn't find comparable work for some time.

I was lucky enough that I had been going to the same doctors for years, so they hooked me up with samples of my asthma maintenance medications once my COBRA ran out. Out of pocket costs for one of the preventive medicines I use for asthma is $350/month. So yes, I think improving healthcare coverage is more important than making anti-abortion laws. I see no reason for people to have children that they don't want/can't support.

Look at the chart in the link I posted- abortion numbers have dropped drastically, so it means fewer are becoming pregnant or fewer abortions are being reported.

Health care and drug prices are connected, but not the same. In both, changes are needed.

If they don't want or can't afford kids, they shouldn't become pregnant in the first place. That's not as difficult as many think.

 

[sterling shoote]

Does he really though? What happens to them if they die before they're baptized?

And what about all those uninsured people? No love for them, huh?

What about it, there's no argument for killing the unborn. I'm not going to debate it. If you do not believe in the unborn baby's right to life then I there is no conversation I want to have with you.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Perhaps you misunderstood what I stated? I know Clinton is a centrist. If she had been elected, one could assume that she would run again. Therefore, you probably wouldn't be seeing the nomination race featuring Sanders, Warren, etc.

You are probably correct, because incumbent presidents are never challenged in their own parties, but I think that would just postpone the leftist movement for four years. In the US we have yet to deal with the uncompetitive education and preparation in the bottom 50% of our population. Our population is large enough so that the top 30% makes up a viable virtual country and economy of its own. And we attract some of the best and the brightest from the entire world in immigration. Just a few years later IMO the leftists would emerge as a reaction to the structural issues we have to address.

 

[GO-NAD!]

You are probably correct, because incumbent presidents are never challenged in their own parties, but I think that would just postpone the leftist movement for four years. In the US we have yet to deal with the uncompetitive education and preparation in the bottom 50% of our population. Our population is large enough so that the top 30% makes up a viable virtual country and economy of its own. And we attract some of the best and the brightest from the entire world in immigration. Just a few years later IMO the leftists would emerge as a reaction to the structural issues we have to address.

Perhaps. But, it's also possible that she might have taken some wind out of the hard left's sails, whereas, Trump has done the opposite.

 

[NINaudio]

What about it, there's no argument for killing the unborn. I'm not going to debate it. If you do not believe in the unborn baby's right to life then I there is no conversation I want to have with you.

That's your personal moral viewpoint on it. I still argue that there's no reason for abortion to be legislated against when it is a personal choice that doesn't affect you. There are much bigger/important things that should be focused on and improved.

Look at the chart in the link I posted- abortion numbers have dropped drastically, so it means fewer are becoming pregnant or fewer abortions are being reported.

That chart is initially where I got my less than 2% figure from, which I now realize is a mistake as it counts all women of child-bearing age, not just those who are pregnant in a given year.

I'm clearly in the minority in this thread and am not going to change anyone's viewpoints here, nor will you change mine with your moral or religious arguments.

Health care and drug prices are connected, but not the same. In both, changes are needed.

On this we can definitely agree.

 

[Mikado463]

Did you stop and think how many less people would seek abortions if they had better access to healthcare? What about if we had better sex education in our schools?

I've been without healthcare coverage before. Was I being stupid/neglectful? No. I was laid off from a job and couldn't find comparable work for some time.

I was lucky enough that I had been going to the same doctors for years, so they hooked me up with samples of my asthma maintenance medications once my COBRA ran out. Out of pocket costs for one of the preventive medicines I use for asthma is $350/month. So yes, I think improving healthcare coverage is more important than making anti-abortion laws. I see no reason for people to have children that they don't want/can't support.

well, you typed three paragraphs and didn't answer my question, so I'll take it then your answer is no ...........

as for improving the health system, I agree, plenty of room for improvement

 

[Trell]

did you stop and think how many of those 25+ million without health coverage are at that point because of their own stupidity / neglect ?

You clearly have thought deeply about this so why don't you tell us?

Edit: Fix typo

 

[NINaudio]

well, you typed three paragraphs and didn't answer my question, so I'll take it then your answer is no ...........

If you're referring to this:

did you stop and think how many of those 25+ million without health coverage are at that point because of their own stupidity / neglect ?

Without polling them all and administering an intelligence test there is no way to get a definitive answer to your question. I suspect the number is lower than you think it is. There will always be people that use and abuse any system that is put in place, it doesn't mean you should have inadequate systems for helping those in need.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I'll tell you why, God loves the unborn.

So, now a group is forcing their religious beliefs on others. What's next?

Just let god deal out his punishment, not man.

 

[Mikado463]

You clearly have thought deeply about this so why don't you tell us?

Edit: Fix typo

not at all, my 'deep thinking' revolves around running my business so I can responsibly pay for my health care insurance .........

 

[Mikado463]

There will always be people that use and abuse any system that is put in place, it doesn't mean you should have inadequate systems for helping those in need.

again, agreed. It's definition and disbursement where things get cloudy .........

 

[mtrycrafts]

What about it, there's no argument for killing the unborn. I'm not going to debate it. If you do not believe in the unborn baby's right to life then I there is no conversation I want to have with you.

Your way or the highway?

It is legal. You don't have to like it and no one is forced to have one, right?

 

[Irvrobinson]

Your way or the highway?

It is legal. You don't have to like it and no one is forced to have one, right?

While I vote pro-choice, because I don't think the government should be dictating to women what they do with their own bodies, I definitely see the pro-life perspective. To many people of faith, abortion is akin to murder, and allowing millions of them to occur is akin to allowing genocide. Personally, I would like to see limitations on abortion, like making it illegal to use abortion for gender selection, but it seems to be a discussion that can't be started, much like limitations on gun ownership. It does seem odd that many of the loudest detractors of abortion are also some of the loudest advocates for the broadest interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.

 

[Trell]

not at all, my 'deep thinking' revolves around running my business so I can responsibly pay for my health care insurance .........

You still have not answered my question of how many of those 25+ millions are without health coverage due to their own stupidity / neglect, in your opinion.

 

[shadyJ]

I'll tell you why, God loves the unborn.

Sorry to be the one to break this to you, but god isn't a big fan of the unborn. Stillborn fetuses, major deformaties in fetuses, miscarriages; god is pretty metal. The vast majority of fertilized eggs do not make it to actual birth. God is ruthless, and we owe it to god to be just as ruthless.

 

[NINaudio]

Sorry to be the one to break this to you, but god isn't a big fan of the unborn. Stillborn fetuses, major deformaties in fetuses, miscarriages; god is pretty metal. The vast majority of fertilized eggs do not make it to actual birth. God is ruthless, and we owe it to god to be just as ruthless.

I was trying to get to this, but he doesn't want to talk to me any more. Not to mention that if you're Catholic, you think that unbaptized fetuses/miscarriages don't even go to heaven. That doesn't seem very loving to me.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Sorry to be the one to break this to you, but god isn't a big fan of the unborn. Stillborn fetuses, major deformaties in fetuses, miscarriages; god is pretty metal. The vast majority of fertilized eggs do not make it to actual birth. God is ruthless, and we owe it to god to be just as ruthless.

And to think sometimes I worry about being politically incorrect. If I am again, I'm going to respond with a link to this post.

 

[shadyJ]

I was trying to get to this, but he doesn't want to talk to me any more. Not to mention that if you're Catholic, you think that unbaptized fetuses/miscarriages don't even go to heaven. That doesn't seem very loving to me.

God? Loving? Pfsh! God is cruel beyond all measure. Look at the state of the world since the beginning of time: conflict and chaos reigns. God despises his earthly creations, and rightfully so! And if people were totally honest with themselves, they would acknowledge the fact that they couldn't respect a loving god anyway. A true god would inspire fear all the way down to the core of your being; only such an entity is worthy of worship. Your mewling 'loving' god is only a projection of your love for weakness, and the idea of such a god makes me nauseous!