Replacing RZ830 Onkyo lost a customer

[Ken32]

I think plenty of people here have had pretty good success with A4L.

@Phase 2 bought a refurbished Yamaha AVR.

My personal opinion is that if I were buying a refurbished AVR, it would be a Yamaha.

A long time ago I bought a refurbished Denon (it was a cheap, I think 1000 series AVR) from another authorized refurbished seller (Damark or something, can't recall name). The AVR was still under warranty when it broke - no VOLUME output to ANY speakers even after hard reset. So I sent it into the Panurgy repair service, which I think is the primary repair service for Denon/Marantz. Cost me like $40 to ship to them in NJ. When I got it back, there was still no Volume output to any speakers. Minutes later, smoke came out of the AVR. So I cut my losses and threw it away.

Sometime later, I bought a few more refurbished Denon - the 4000 AVR series and then a Denon AVP-A1HDCI. I think also from Damark. Both of them were DOA - guess what? NO VOLUME Output (ATI Amps),even though they powered up. So they powered up, but NO VOLUME output. Both of them.

I returned both and got my refunds. I also assumed that both the AVR4000-series and AVP-A1HD came from Panurgy since Panurgy is the primary repair company for all Denon/Marantz.

Then I bought the brand new Denon AVP-A1HDCI.

Fast forward 8 years later. The AVP-A1HDCI broke. Guess what? NO VOLUME Output! Different sources (analog, digital). Different ATI amps. Not again! This No-Volume-Output has been a pain in the a$$ for me.

So I asked Best Buy if they could send it in for repair for me even though it's out of warranty. They said it would charge for shipping - $50, I think.

They sent it to Panurgy. I knew because I called Panurgy and spoke to them while they had my AVP-A1HDCI. They said they had to replace the Audio-Video Circuit Board. It would cost like $950. I said OK.

When I got it back, guess what? Not Again. NO-FREAKING-VOLUME-OUTPUT!!!!!!!!!

Tried all my ATI amps and all speakers. NO Volume output.

So I spoke to the Best Buy manager and he was cool enough to send it back to Panurgy, but this time under the BEST BUY STORE WARRANTY!!!!

Yes, under FULL BEST BUY Warranty! So They could fix it by whatever means necessary! I wouldn't have to pay a DIME since it's now under full Best Buy Store Warranty!

A few weeks later. I got it back. This time, guess what? Not Again! NO VOLUME Output. But that's not all. Now NO HDMI worked. I tried plugging different sources to all the HDMI Inputs. Nothing worked. Analog sources didn't work either.

So not only was Panurgy unable to fix the No-Volume Output, they managed to screw up the HDMI board too.

At this point, I was fed up with Panurgy and Denon altogether.

Some people might understand why I changed to Yamaha after that.

Could just be bad luck. Some guys just don't have the luck.

Wow! that would definitely leave a bad taste for me as well. I feel the same about onkyo now.

 

[Ken32]

I commend you for getting debt free. That's my preference as well, but I simply pay off my credit card in full each month as it's a handy thing to have in several ways. Can't tell you anything about A4L's supplemental policy, while I think I reviewed it several years back never needed it...

It sounds promising in the description. I'd just hate to spend a grand (give or take) on a refurb and have it last just outside the 18 month warranty. Not saying it will or won't but with electronics nothing is guaranteed to last.

 

[mtrycrafts]

....

Could just be bad luck. Some guys just don't have the luck.

That many bad experiences for the same issues is beyond luck.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That many bad experiences for the same issues is beyond luck.

Yeah, but it only happened to me, not a bunch of other people --- at least not a bunch of people reported it that we know of.

However, I am personally convinced that I am not going to try it again anytime soon.

 

[lovinthehd]

It sounds promising in the description. I'd just hate to spend a grand (give or take) on a refurb and have it last just outside the 18 month warranty. Not saying it will or won't but with electronics nothing is guaranteed to last.

Some of the refurbs come with just a 1 year factory warranty, that plus a year I was comfortable with altho once I had an avr I purchased new with a 2 year warranty (a Pioneer) go out on me in the first month past warranty. New units can have the longer warranties, so factor that into a refurb cost....

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

@lovinthehd is the only person I know of that had two refurbished Denon AVRs arrived defective back-to-back from A4L (which they took care of).

The refurbished Denon's that arrived DOA for me were from another authorized seller. They also gave me a full refund each time.

 

[lovinthehd]

I've read of a few other refurb issues here and there. I think even read about another guy that had two bad ones....been a while since I dug into it (and have had the last avr from them for 5 plus years now, but that was a new unit I bought from them after the two funky refurbs).

 

[Ken32]

Some of the refurbs come with just a 1 year factory warranty, that plus a year I was comfortable with altho once I had an avr I purchased new with a 2 year warranty (a Pioneer) go out on me in the first month past warranty. New units can have the longer warranties, so factor that into a refurb cost....

It would be 867.98 out the door for the Yamaha 2070 with 5 years of coverage. I don't think that's a bad price at all. It will be put on my APC battery backup unit for Surge/power protection. So it'll be covered either way. 5 years makes me feel awful bubbly inside lol.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think even read about another guy that had two bad ones.

Also 2 bad DENON refurb?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It would be 867.98 out the door for the Yamaha 2070 with 5 years of coverage.

Call them and see if they would give you free shipping. Never know.

 

[lovinthehd]

Also 2 bad DENON refurb?

Don't remember brand, but since Yamaha I don't think was carried back then by A4L at the time, it probably wasn't one of theirs. I just remember thinking hey I'm not the only one!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Don't remember brand, but since Yamaha I don't think was carried back then by A4L at the time, it probably wasn't one of theirs. I just remember thinking hey I'm not the only one!

Strength in number.

 

[Ken32]

Call them and see if they would give you free shipping. Never know.

it is free! says right on the cover photo Yet another bonus!

 

[mtrycrafts]

Also 2 bad DENON refurb?

They may not bench check it before shipping?

 

[Ken32]

I found some info on the 2070 that's kind of discouraging....



image: https://www.soundandvision.com/images/218yamarec.meas.jpg

This graph shows that the RX-A2070’s left channel, from Audio1 input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads. Measurements for THD+noise, crosstalk, signal-to-noise ratio, and analog/digital frequency response were all within expected performance parameters. Full details available at soundandvision.com.—MJP

image: https://www.soundandvision.com/images/218yamarec.spx.jpg

Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/content/yamaha-aventage-rx-a2070-av-receiver-review-test-bench#l0yO9Jy6mhWj9RS2.99

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I found some info on the 2070 that's kind of discouraging....



image: https://www.soundandvision.com/images/218yamarec.meas.jpg

This graph shows that the RX-A2070’s left channel, from Audio1 input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads. Measurements for THD+noise, crosstalk, signal-to-noise ratio, and analog/digital frequency response were all within expected performance parameters. Full details available at soundandvision.com.—MJP

image: https://www.soundandvision.com/images/218yamarec.spx.jpg

Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/content/yamaha-aventage-rx-a2070-av-receiver-review-test-bench#l0yO9Jy6mhWj9RS2.99

Because of the 7Ch All Channels Driven (ACD) test?

You need to read about the ACD fallacy.

https://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/the-all-channels-driven-acd-amplifier-test

No need to worry.

Yamaha is well known for being stringent on protection circuits.

Even their $3,000 11Ch MX-A5200 amp goes into protection mode when 7CH are driven simultaneously.

In the real world you don’t have to worry about ACD.

In the real world, most of the power goes to the subwoofers. Next are the front 2 speakers. Then the Center speaker. All the surround speakers and ceiling speakers don’t require much power at all.

So focus on the 2CH Driven Test into 8 ohms and 4 ohms.

 

[Phase 2]

Wow! that would definitely leave a bad taste for me as well. I feel the same about onkyo now.

Yeah, it's a shame that Onkyo 830 has a nice look to it. I have read good and bad reviews on them. I guess it's a hit or miss with those.
Could it be a QC issue?

 

[nbk13nw]

Been happy with my 830 in the main HT. Using an Onkyo TX RX710 upstairs. I have had 2 Pioneers, a Yamaha, a Denon and three Onkyos over the years. Never had an issue with any of them. I guess I have been fortunate in that respect.

 

[nbk13nw]

Should read an Onkyo TX RX810 upstairs. Unable to edit

 

[Ken32]

Yeah, it's a shame that Onkyo 830 has a nice look to it. I have read good and bad reviews on them. I guess it's a hit or miss with those.
Could it be a QC issue?

Seem like it is. Pioneer has gone down hill it seem like since Onkyo acquired them. I've read lots of mixed reviews on them. I was initially going to buy a SCLX701. Now i won't give Onkyoneer any of my business.