Can a High End Receiver compete with High End Separates

[Mikado463]

Pioneer AVRs have amps are class D. Does this now make the arguement more relative?

yes, as I said, class of amplification need be known for the difference in heat generating characteristics.

 

[BriReeves629]

Well I am about to put this to the test. I was gifted an Onkyo TX-601 that I will use in my bedroom to power a pair of DIY 4 ohm speakers I am building from a kit.

 

[JerryLove]

can someone please tell me if a high end receiver like a marantz sr8012 or a denon x8500h can compete in audio quality with an onkyo m5000r power connected to a p3000r pre amp?
let´s imagine we would connect both to a good pair of speakers, would we be able to tell a diference if we did a blind test?

It's worse than that.

A low end receiver can compete with high-end separates for audio quality.

 

[JerryLove]

If the sound quality is the same then why pay triple the price for high end separates? When you could get a flagship or high end receiver.

Because they can.

Once upon a time, several decades ago, BMW raised the price of all of their cars by something like $5k. Sales went up because the brand was "more exclusive". Nothing was changed, and they didn't raise the price in Europe.

Go find a $10k purse and tell me if it's really better than a $200 purse.

There are some things that force costs up on separates. More materials in general (two bits rather than one), lower volume of manufacture, and yes, often bigger / more high-end components.

But do they *sound* better? Not generally, no.

You can use separate amps with most good high end Avr .... so why not do both ???

I do.

My external amps are fed from an AVR. They are simply too cheap and too available to do anything else.

 

[Kingnoob]

Because they can.

Once upon a time, several decades ago, BMW raised the price of all of their cars by something like $5k. Sales went up because the brand was "more exclusive". Nothing was changed, and they didn't raise the price in Europe.

Go find a $10k purse and tell me if it's really better than a $200 purse.

There are some things that force costs up on separates. More materials in general (two bits rather than one), lower volume of manufacture, and yes, often bigger / more high-end components.

But do they *sound* better? Not generally, no.

I do.

My external amps are fed from an AVR. They are simply too cheap and too available to do anything else.

Are separates significantly more costly?? Avr better for poorer audiophiles??
Separate should last longer if one device fails just replace it not everything...:
Monoblocks are king but you can use them with most high end Avr .

I’m lost on this topic like a deer In headlights... or a yeti in the tropics no snow ️
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JerryLove]

Are separates significantly more costly??

Generally yes.

Avr better for poorer audiophiles??

Anyone with a budget.

Separate should last longer if one device fails just replace it not everything...:

In theory yes. In practice: not that useful.

The higher cost of the separates makes either half at least as expensive as an AVR.

 

[BriReeves629]

To further prove this point, try pricing out Integrated Amps vs Stereo Receivers. Then, look at the differences between the two. This hobby is really full of a lot of Snake Oil...

What I have learned is the majority of your $$ should go toward speakers. AVR, Integrated, Stereo Receivers... doesn’t really matter as long as the component has enough power/ impedance to drive the speakers you like and has the features you need (Digital, Analog, Phono, etc.) for what you plan to use it for. Do your research, some of the more costly separates actually have less features.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

To further prove this point, try pricing out Integrated Amps vs Stereo Receivers. Then, look at the differences between the two. This hobby is really full of a lot of Snake Oil...

What I have learned is the majority of your $$ should go toward speakers. AVR, Integrated, Stereo Receivers... doesn’t really matter as long as the component has enough power/ impedance to drive the speakers you like and has the features you need (Digital, Analog, Phono, etc.) for what you plan to use it for. Do your research, some of the more costly separates actually have less features.

I think most people would say "Snake Oil" is more related to wires, cables, power cords, etc.

But separates like Integrated Amps, Pre-pros, and Amps are more about your personal preference in the hobby.

There's no right/wrong in absolute terms. Sure, it makes more sense to spend most of your money for the speakers/subs or at least equal amount of money for speakers/subs vs electronics.

But some people feel that their speakers already sound as good as it gets, so they now want to spend big money on electronics - even if the electronics cost a lot more than their current speakers.

Who's to argue that their current speakers don't sound as good to them as other speakers that cost $30,000?

This is a HOBBY. It's not just about enough power. It's also about getting what you desire and other intangibles.

Personally, I see no point of Integrated Amps, Amps, DACs, AVRs or Pre-pros that cost $4K or more.

Some people think it's crazy to spend big money on JVC projectors or building PCs that cost $4K.

Everyone is different.

 

[BriReeves629]

I think most people would say "Snake Oil" is more related to wires, cables, power cords, etc.

But separates like Integrated Amps, Pre-pros, and Amps are more about your personal preference in the hobby.

There's no right/wrong in absolute terms. Sure, it makes more sense to spend most of your money for the speakers/subs or at least equal amount of money for speakers/subs vs electronics.

But some people feel that their speakers already sound as good as it gets, so they now want to spend big money on electronics - even if the electronics cost a lot more than their current speakers.

Who's to argue that their current speakers don't sound as good to them as other speakers that cost $30,000?

This is a HOBBY. It's not just about enough power. It's also about getting what you desire and other intangibles.

Personally, I see no point of Integrated Amps, DACs, and some other things. But everyone is different.

This is very true. Some of these separates look really cool. They may not perform better than a lower priced alternative, but you are right about preference vs basic functionality. A Ford Fusion is all you really need to get to and from, but a Mustang looks much better and is funner to drive. I may not need a $10k McIntosh setup to get good sound, but I wouldn’t turn it down on principle...

 

[John Parks]

This is very true. Some of these separates look really cool. They may not perform better than a lower priced alternative, but you are right about preference vs basic functionality. A Ford Fusion is all you really need to get to and from, but a Mustang looks much better and is funnier to drive. I may not need a $10k McIntosh setup to get good sound, but I wouldn’t turn it down on principle...

They do drive funny!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

This is very true. Some of these separates look really cool. They may not perform better than a lower priced alternative, but you are right about preference vs basic functionality. A Ford Fusion is all you really need to get to and from, but a Mustang looks much better and is funnier to drive. I may not need a $10k McIntosh setup to get good sound, but I wouldn’t turn it down on principle...

Our desires and interests change all the time.

A few years ago, spending $3,000 on some Universal Media Player (BD/SACD/DVDA) was my standard. Today I would not even spend $300 on a BD player.

A few years ago, spending $7,500 on some Pre-pro was my standard. Today, I wouldn't spend more than $2K on any Pre-pro.

Some people started out with high-end Pre-pros and amps. Now they would be 100% happy with a mid-price AVR.

 

[lovinthehd]

I also wouldn't use snake oil to describe most of the 2ch stuff, altho some overpricing is involved, it's also economies of scale....the sales of such 2ch stuff is just limited and with many much smaller manufacturers than avrs.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

They do drive funny!
View attachment 32719

Fords.....

 

[Mikado463]

A low end receiver can compete with high-end separates for audio quality.

can and does 'can' be two different things !

 

[3db]

A low end receiver does compete with high-end seperates as long as one does not push beyond the power limitations of the AVR.

 

[JerryLove]

can and does 'can' be two different things !

There's no audible difference between any of the AVRs I have here and whatever pre-pro you are looking at unless your pre-pro is coloring sound, or you have an amplification requirement beyond the integrated amp's ability (something I've only seen in a few speakers, but I have seen).

 

[Mikado463]

There's no audible difference between any of the AVRs I have here and whatever pre-pro you are looking at unless your pre-pro is coloring sound, or you have an amplification requirement beyond the integrated amp's ability (something I've only seen in a few speakers, but I have seen).

LOL and here I thought Julian Hirsch was dead ........

 

[lovinthehd]

LOL and here I thought Julian Hirsch was dead ........

Go get 'em golden ears.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Talking about Separates vs AVR is almost like talking about Politics and Religion.

 

[Mikado463]

Go get 'em golden ears.

nah, more like tarnished silver ........