Yamaha CX-A5200 and MX-A5200

P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Gene, what is the distortion at 2Vrms output?
Keep in mind that the ATI amps do have an input selector switch for balanced/unbalanced. So if you use XLR and flip the switch to balanced, you may ("may", because the owner's manual does not say anything about this) need 2X the unbalanced voltage to reach rated output, that is, 2 V per leg = 4 V across the legs.

Gene will have the right answer for sure as he measured one.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Keep in mind that the ATI amps do have an input selector switch for balanced/unbalanced. So if you use XLR and flip the switch to balanced, you may ("may", because the owner's manual does not say anything about this) need 2X the unbalanced voltage to reach rated output, that is, 2 V per leg = 4 V across the legs.

Gene will have the right answer for sure as he measured one.
So a 28dB-Voltage-Gain Amp may need 2V Unbalanced to reach 315W. But the same amp may need 4V Balanced to reach 315W?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
So a 28dB-Voltage-Gain Amp may need 2V Unbalanced to reach 315W. But the same amp may need 4V Balanced to reach 315W?
For some amps, such as Bryston's yes. I am guessing if the ATI amp has a selector, the same would apply. My 4BSSST has such a switch, it works in either position, but according to the manual, I should set it to the lower gain position for XLR input.

ATI says nothing in the manual but you can find out by trying both positions when using XLR. If it sounds much louder in the unbalanced position, then you know the gain is lower in the XLR position.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Gene, what is the distortion at 2Vrms output?
2Vrms is still pretty good at .005% even at 4Vrms it's under .02%. But look at how good the other channels are in comparison. I know I'm picking nits but Yamaha has the capability of better.

CX-A5200-Psweep-THD.JPG


The unbalanced measures better than balanced as seen below.

CX-A5200-Psweep-THD-unbal.JPG
 
Phase 2

Phase 2

Audioholic Chief
For some amps, such as Bryston's yes. I am guessing if the ATI amp has a selector, the same would apply. My 4BSSST has such a switch, it works in either position, but according to the manual, I should set it to the lower gain position for XLR input.

ATI says nothing in the manual but you can find out by trying both positions when using XLR. If it sounds much louder in the unbalanced position, then you know the gain is lower in the XLR position.
PENG, have you and just asking cause I'm curious, given any thought to maybe doing some reviews or test on gear for Gene AH? Your input and your analysis on audio gear are pretty damn good. Up there with the guys Gene has doing gear and reviews for his website. Outside of Gene, Shady J, TLS Guy, KEW, ADTG, I look for you Post and Threads 2nd to Gene's. Not a knock to you Sir, just I find your info very informative and your fact finding up there with Gene's. Now speaker info, TLS Guy (DOC) alone with his knowledge on analog TT kind of rules in my book.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
For some amps, such as Bryston's yes. I am guessing if the ATI amp has a selector, the same would apply. My 4BSSST has such a switch, it works in either position, but according to the manual, I should set it to the lower gain position for XLR input.

ATI says nothing in the manual but you can find out by trying both positions when using XLR. If it sounds much louder in the unbalanced position, then you know the gain is lower in the XLR position.
In the AT2000 and AT3000 Manual, it says Unbalanced Voltage Gain is 34dB and Balanced Voltage Gain is 28dB.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
PENG, have you and just asking cause I'm curious, given any thought to maybe doing some reviews or test on gear for Gene AH? Your input and your analysis on audio gear are pretty damn good. Up there with the guys Gene has doing gear and reviews for his website. Outside of Gene, Shady J, TLS Guy, KEW, ADTG, I look for you Post and Threads 2nd to Gene's. Not a knock to you Sir, just I find your info very informative and your fact finding up there with Gene's. Now speaker info, TLS Guy (DOC) alone with his knowledge on analog TT kind of rules in my book.
I would love to do bench tests for Gene, he seems like a great guy to work for. Problem is, I am in Ontario and can't afford the AP, and no one would send me anything to measure anyway unless AH hires me lol..

I bet TLSGuy can afford the test gear though, or may even own an AP.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
In the AT2000 and AT3000 Manual, it says Unbalanced Voltage Gain is 34dB and Balanced Voltage Gain is 28dB.
Thank you for the info, so it is exactly the same as Bryston's 6 dB difference between thee two. Funny they don't say that in the AT4000/6000 manuals. May be they assume people who own their flag ship class power amps would invariably pair their power amps with preamp/prepros that typically have ample outputs so the "gain structure" options/concerns that @RichB mentioned need not apply .:D:D
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
2Vrms is still pretty good at .005% even at 4Vrms it's under .02%. But look at how good the other channels are in comparison. I know I'm picking nits but Yamaha has the capability of better.

View attachment 30463

The unbalanced measures better than balanced as seen below.

View attachment 30464
It is strange but not surprising to see unbalanced measured better. I remember seeing better measurements for even SNR in a few S&V bench tests in the long past. I understand in this case it is about distortions and most likely for totally different and distinct reason(s). Hopefully you will hear back from Yamaha about the root cause, if not yet..
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
2Vrms is still pretty good at .005% even at 4Vrms it's under .02%. But look at how good the other channels are in comparison. I know I'm picking nits but Yamaha has the capability of better.

View attachment 30463

The unbalanced measures better than balanced as seen below.

View attachment 30464
Probably a good thing that many owners of the CX-A5100/MX-A5000 were skipping the 5200 models and waiting for the 5300 models.

But we are 100% glad that you discovered this non-SOTA measurements on both the CX-A5200 and MX-A5200 so that Yamaha can go back to their engineering and get the 5300 models back to SOTA status! :D
 
Phase 2

Phase 2

Audioholic Chief
Probably a good thing that many owners of the CX-A5100/MX-A5000 were skipping the 5200 models and waiting for the 5300 models.

But we are 100% glad that you discovered this non-SOTA measurements on both the CX-A5200 and MX-A5200 so that Yamaha can go back to their engineering and get the 5300 models back to SOTA status! :D
You would think Yamaha would send Gene their 5300 as a gift. Gene saved Yamaha from maybe a domino effect, not saying their flagship Pre-Pro would crash and burn like poor ole Onkyo's AVR's crashed and burned with HDMI issue. QC is critical to survival of a manufacturers products.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
You would think Yamaha would send Gene their 5300 as a gift. Gene saved Yamaha from maybe a domino effect, not saying their flagship Pre-Pro would crash and burn like poor ole Onkyo's AVR's crashed and burned with HDMI issue. QC is critical to survival of a manufacturers products.
The Balanced Front L/R Output's is about 0.005% THD at 2Vrms (capable of 315W on 28dB Voltage Gain Amps),which is pretty good.

But Gene is doing Yamaha a favor by expecting SOTA - which means 0.005% at 4Vrms.

So yeah, I think Yamaha owes Gene a SOTA CX-A5300. :D
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
The Balanced Front L/R Output's is about 0.005% THD at 2Vrms (capable of 315W on 28dB Voltage Gain Amps),which is pretty good.

But Gene is doing Yamaha a favor by expecting SOTA - which means 0.005% at 4Vrms.

So yeah, I think Yamaha owes Gene a SOTA CX-A5300. :D
Maybe instead of RXA5300 separates, we get a 100 lbs receiver RX-Z13. :)
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Maybe instead of RXA5300 separates, we get a 100 lbs receiver RX-Z13. :)
Umm.....Like......No........... Some of us gotta have "Separates". :cool:

They can have both a 100-LBS $5,500 Z13 (the Z11 was $5,500) and a 33-LBS $2,700 CX-A5300 if they want. :D

Who is going to buy a $5,500 AVR when they can get a SOTA Pre-pro separates for a lot less ? :D
 
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S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Umm.....Like no........... Some of us gotta have "Separates". :cool:

They can have both a 100-LBS $5,500 Z13 (the Z11 was $5,500) and a 33-LBS $2,700 CX-A5300 if they want. :D

Who is going to buy a $5,500 AVR when they can get a SOTA Pre-pro separates for a lot less ? :D
Ya I was just reading thru a few of Gene’s old reviews, including Z1, Z9, and Z11. :)
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Ya I was just reading thru a few of Gene’s old reviews, including Z1, Z9, and Z11. :)
Feeling nostalgic and reminiscing the old days, are we? :D

Yeah, those big AVRs (Yamaha Z11 and Denon 5308) were pretty great.

But I think that was back when the least expensive pre-pro was like $7,500. :eek:

When I bought the Denon AVR-5308 ($5,500), the Denon Pre-pro (AVP-A1) was $7,500.

If I could have gotten the SOTA CX-A5100 for under $2,000 about 9 years ago, it would have been a different story.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Feeling nostalgic and reminiscing the old days, are we? :D

Yeah, those big AVRs (Yamaha Z11 and Denon 5308) were pretty great.

But I think that was back when the least expensive pre-pro was like $7,500. :eek:

When I bought the Denon AVR-5308 ($5,500), the Denon Pre-pro (AVP-A1) was $7,500.

If I could have gotten the SOTA CX-A5100 for under $2,000 about 9 years ago, it would have been a different story.
Ya makes sense. I do wonder what will replace the 3080 since they are waiting an extra year. Will the chassis stay the same?
 
little wing

little wing

Audioholic Chief
Seems like Yamaha puts out a new receiver every year. It might do em some good to slow it down, and wait a year or two for the next one. It's not like they're huge differences from year to year anyways.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Seems like Yamaha puts out a new receiver every year. It might do em some good to slow it down, and wait a year or two for the next one. It's not like they're huge differences from year to year anyways.
I think 2016/2017/2018 are mostly identical. 2015 lineup was lacking Dolby Vision and HLG (only 5100 got update from 2015 lineup).

Not sure if HLG programs will exist in the US anytime soon though. Dolby Vision probably matters to some people. I only have HDR10 on my TV. :)
 
little wing

little wing

Audioholic Chief
I think 2016/2017/2018 are mostly identical. 2015 lineup was lacking Dolby Vision and HLG (only 5100 got update from 2015 lineup).

Not sure if HLG programs will exist in the US anytime soon though. Dolby Vision probably matters to some people. I only have HDR10 on my TV. :)
I agree. My 3060 is ready for Dolby Vision after a firmware update. And I'm pretty sure my Sony TV can handle it, now all I need is some Dolby Vision Content, LOL. I won't hold my breath.. I'm not sure I'd be able to tell the difference on a 65 inch display anyway. 4k and HDR look good though.
 

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