The Dolby Atmos, DTS-X, and Auro-3D Discussion Thread

[Erod]

You mean you're still trying to figure out exactly what and how they Equalized (frequencies and amplitudes).

For example, on my Yamaha, to get "much better bass response", I don't increase the subwoofer levels at all. In fact, I actually DECREASE the subwoofer levels. Instead, I increased the Parametric EQ of the subwoofers from about 40Hz-80Hz by 2dB.

For "Much cleaner and clearer" or crystal clear dialogue, I just increase the Center Speaker level by 3dB.

It's amazing what a few simple adjustments can do for your system!

I've had a lot of receivers and preamps in my day. Two from Marantz, a Denon, a Yamaha, a Sony, a B&K, an Integra, and now this Anthem. My AVM60 is by far my favorite to date. Plays everything sublimely. I already loved it, and now Genesis has taken it yet another level.

Genesis provides all sorts of additional adjustments I haven't even played with yet. Still has room gain, slope orders, max frequency, high pass, etc, but now you can adjust bass tilt, bass boost, boost frequency level, system levels, and a bunch of other stuff.

I'm just playing it as it calibrates with no adjustments, and I'm amazed. We all are.

 

[VonMagnum]

You mean you're still trying to figure out exactly what and how they Equalized (frequencies and amplitudes).

REW would show it pretty quick. It's hard to imagine no one out there has done a before/after comparison. Flat should be flat. It's supposed to make it more even, not crank something up to have more bass or whatever (you adjust the curve on Audyssey yourself AFTER the correction to do that sort of thing).

Increasing separation I see as a comment? I don't know how a room correction system can do that either. Atmos/X are discrete for the main channels. How do you get more discrete that discrete? I'm guessing the actual improvements are something easily measured. Wanting to claim your system is now as good as DIRAC...I can see the appeal in that. Wanting and having are two different things, however. Measurements should verify whether it's actually as good or not. OTOH, I see a lot of people not using things like Audyssey across the full spectrum as it is. Do people really want full room correction or do they just want their bass more even? It seems to be the latter. I see all kinds of reasons given, like you can go above Schroeder without mixing in the secondary reflections (supposedly DIRAC is better at this than Audyssey, however). But does that actually matter or do people just think it does? What's wrong with smooth AVERAGED room response? I used Audyssey with my matrixed/arrayed speakers included and it definitely measured more even with them on than with them off but then it was calibrated to do that. If I had left them off, I'm sure the overall response would be worse with them on. You can't place everything on frequency response, but I think it's by far the most audible thing (i.e. if the bass is louder, it's louder).

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...Wanting to claim your system is now as good as DIRAC...You can't place everything on frequency response...

I'm amazed.

At the end of the day, if it sounds great, then it's great - regardless of which brand you prefer.

It's the same way with preferring NeuralX over DSU.

Can't believe anyone would prefer DSU over NeuralX, but that's okay too. Haha.

 

[Erod]

At the end of the day, if it sounds great, then it's great - regardless of which brand you prefer.

It's the same way with preferring NeuralX over DSU.

Can't believe anyone would prefer DSU over NeuralX, but that's okay too. Haha.

I agree, we should use whatever sounds best to us.

You can Google user reviews to the new Genesis, and they'll echo what I'm saying. I know you're not familiar with me as of yet, but I'm usually ultra critical and un-wowed by things. I think Atmos is vastly overrated to date.

But this preamp and Genesis are the exception for me. Made a big difference.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think Atmos is vastly overrated to date.

Many of us who have been in this hobby for a long time and spent a lot of money have had our shares of skepticism and been-there-done-it attitudes.

I remember when I was buying all kinds of loudspeakers like a fool because everyone was saying this speaker is so much better than that speaker. Same thing with amps and pre-pros - how this pre-pro is so much better than that or how this room correction is so much better than that.

When Atmos first came out in 2013, I brushed it off immediately. I didn't even give it a chance until summer 2018.

I think Atmos is overrated too, but I blame that on the sound mixers.

I still think it can be a lot of fun (when done right).

NeuralX also adds a lot of fun - at least for some of us.

On my Yamaha AV Controller Remote app on my iPad, I toggle between 2 sound modes - STRAIGHT (for Atmos or DTSX) and NeuralX (for everything else).

 

[panteragstk]

I think Atmos is overrated too, but I blame that on the sound mixers.

I still think it can be a lot of fun (when done right).

This. I think the people mixing the sound just aren't using it the way they could/should. I've heard some that just sound great, while others don't even use anything past the 5 bed channels. Not sure what the point of going through the trouble of using Atmos is if you aren't going to go past traditional 5.1.

I think we're expecting an Atmos title to actually use the overhead speakers when in reality they could just be using a normal 5.1 mix, but with the Atmos codec.

 

[Erod]

Many of us who have been in this hobby for a long time and spent a lot of money have had our shares of skepticism and been-there-done-it attitudes.

I remember when I was buying all kinds of loudspeakers like a fool because everyone was saying this speaker is so much better than that speaker. Same thing with amps and pre-pros - how this pre-pro is so much better than that or how this room correction is so much better than that.

When Atmos first came out in 2013, I brushed it off immediately. I didn't even give it a chance until summer 2018.

I think Atmos is overrated too, but I blame that on the sound mixers.

I still think it can be a lot of fun (when done right).

NeuralX also adds a lot of fun - at least for some of us.

On my Yamaha AV Controller Remote app on my iPad, I toggle between 2 sound modes - STRAIGHT (for Atmos or DTSX) and NeuralX (for everything else).

When I first put in my 7.2.4 system, I toyed with both.

DSU was more spacial and broadened the musical stage, but it was subtle with discrete sound. Neural X was more aggressive with discrete sound than DSU, but wasn't as spacial.

Pure personal choice, but you can google around and see that the vast majority of people chose DSU as their standard, as do most of the professional reviewers. Nobody's wrong here though.

With Genesis, I get the same spacial qualities I got before with DSU, but the discrete effects are more prominent like Neural X. I'm not sure if Anthem redesigned the algorithms with that specifically in mind, but it's now kind of the best of both worlds in the DSU/Neural X discussion.

In effect, I now feel like I have them both turned on at the same time.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

This. I think the people mixing the sound just aren't using it the way they could/should. I've heard some that just sound great, while others don't even use anything past the 5 bed channels. Not sure what the point of going through the trouble of using Atmos is if you aren't going to go past traditional 5.1.

I think we're expecting an Atmos title to actually use the overhead speakers when in reality they could just be using a normal 5.1 mix, but with the Atmos codec.

And that's why I think it would be great to have an Atmos-certification (in my dreams ) -- the lazy bastards can't just slap the Atmos and DTSX label on there, throw a few sounds up there and call it a day.

Every time a pterodactyl, dragon, or aircraft flies overhead, I want to hear it panning from one overhead point to another!

 

[Erod]

And that's why I think it would be great to have an Atmos-certification (in my dreams ) -- the lazy bastards can't just slap the Atmos and DTSX label on there, throw a few sounds up there and call it a day.

Every time a pterodactyl, dragon, or aircraft flies overhead, I want to hear it panning from one overhead point to another!

The absolute minimum should be what Star Trek:Into Darkness, Blade Runner 2049, or Jumanji sound mixers did with Atmos.

The Revenant sounds better than almost all Atmos, and it's not even Atmos. Amazing mixing in that movie, and it's just 5.1.

However,, most sub-35 year old people are watching these movies on their phones anyway. Discs sell at anemic levels. Gotta be dispiriting for the sound mixers to a degree.

 

[snakeeyes]

This. I think the people mixing the sound just aren't using it the way they could/should. I've heard some that just sound great, while others don't even use anything past the 5 bed channels. Not sure what the point of going through the trouble of using Atmos is if you aren't going to go past traditional 5.1.

I think we're expecting an Atmos title to actually use the overhead speakers when in reality they could just be using a normal 5.1 mix, but with the Atmos codec.

Well in the CNET article explaining DTSX, this DTS VP is saying there is a time crunch from studios to mix in “as little time as a weekend”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/dts-x-the-dolby-atmos-alternative-explained/


"Mix facilities are really concentrated on cost and speed now, more than ever, so being able to drop something in and produce a publishable mix quickly is their number one concern," said David McIntyre, senior vice president of corporate strategy, standards and business development at DTS.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The absolute minimum should be what Star Trek:Into Darkness, Blade Runner 2049, or Jumanji sound mixers did with Atmos.

Blade Runner 2049 is among my favorite Atmos mix.

But I didn’t realize ST Into Darkness is a great Atmos. Is it as good as BR 2049 in terms of the overhead sound effects?

 

[Erod]

Blade Runner 2049 is among my favorite Atmos mix.

But I didn’t realize ST Into Darkness is a great Atmos. Is it as good as BR 2049 in terms of the overhead sound effects?

Yes, it uses the overheads a lot, and is generally a great mix.

 

[VonMagnum]

I seem to recall Star Trek Beyond having pretty good Atmos sound as well.

Jumanji (original movie with Atmos added) probably is still the soundtrack that 'wowed' me the most as I was not expecting it to sound so good. The new Jumaji isn't close in overhead sounds by comparison (but is a more 'fun' movie and Karen Gillan...so hot).

Best DTS:X mixes I've heard so far for overhead use:

Crimson Peak (for sheer weird sounds in a quiet environment coming from everywhere in the room at some point)

Harry Potter movies (everything that could go overhead DOES go overhead and it couldn't happen to a better movie series, really)

Best Atmos Surprise: I'll say it again. Groundhog Day was kind of shocking compared to its old soundtrack. I don't recall a lot of overhead sounds, but damn it was IMMERSIVE compared to the old "do nothing" soundtrack that mostly focused on dialog (the only non-dialog I remember on the old on was the opening song and that Pennsylvania polka song and snippet from Sonny & Cher). This one when Bill Murray goes outside, it sounds like you're outside! I don't know who mixed that remix, but they deserve some props for going out of their way to transform that soundtrack with Atmos compared to the pitiful soundtrack it had before. But if you're expecting helicopters overhead, look elsewhere.

Auro-3D can't miss: Red Tails. Not available in any other immersive format and AWESOME for overhead plane effects and I wasn't bored to death like I was much of the time with Battle of Britain (which did upmix well with Neural X for spitfire flyovers).

 

[Erod]

Other good Atmos tracks:

Hacksaw Ridge

Fury

Oblivion

Coco

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Other good Atmos tracks:

Hacksaw Ridge

Fury

Oblivion

Coco

Agree to all.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

And that's why I think it would be great to have an Atmos-certification (in my dreams ) -- the lazy bastards can't just slap the Atmos and DTSX label on there, throw a few sounds up there and call it a day.

Every time a pterodactyl, dragon, or aircraft flies overhead, I want to hear it panning from one overhead point to another!

Tapatalk crashed right as I hit reply...ugh. I’ll paraphrase myself lol.

Anyway, lazy is an understatement. I agree, I love hearing pterodactyls and choppers panning around up top. But that’s weak. A Disney print track can do that.
What I want is Dolby’s promise of object audio. I want that pterodactyl flying THROUGH my room. I remember reading about a helicopter demo where it would hover IN the room. You could use the demo to see if your tops were set right. Too loud/quiet the chopper would hover higher or lower. Can’t remember where the heck it came from. Also, I wonder if your 16’(?) ceilings haven’t contributed to your mixed “reviews”.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

However,, most sub-35 year old people are watching these movies on their phones anyway. Discs cell at anemic levels. Gotta be dispiriting for the sound mixers to a degree.

Unfortunately I think this is true. Kinda sucks how lazy people are and that we have to get crappy lowest common denominator soundbar mixes...

 

[VonMagnum]

Other good Atmos tracks:
Fury

I just watched Fury for the first time. I have to agree that has EXCELLENT Atmos sound (TONS of overhead stuff). I'd probably put it in the top 10 for Atmos titles. I was going to watch Hacksaw Ridge but the person watching movies with me tonight didn't like Fury (too violent apparently) and doesn't want to watch another war movie.

 

[VonMagnum]

I watched Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol (7.1 TrueHD + Neural X) and it was AWESOME. I had read it had a "perfect 7.1 soundtrack" and I can see why that reviewer would come to that conclusion. It just had ambience all over the place and Neural X definitely pulled some things upward (no direct overhead). I've heard far worse Atmos tracks. There was actually a lot of sounds coming from behind in the movie and in the front wide direction with Neural X. Good movie too.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

DTS NeuralX-

I was watching "Fear the Walking Dead S05E01" last night.

There is a scene where the main characters are standing under a tree that has zombie heads hanging on the branches above them.

The camera is set on the main characters (we don't see the zombie heads now).

As the main characters converse on screen, we hear the Zombie heads growling above us on the overhead speakers.

It is so realistic, creepy as heck, and so cool.

That's what NeuralX can do for us.