AV Receivers and external amp.

[Helier Felipe]

Hi everyone,
I am contemplating purchasing an external amplifier for my Home Theater. I am not interested in going louder per se, instead looking for perhaps higher quality sound...the holy grail. My room is small and my Aventage 1060 is using bass magt. at 80 hz all around plus 2 small subs. The speakers are NHT C3 mains, Classic center and Classic 1 rears as well as their small Atmos speakers. The Yammy plays plenty loud, so brute power is not needed, perhaps more finesse? What say you folks?
I do not want to waste money at this point of my life, but one always wonders.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd say save your money if the avr gets you cleanly to where you listen now. If you want to get higher quality sound get higher quality speakers perhaps....

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah, save your money. Adding amps won't magically improve the sound quality of your system.

I think the Yamaha's voltage gain is about 28dB like most AVRs. If you get an amp with a higher voltage gain (like 30-34dB), then it will sound louder at the same volume knob dial. Some people mistake this louder sound for better sound quality.

Is there anything specific that you would like to enhance? like more bass?

 

[Gmoney]

I made that Mistake thinking adding amps would Improve my sound quality, Better Speaker’s is where it’s at. I had 5 amps at one time sold them all off.

 

[Helier Felipe]

Thanks fellas, had a feeling you were going to say this. In truth I am not sure what I was aiming for. Recently I have had to add hearing aids to my old body and the whole equation has gone bonkers. The hearing aids now have three settings one for normal conversation one for crowded places and at my insistence one for music only. It's all a bit much.

 

[j_garcia]

An amp will achieve higher sound levels with clarity. So basically, the sound will be the same sound you have now, just with the ability to go louder. Louder and "better" are not the same thing. Better sound usually means listening to some new speakers.

 

[Verdinut]

An amp will achieve higher sound levels with clarity. So basically, the sound will be the same sound you have now, just with the ability to go louder. Louder and "better" are not the same thing. Better sound usually means listening to some new speakers.

The OP mentioned that he didn't want to play his system any louder. Unless his Aventage 1060 distorts which I doubt in his small room, there wouldn't be any SQ improvement by using external amplification.
I agree with you in that better sound could be obtained with better speakers.

 

[David Harper]

all excellent replies. In an audiophile forum like stereophile the responses would be that a separate amp would have "better" (whatever that means) sound quality. Not true. I have a Yammy Aventage AVR so I thought a good amp would improve the sound so I bought a Schiit Vidar amp. No improvement. I think I wasted my money. My speakers are Magnepan LRS (little ribbon speakers). I've got the AVR pre-outs feeding the Vidar. Oh well. At least I thought the Vidar would be more stable driving the low-impedance Maggies but even that didn't happen. If I push the volume the Vidar overheats and shuts down just like the Yammy did. There is so much audiophile B.S. it's unbelievable. One audiophile even told me to get a separate pre-amp because, he said, the pre-amp in the AVR isn't good enough. Really? Pre-amp sound quality????? The system is quite capable of playing loud enough for me. The Maggie speakers sound amazing. I've never heard anything like them. Instead of projecting sound out the front like a box speaker the Maggies are like an open window. And they don't have the high-frequency distortion that I seem to hear from every dynamic tweeter in a box. The only drawback is they can't play as loud as conventional box speakers and they require a good powered sub(which I have).

 

[Gmoney]

all excellent replies. In an audiophile forum like stereophile the responses would be that a separate amp would have "better" (whatever that means) sound quality. Not true. I have a Yammy Aventage AVR so I thought a good amp would improve the sound so I bought a Schiit Vidar amp. No improvement. I think I wasted my money. My speakers are Magnepan LRS (little ribbon speakers). I've got the AVR pre-outs feeding the Vidar. Oh well. At least I thought the Vidar would be more stable driving the low-impedance Maggies but even that didn't happen. If I push the volume the Vidar overheats and shuts down just like the Yammy did. There is so much audiophile B.S. it's unbelievable. One audiophile even told me to get a separate pre-amp because, he said, the pre-amp in the AVR isn't good enough. Really? Pre-amp sound quality????? The system is quite capable of playing loud enough for me. The Maggie speakers sound amazing. I've never heard anything like them. Instead of projecting sound out the front like a box speaker the Maggies are like an open window. And they don't have the high-frequency distortion that I seem to hear from every dynamic tweeter in a box. The only drawback is they can't play as loud as conventional box speakers and they require a good powered sub(which I have).

photo of your setup please! Maggie’s are Pretty awesome speakers

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think many of us own multiple amps anyway regardless of whether the amps improve the sound quality.

If you want to try an amp for yourself, perhaps you could borrow an amp somewhere. Then you will know for yourself.

Just keep one very important thing in mind - when comparing, you must level match the volume since a louder volume will make it seem like the sound is better when it is just louder.

My view is if you own an AVR, then don't get an external amp.

Of course, if you own a separates AVP (pre-pro), then you have to get an external amp.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think this might be the ONLY forum where about 50% of the members don't believe that all amps have a sound signature of their own and that adding an amp usually won't improve the SQ.

On most forums I've seen, it's about 5% vs 95% in favor of "adding amps will improve SQ 100%".

This is one of the reasons AH is pretty much the ONLY forum that I frequent.

 

[David Harper]

I'm not the most tech-savvy guy so I've never known how to get a picture onto an on-line forum. Maybe someone here can help me with this. Also the camera in my phone isn't very good so I'm not sure it would be worth the effort. As far as power amp sound quality I suppose it's possible that if I were able to compare the Yammy to the Vidar with an A-B comparison switching back and forth I might hear a slight difference. But that would be way too much screwing around to accomplish. The Yammy is 95wpc into 8 ohms. The Vidar is 100 wpc into 8 ohms and 200 wpc into 4 ohms. The Maggie's impedance dips down to approx. 2 ohms at certain frequencies. Both the Yammy and the Vidar run very warm when driving the Maggies. If you like rock music loud the maggies are probably not the speaker for you. It's a trade off; sound quality vs. dynamic power and punch. My previous speakers were Polk floor standers. They were capable of awesome power and volume. So the maggies took some getting used to for me. BTW I love the Aventage AVR. I use it for everything; TV, CD, blu ray, netflix, youtube, internet radio and IPOD via USB. One more thing about the maggies; they're very intolerant of low-quality source material. I used to listen to a lot of youtube music videos which sounded real good on my Polk speakers. They sound like sh!t on the maggies. Low rez mp3.

 

[everettT]

I'm not the most tech-savvy guy so I've never known how to get a picture onto an on-line forum. Maybe someone here can help me with this. Also the camera in my phone isn't very good so I'm not sure it would be worth the effort. As far as power amp sound quality I suppose it's possible that if I were able to compare the Yammy to the Vidar with an A-B comparison switching back and forth I might hear a slight difference. But that would be way too much screwing around to accomplish. The Yammy is 95wpc into 8 ohms. The Vidar is 100 wpc into 8 ohms and 200 wpc into 4 ohms. The Maggie's impedance dips down to approx. 2 ohms at certain frequencies. Both the Yammy and the Vidar run very warm when driving the Maggies. If you like rock music loud the maggies are probably not the speaker for you. It's a trade off; sound quality vs. dynamic power and punch. My previous speakers were Polk floor standers. They were capable of awesome power and volume. So the maggies took some getting used to for me. BTW I love the Aventage AVR. I use it for everything; TV, CD, blu ray, netflix, youtube, internet radio and IPOD via USB. One more thing about the maggies; they're very intolerant of low-quality source material. I used to listen to a lot of youtube music videos which sounded real good on my Polk speakers. They sound like sh!t on the maggies. Low rez mp3.

For the avatar you need a photo resize (online services are free) . Just have to resize to the defined size.

Im speculating but I'd say the Maggie's low impedance is at the upper end of the response curve. All the MLs are up high where little power is required, again speculation.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

all excellent replies. In an audiophile forum like stereophile the responses would be that a separate amp would have "better" (whatever that means) sound quality. Not true. I have a Yammy Aventage AVR so I thought a good amp would improve the sound so I bought a Schiit Vidar amp. No improvement. I think I wasted my money. My speakers are Magnepan LRS (little ribbon speakers). I've got the AVR pre-outs feeding the Vidar. Oh well. At least I thought the Vidar would be more stable driving the low-impedance Maggies but even that didn't happen. If I push the volume the Vidar overheats and shuts down just like the Yammy did. There is so much audiophile B.S. it's unbelievable. One audiophile even told me to get a separate pre-amp because, he said, the pre-amp in the AVR isn't good enough. Really? Pre-amp sound quality????? The system is quite capable of playing loud enough for me. The Maggie speakers sound amazing. I've never heard anything like them. Instead of projecting sound out the front like a box speaker the Maggies are like an open window. And they don't have the high-frequency distortion that I seem to hear from every dynamic tweeter in a box. The only drawback is they can't play as loud as conventional box speakers and they require a good powered sub(which I have).

When you say "Push the Volume", do you mean a volume that is too loud for you to listen to? Dangerously loud volume that could damage your hearing?

 

[David Harper]

When you say "Push the Volume", do you mean a volume that is too loud for you to listen to? Dangerously loud volume that could damage your hearing?

not quite that loud. Like just good and loud but not uncomfortably so. But I'm an old guy and my hearing is probably somewhat insensitive so maybe 30 years ago the maggies would've been plenty loud.

 

[Helier Felipe]

Thanks to each and every one of you!.
I have given up on the extra amp idea already. Instead I have ordered some nice speaker stands from Crutchfield and plan to let those speakers breathe a bit more which is of course recommended by almost everyone. They have been living in an entertainment center for convenience and wife acceptance factor, however I am now a widower and have no one but myself to please , so what the heck. Again thanks!!

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks to each and every one of you!.
I have given up on the extra amp idea already. Instead I have ordered some nice speaker stands from Crutchfield and plan to let those speakers breathe a bit more which is of course recommended by almost everyone. They have been living in an entertainment center for convenience and wife acceptance factor, however I am now a widower and have no one but myself to please , so what the heck. Again thanks!!

I almost mentioned making sure your speakers/room were set up well, as that is definitely more important than the electronics. If you post pics of your room we might be able to make some suggestions.

@David Harper if you sign up for tapatalk to use this forum, it's a bit easier to upload photos IME, and if you want to upload using the website on your Windows pc just take the too-big file, right click on it (the file, not the actual picture) and it'll bring up a menu, select edit, which takes you to paint and there's a resizing option there, I usually go 25-35% and works fine, save that resized photo. To actually put it in the post use the attach files tab at the bottom of the post area on the left....

 

[Helier Felipe]

not quite that loud. Like just good and loud but not uncomfortably so. But I'm an old guy and my hearing is probably somewhat insensitive so maybe 30 years ago the maggies would've been plenty loud.

Old age is hard on us all. After getting hearing aids I have discovered that I was missing most of the treble in music. No speaker is going to give that back to you without making listening very hard to anyone else in the room. I was a drummer for a long time and played rather loud. That took its toll on my ears, I wish I had taken better care of them.

 

[David Harper]

Old age is hard on us all. After getting hearing aids I have discovered that I was missing most of the treble in music. No speaker is going to give that back to you without making listening very hard to anyone else in the room. I was a drummer for a long time and played rather loud. That took its toll on my ears, I wish I had taken better care of them.

I read that Pete Townsend has a perpetual ringing in his ears so bad it was threatening his sanity. Due to not using hearing protection when he was in his band. Also I understand the most common reason for suicide among combat veterans is the same problem as a result of shells going off nearby. I also have this problem (to a lesser degree) as a result of working around loud machinery my whole life. I've learned to tune it out.

 

[Gmoney]

I read that Pete Townsend has a perpetual ringing in his ears so bad it was threatening his sanity. Due to not using hearing protection when he was in his band. Also I understand the most common reason for suicide among combat veterans is the same problem as a result of shells going off nearby. I also have this problem (to a lesser degree) as a result of working around loud machinery my whole life. I've learned to tune it out.

I have Tendinitis, which is ringing or buzzing of the inner ear. Some days it’s really bad other days not so much and some not many it’s very little or golden Silence. There’s no Cure for Tendinitis.