Can a High End Receiver compete with High End Separates

[HTfreak2004]

One thing is for certain, I will use my sub amp to power the sub I came with before I’ll hook it up to any AVR regardless if it’s inside the cabinet or sitting in the attic with speaker wire running throughout my house and the house next door to connect to the woofer!

 

[Pogre]

One thing is for certain, I will use my sub amp to power the sub I came with before I’ll hook it up to any AVR regardless if it’s inside the cabinet or sitting in the attic with speaker wire running throughout my house and the house next door to connect to the woofer!

Haw?

 

[lovinthehd]

One thing is for certain, I will use my sub amp to power the sub I came with before I’ll hook it up to any AVR regardless if it’s inside the cabinet or sitting in the attic with speaker wire running throughout my house and the house next door to connect to the woofer!

Yeah, whut?

 

[HTfreak2004]

My point is we all use separates if your powering your sub with an amp external to your AVR or processor your in the club of separates!

Nuf said I hope

 

[lovinthehd]

My point is we all use separates if your powering your sub with an amp external to your AVR or processor your in the club of separates!

Nuf said I hope

Not really but okay. Separates traditionally has meant separation of amp/tuner/preamp. Is your sub active or passive if the amp isn't inside the sub box?

 

[HTfreak2004]

Not really but okay. Separates traditionally has meant separation of amp/tuner/preamp. Is your sub active or passive if the amp isn't inside the sub box?

Not according to AcuDefTechGuy

 

[HTfreak2004]

No need to choose or argue, nice to have both, compare/measure them and enjoy them..

Both can do a great job until one can’t!
Due diligence is up to the consumer in this snake oil of an industry!

If your ears bleed hopefully it’s not from distortion!

As the old sayings go,
“A man convinced against his will...will be of the same opinion still!

“If you try to please everyone eventually you end up losing your ass”

“A man has the right to be as wrong as he chooses to be”

“For the greatest cause of all human discord can be founded upon a man’s unwillingness to give up his Right to be right!”

“Where two or more people haven’t a clue what they are talking about then anything is possible!”

Lastly

You can’t always get what you want but if you try sometimes you get what ya need!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

can you name me one sub manufacturer that uses a class A/B or class A amp inside their speaker ? I cant .....

So, unless you can compare like classification of amplifier topology in AVR vs. powered speakers your argument is meaningless ...........

The only thing I was debating was whether adding ANY Amp (all classes) and Electronics into another component (whether it’s a preamp, AVP, speaker, sub) would theoretically increase Heat Production and Complexity.

Question: with all things being equal, which component is theoretically more complex and has potentially more heat production?

A. Passive subwoofer without any internal crossovers, amps, DSP, and EQ

B. Active subwoofer with internal crossovers, amps, DSP, and EQ

 

[lovinthehd]

The only thing I was debating was whether adding ANY Amp (all classes) and Electronics into another component (whether it’s a preamp, AVP, speaker, sub) would theoretically increase Heat Production and Complexity.

Don't forget vibration?

 

[HTfreak2004]

My anp

Not according to AcuDefTechGuy

My sub is active(amp internal)
My point was it’s an external amp in regards to an AVR.

You know one of the reasons we build separates is about weight!

How would you like to move say a 60 lb
5 ch amp if it was combined with a 30 lb pre/pro. That’s 90 lbs of badass brother.

My sub weighs 105 lbs and retailed for 4500.00 Canadian. Luckily I purchased it on Black Friday for half price!

I cannot safely carry this unit about myself and quite honestly that’s a stupid idea if I drop it falling down a stair case!

A 90 lb AVR will bust most people’s glass entertainment shelf if they use such like in my main living room rated for 50lbs per shelf other than the display shelf.

My current rack would not house an AVR with that size of chassis nor do I want that sort of workout. My 5 ch amp is 60 lbs and honestly it’s a pain in my ass to move, no love loss though

We can all add are .02 here till we return to the dust but there will always be an over abundance of people that just want to have a basic dare I say HTib and to them that’s all they will ever buy!

This is our passion, how can someone who just wants basic entertainment and doesn’t share this passion appreciate anything that could cost 2-3 months of life savings to improve upon?

You and I know eventually we will reach an acceptable limit for cost vs quality whatever that amount is and that’s really the end of the road for this passion.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Don't forget vibration?

I didn’t want to push my luck.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

My anp

My sub is active(amp internal)
My point was it’s an external amp in regards to an AVR.

You know one of the reasons we build separates is about weight!

How would you like to move say a 60 lb
5 ch amp if it was combined with a 30 lb pre/pro. That’s 90 lbs of badass brother.

My sub weighs 105 lbs and retailed for 4500.00 Canadian. Luckily I purchased it on Black Friday for half price!

I cannot safely carry this unit about myself and quite honestly that’s a stupid idea if I drop it falling down a stair case!

A 90 lb AVR will bust most people’s glass entertainment shelf if they use such like in my main living room rated for 50lbs per shelf other than the display shelf.

My current rack would not house an AVR with that size of chassis nor do I want that sort of workout. My 5 ch amp is 60 lbs and honestly it’s a pain in my ass to move, no love loss though

We can all add are .02 here till we return to the dust but there will always be an over abundance of people that just want to have a basic dare I say HTib and to them that’s all they will ever buy!

This is our passion, how can someone who just wants basic entertainment and doesn’t share this passion appreciate anything that could cost 2-3 months of life savings to improve upon?

You and I know eventually we will reach an acceptable limit for cost vs quality whatever that amount is and that’s really the end of the road for this passion.

And your sub could’ve been 65LBS instead of 105LBS without the internal amp.

 

[HTfreak2004]

The only thing I was debating was whether adding ANY Amp (all classes) and Electronics into another component (whether it’s a preamp, AVP, speaker, sub) would theoretically increase Heat Production and Complexity.

Anytime multiple Heat producing sources are placed within the same chassis the sum total of all there heat will be greater than if they were in there own individual chassis.

Look one person in a 10x10 room with a window on all 4 sides but closed will produce x amount of heat. Add another body and heat output is for simple terms now double. Eventually if we add enough bodies we would have to open a window(ventilation) to maintain room temperature at for eg. 80 degrees.

Over time all 4 windows need to be open to maintain that 80 degree room temperature. If we exercise now(like an amp that increases output we will need say a fan to force the air circulation otherwise with little to no air movement the windows will simply fail to alleviate the internal room temperature to stay at 80 degrees.

It should be stated that if an amp is integrated with a processor it still only adds its own amount of heat equal to the same as if it were separate but because it’s combined it cannot cool as quickly and potentially with enough output may overheat.

I’m saying integrated or not the amp by simple terms produces an equal amount of heat for its job but outside heat sources impact the amps ability to remain at that production output. It’s cooling is being interfered with by another heat producing source and that is all!

 

[BriReeves629]

Not according to AcuDefTechGuy

I have two passive in-wall subs. I didn’t choose them because I was worried about heat. I believe that was AcuDefGuy’s point. Choosing separates because of fear that your AVR might overheat makes about as much sense as choosing a passive sub for the same reason. At least in this day and age.

 

[BriReeves629]

Anytime multiple Heat producing sources are placed within the same chassis the sum total of all there heat will be greater than if they were in there own individual chassis.

Look one person in a 10x10 room with a window on all 4 sides but closed will produce x amount of heat. Add another body and heat output is for simple terms now double. Eventually if we add enough bodies we would have to open a window(ventilation) to maintain room temperature at for eg. 80 degrees.

Over time all 4 windows need to be open to maintain that 80 degree room temperature. If we exercise now(like an amp that increases output we will need say a fan to force the air circulation otherwise with little to no air movement the windows will simply fail to alleviate the internal room temperature to stay at 80 degrees.

It should be stated that if an amp is integrated with a processor it still only adds its own amount of heat equal to the same as if it were separate but because it’s combined it cannot cool as quickly and potentially with enough output may overheat.

I’m saying integrated or not the amp by simple terms produces an equal amount of heat for its job but outside heat sources impact the amps ability to remain at that production output. It’s cooling is being interfered with by another heat producing source and that is all!

If only there were a way for these amp/processor designers to measure the heat dispersed by all of the components to insure that they won’t affect the components in the same chassis. Or even better if there was a way to encase the heat producing components to protect the other components...

 

[HTfreak2004]

[

I have two passive in-wall subs. I didn’t choose them because I was worried about heat. I believe that was AcuDefGuy’s point. Choosing separates because of fear that your AVR might overheat makes about as much sense as choosing a passive sub for the same reason. At least in this day and age.

For the record I wasn’t suggesting anything towards what you or I should choose in today’s day and age!

Personally I couldn’t care less if separates run cooler or hotter or upside down or a 45 degree angle or suspended from a chain who really cares?

I only care about sitting back and enjoying my purchase. Hell at the time of purchase I didn’t think about heat just getting er home and setting er up to enjoy myself!

This whole thread is a hoot really as have been many before it. I say enjoy what ya got cause somewhere some engineer is cooking up a product for his/her manufacturer to swallow up our money since keeping up with the Jones’s is the name of the game RIGHT.

Not for me, not now nor later. All I ever set out to do was blow my Dads system out of the water and ya know I over reached that goal by a country mile. I can’t even play at reference level because with everything level matched and set at flat -20 is freakishly badass. I sometimes go louder to out freakish my self but only once in awhile!

 

[BriReeves629]

[

For the record I wasn’t suggesting anything towards what you or I should choose in today’s day and age!

Personally I couldn’t care less if separates run cooler or hotter or upside down or a 45 degree angle or suspended from a chain who really cares?

I only care about sitting back and enjoying my purchase. Hell at the time of purchase I didn’t think about heat just getting er home and setting er up to enjoy myself!

This whole thread is a hoot really as have been many before it. I say enjoy what ya got cause somewhere some engineer is cooking up a product for his/her manufacturer to swallow up our money since keeping up with the Jones’s is the name of the game RIGHT.

Not for me, not now nor later. All I ever set out to do was blow my Dads system out of the water and ya know I over reached that goal by a country mile. I can’t even play at reference level because with everything level matched and set at flat -20 is freakishly badass. I sometimes go louder to out freakish my self but only once in awhile!

The enjoyment of good audio is our common thread for sure. And you are absolutely right. What matters most is how each of us enjoy our systems, but I’m a sucker for a good debate. I got that from my Dad!

 

[HTfreak2004]

Well the wife just scorned me for rattling the upstairs doors from my basement man cave. I chuckled and told her, “dear it’s at -20 I can’t help it that Godzilla is such a badass and makes everyone feel his presence!”

So off went the movie until tomorrow. I’ll get through it by the end of the week not going to forsake a single scene of sub atomic bass

 

[lovinthehd]

Well the wife just scorned me for rattling the upstairs doors from my basement man cave. I chuckled and told her, “dear it’s at -20 I can’t help it that Godzilla is such a badass and makes everyone feel his presence!”

So off went the movie until tomorrow. I’ll get through it by the end of the week not going to forsake a single scene of sub atomic bass

It's good to be single Hope she makes it up to ya, tho!

 

[HTfreak2004]

Well

It's good to be single Hope she makes it up to ya, tho!

I waited to long to continue watching it. Kids in bed usually by 8:30 est and she doesn’t want them having problems falling asleep.

It cool though. She watched Aquaman, Equalizer 2 and Venom with me and said it’s totally different in the room then being upstairs! Stupid sub floor is one sheet of 5/8 plywood and hardwood on top in main living room. All the other floors have double 5/8 plywood to reduce creeks except that living room floor. I have the ceiling insulated to deaden the sound and the walls.

Let’s face it subs like to make there presence know. Hard to contain all that pressure.

The diaphragmatic effect he he, luv it.