Snake oil alert...

[Pogre]

I can't speak for @killdozzer , but I can speak for myself.
I would hope that if Dr Waldrep came here, anonymously or not, he would find a welcome bunch of enthusiasts that appreciate a knowledgeable opinion. Nobody will agree with him, or anybody else, 100% and some of those difference of opinion might be strong. That's no different than anyone else that wants to be an "expert opinion".

I looked at the website you included when you first mentioned his name. If you think he might get an unwelcome reception based on some of his items of interest, I am not so sure he would. Lots of people here on the AH share HD audio as an interest, multi channel immersive audio as an interest, and other areas on his pages.

I differ in what I listen to and how I choose to listen to it from many of his articles, but I find no fault or need to be critical. He likes different stuff than I do, but many of the AH folks I trade posts with every day also like their music or formats different from mine.

I would hope Dr Waldrep and anybody else that comes to the AH will have a great experience and exchange of ideas and interests. That can be challenging for some. Most people would find it worthwhile I hope.

Plus I'm almost certain that if Dr Waldrep were to post here he wouldn't do it with condescension and insults so I doubt much of a fuss would be made at all. I would assume the good Dr will know how to talk to people without triggering the whole group.

 

[Pogre]

I have to wonder if anyone ever sits back and thinks "I really like the sound from my audio system".

Note that I didn't use 'sound of'.

I do. I'm pretty damned happy with my system now.

 

[killdozzer]

I have to wonder if anyone ever sits back and thinks "I really like the sound from my audio system".

Yeah, you should be the one to say that.

 

[3db]

Yeah, well first item would be to avoid USB connections entirely for your system! No USB connection means that the USB cable is a moot point.

USB is not ideal for audio.

I disagree with your avoidance of USB cables in audio. I use them to connect my local storage devices to Media players and I hear nor see any detrimental effects while listening to music nor watching DVDs ripped to disk. Im using USB2. However, I want to point out that I don't suscribe to any Audiophoolery about cables of any kind.

 

[slipperybidness]

I disagree with your avoidance of USB cables in audio. I use them to connect my local storage devices to Media players and I hear nor see any detrimental effects while listening to music nor watching DVDs ripped to disk. Im using USB2. However, I want to point out that I don't suscribe to any Audiophoolery about cables of any kind.

Ok. You likely have much less experience and thus many fewer problems with USB than me.

I deal with all sorts of cables and interface protocols at my job.

USB connections are BY FAR the least reliable of anything that I deal with! 9 out of 10 cxn problems that I deal with are USB cxns!

My most recent USB failure, once I started digging into it, I found that the equipment has the option for ethernet control, so I swapped to that and problem solved. If I had known that was an option at install, I would have made the vendor use it at install!

 

[slipperybidness]

I disagree with your avoidance of USB cables in audio. I use them to connect my local storage devices to Media players and I hear nor see any detrimental effects while listening to music nor watching DVDs ripped to disk. Im using USB2. However, I want to point out that I don't suscribe to any Audiophoolery about cables of any kind.

For a NAS or other external drive, your options are typically limited to USB anyway. And, this application tends to be less problematic (storage device cxn).

But, I was really referring more along the lines of a USB cxn from a computer to a DAC. That would be my last choice of cxn options!

I would choose optical or digi coax any day instead of USB. Or even better.....I2S protocol!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I²S

@BoredSysAdmin what are your thoughts and experiences for USB vs any other cxn type? In general? For audio?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

For a NAS or other external drive, your options are typically limited to USB anyway. And, this application tends to be less problematic (storage device cxn).

But, I was really referring more along the lines of a USB cxn from a computer to a DAC. That would be my last choice of cxn options!

I would choose optical or digi coax any day instead of USB. Or even better.....I2S protocol!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I²S

@BoredSysAdmin what are your thoughts and experiences for USB vs any other cxn type? In general? For audio?

In general, I trust objective data.
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/04/measurements-usb-cables-for-dacs.html
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/12/measurements-usb-cable-extension-with.html
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2015/05/measurements-usb-hubs-and-8khz-phy.html
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2015/02/measurements-ethernet-cables-and-audio.html
TL;DR: Decent USB cables are just fine for audio usage.

However there are some ancient and terrible usb cables which could cause issues with some cheaper DACs like this one:
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2014/01/demo-measurements-what-does-bad-usb-or.html

 

[slipperybidness]

In general, I trust objective data.
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/04/measurements-usb-cables-for-dacs.html
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/12/measurements-usb-cable-extension-with.html
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2015/05/measurements-usb-hubs-and-8khz-phy.html
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2015/02/measurements-ethernet-cables-and-audio.html
TL;DR: Decent USB cables are just fine for audio usage.

However there are some ancient and terrible usb cables which could cause issues with some cheaper DACs like this one:
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2014/01/demo-measurements-what-does-bad-usb-or.html

OK, I'll give you that, but how about reliability of USB sockets? USB protocols, etc?

I'm saying that my own personal data set says "avoid USB like the plague"

I will qualify it by saying that my work is in INDUSTRIAL settings. But, I've just spent so much time and had so many headaches related to USB that I PREFER to use pretty much anything else.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

OK, I'll give you that, but how about reliability of USB sockets? USB protocols, etc?

I'm saying that my own personal data set says "avoid USB like the plague"
I will qualify it by saying that my work is in INDUSTRIAL settings. But, I've just spent so much time and had so many headaches related to USB that I PREFER to use pretty much anything else.

I'd be lying if I said that I've never encountered issues with usb connectivity, quite the opposite. Especially with higher throughput requirement devices like hd webcams. Windows USB Audio drivers are quite ancient, but that supposed to change with Windows 10 Creators update which brings with it new driver for USB audio 2.0. https://www.petri.com/native-usb-audio-2-0-coming-windows-10

USB is not problem free, all I am saying it could be used successfully for audio applications.
That said, SPDIF is simpler protocol requires much less complications around audio data sending.
Simpler is usually better, but that is a massive generalization.

 

[3db]

Ok. You likely have much less experience and thus many fewer problems with USB than me.

I deal with all sorts of cables and interface protocols at my job.

USB connections are BY FAR the least reliable of anything that I deal with! 9 out of 10 cxn problems that I deal with are USB cxns!

My most recent USB failure, once I started digging into it, I found that the equipment has the option for ethernet control, so I swapped to that and problem solved. If I had known that was an option at install, I would have made the vendor use it at install!

I dont know how much experience you are looking for but I use USB for both my hard drives to media player connections, printers, tablets, and VOIP headsets and again, all have been trouble free.

 

[Bucknekked]

Simpler is usually better, but that is a massive generalization.

Massive generalizations appear to the the specialty of choice on forums.
I think your generalization is safe here.
USB is in use by millions of connections each day. Trouble free? no. Good enough most of the time: yep.
Would I choose HDMI or another connection over USB? Most of the time.
Have I ever had a USB connection problem: no.

Am I an industry expert: no.
Just a newb trying to get by in the desert playing tunes.

 

[highfigh]

Ok. You likely have much less experience and thus many fewer problems with USB than me.

I deal with all sorts of cables and interface protocols at my job.

USB connections are BY FAR the least reliable of anything that I deal with! 9 out of 10 cxn problems that I deal with are USB cxns!

My most recent USB failure, once I started digging into it, I found that the equipment has the option for ethernet control, so I swapped to that and problem solved. If I had known that was an option at install, I would have made the vendor use it at install!

Less reliable than HDMI? I doubt it. If you're not using it at work (sounds like you deal with more IT than AV), be happy. I just went to pick up some parts at one of the distributors that I use and when he saw the 15' HDMI that I had picked, he asked "You really want to use that one?". I said "Apparently not". He explained that a lot of people are having problems with some of the Redmere cables when HDR is involved.

For control, IP is gaining a lot of ground and that's a good thing .

 

[slipperybidness]

Less reliable than HDMI? I doubt it. If you're not using it at work (sounds like you deal with more IT than AV), be happy. I just went to pick up some parts at one of the distributors that I use and when he saw the 15' HDMI that I had picked, he asked "You really want to use that one?". I said "Apparently not". He explained that a lot of people are having problems with some of the Redmere cables when HDR is involved.

For control, IP is gaining a lot of ground and that's a good thing .

Yeah, I'll give you that one too! HDMI is far from perfect, and I have dealt with my share of problems there too!

Just for reference, I'm dealing with ~30 PCs at work that control various pieces of industrial equipment or lab instrumentation. So, I deal with many more interface cxns than the average person. And, likely a bit more demanding applications than average. But, my experience has given me a general dislike for anything USB related.

 

[highfigh]

Yeah, I'll give you that one too! HDMI is far from perfect, and I have dealt with my share of problems there too!

Just for reference, I'm dealing with ~30 PCs at work that control various pieces of industrial equipment or lab instrumentation. So, I deal with many more interface cxns than the average person. And, likely a bit more demanding applications than average. But, my experience has given me a general dislike for anything USB related.

At least it's not Bluetooth. At this point, I think IP control and interface is going to be the best method. Data can be transferred in so many ways and USB can work- the theoretical limits should make it a useful solution but I have to wonder why optical with media converters isn't used more.

 

[Auditor55]

Can I add a $1000 bottle of wine to be classified as "snake oil" even though there's no oil in it?

 

[Bucknekked]

Can I add a $1000 bottle of wine to be classified as "snake oil" even though there's no oil in it?

That's a tough one. I am no wine guy. I know the wine snobs will testify in court that the really expensive stuff is worth every penny and they can taste the difference for sure. Just like audiophiles and little cable stands can do. I have read several articles where folks mixed up expensive stuff with the regular cheesy stuff and depending on which author you read, nobody could reliably identify the expensive stuff. Or, if its in a wine snob magazine, of course they can.

I really have no idea. It certainly has similar hallmarks though

 

[Trell]

That's a tough one. I am no wine guy. I know the wine snobs will testify in court that the really expensive stuff is worth every penny and they can taste the difference for sure. Just like audiophiles and little cable stands can do. I have read several articles where folks mixed up expensive stuff with the regular cheesy stuff and depending on which author you read, nobody could reliably identify the expensive stuff. Or, if its in a wine snob magazine, of course they can.

I really have no idea. It certainly has similar hallmarks though

I don't see myself buying a $1000 bottle of wine any time soon

Wine, though, should also be evaluated along with the type of food one is eating when drinking the wine. Some wines are nice to drink as is, while others are best with some particular type of food. It does not mean that one or the other is better quality, just better suited for the purpose.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Here ya go!

 

[lovinthehd]

Can I add a $1000 bottle of wine to be classified as "snake oil" even though there's no oil in it?

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0914797/

 

[Pogre]

Man, I forgot all about the author of this thread... phew. He was exhausting.