Debating switching from Yamaha to NAD

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That’s whom I’ve bought the Arcam from

Haha, that's funny.

 

[Topmetom2]

I know

 

[sakete]

We expect REW for both YPAO and Dirac.

Yes. SHOW US THE MEASUREMENTS!!!!!!!!

 

[PENG]

But measurements prove nothing right?

 

[PENG]

And that's what I said, damping factor of 10 or higher and you'll be fine. There are very few amps with a damping factor lower than 10. That 10 is a very low bar and most amps/receivers are well above that.

And Dr. Toole doesn't just say stuff, all his claims are backed by actual scientific research. Which is great, as it's objective, which is much more useful than all the subjective reviews and interpretations out there.

Here a short article on it too https://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/damping-factor-effects-on-system-response

Dr. Toole doesn't say much about the importance of electronics such as higher end amps, DACs either. I think his "claims" about DF of 10 being fine is no different than others claim about THD+N of 0.1%, or SN/DR of 80 dB unweighted are fine. It doesn't mean DF or >20, or 40 aren't better. It depends on the situation, i.e. other bottlenecks/weaker links etc. My point is, one can pick and choose, like believing "a very low" bar on one criteria because of what the Dr. said, while not believing in another, because of some other "experts" might have said.

 

[PENG]

Which drivers did you use for your DIY project?

You have to guess.

 

[PENG]

That’s whom I’ve bought the Arcam from

I think it has a nice enough preamp to justify a better DAC than the build in one. Not that I believe there will be audible difference, or not, just doesn't make sense to trade Yammy's ES9006/7 (if you have the RX-A2070, or 2060) for a CS42528 that has lower specs.

 

[Deckard71]

I think it has a nice enough preamp to justify a better DAC than the build in one. Not that I believe there will be audible difference, or not, just doesn't make sense to trade Yammy's ES9006/7 (if you have the RX-A2070, or 2060) for a CS42528 that has lower specs.

Well, I will try both. The loser (to my taste) will go on sale. After 15 years with Yamaha I want to try something different (not Denon or Marantz!!) and also try Dirac room correction

 

[PENG]

Well, I will try both. The loser (to my taste) will go on sale. After 15 years with Yamaha I want to try something different (not Denon or Marantz!!) and also try Dirac room correction

I wasn't suggesting you shouldn't try or actually trade your Yamaha for the Arcam. I meant to say try using a better external DAC to work with the ARCAM, if that's the one you are going to keep. I'll be trying to test out Dirac Live standalone hopefully as early as next week. May be we can compares notes/graphs then.

 

[Deckard71]

I wasn't suggesting you shouldn't try or actually trade your Yamaha for the Arcam. I meant to say try using a better external DAC to work with the ARCAM, if that's the one you are going to keep. I'll be trying to test out Dirac Live standalone hopefully as early as next week. May be we can compares notes/graphs then.

I van try the DAC in the Oppo 203. It sounded the same that the one in Yamaha to me

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I van try the DAC in the Oppo 203. It sounded the same that the one in Yamaha to me

I doubt if anyone can truly hear the difference among any of these DACs unless they have golden ears.

The difference will be the subjective preference among these EQ - Audyssey vs YPAO vs Dirac vs ARC.

 

[PENG]

I van try the DAC in the Oppo 203. It sounded the same that the one in Yamaha to me

Not surprising, the AK4458 in the 203 is very similar to the one in the RX-A2070. It is 5 dB better in THD and 5 dB worse in DR.

 

[sakete]

I doubt if anyone can truly hear the difference among any of these DACs unless they have golden ears.

The difference will be the subjective preference among these EQ - Audyssey vs YPAO vs Dirac vs ARC.

Yep. Don't worry too much about the DAC, it's mainly a spec war, and unless really badly implemented (ie in the circuit, etc) you shouldn't really be able to tell a difference.

As always, speakers are 95% of the sound difference. The rest is EQ and electronics (except if you're using a tube amp, then that will severely alter the sound signature).

 

[Verdinut]

You have to guess.

View attachment 30873



View attachment 30871

It's impossible to guess and even more once you have used some sort of EQ to smooth out the response curve.

 

[PENG]

It's impossible to guess and even more once you have used some sort of EQ to smooth out the response curve.

No EQ used so far, but I plan on trying Dirac on them next week.

 

[Verdinut]

No EQ used so far, but I plan on trying Dirac on them next week.

It's a very good frequency response so far. It will be interesting to know what has been your experience using Dirac.

 

[Deckard71]

No EQ used so far, but I plan on trying Dirac on them next week.

Why would you need Dirac with such a flat curve?

 

[PENG]

Why would you need Dirac with such a flat curve?

I am okay with the 200-20000 Hz range but the 35 to 70 range looks terrible. My KEF R900 and LS50 are in the same room almost side by side and they look terrible too in the mid bass. Audyssey is able to improve that a lot but I only have one AV8801 to use it for one pair so I need Dirac and the CA preamp to dive the DIY pair. The LS50 will have to go as there really is room for a 3 Rd pair and I run out amp/preamps.

 

[Verdinut]

Thanks, the 15, 30, 45 degrees look very good too. I can't tell you what they are yet for 2 reasons. One being I have to glue the back and the port tube tight, finish sanding)staining, and then shorten the wires before plotting graphs for the final product. As it is now I have long wires out the port so the XOs are outside in case I have to do work on them.

With the curves which you provided, the passive crossover design seems to be adequate as we can't see any gross deviation or out of phase issue that would indicate where about is or are the filter frequency(ies). Good work!

 

[PENG]

With the curves which you provided, the passive crossover design seems to be adequate as we can't see any gross deviation or out of phase issue that would indicate where about is or are the filter frequency(ies). Good work!

Thanks, I did not design the XO, just built it. If I were to do it myself, say my next diy pair, I would likely try 2-way, that should be a lot less challenging.