Subwoofer Recommendations for a 2,500 cubic foot living room? (Monolith/HSU/SVS... 12" vs 15")

[William Lemmerhirt]

Didn't know the PC models were finished in crushed velvet...

@Landmonster BTW since one wall is open to the kitchen, that's part of the room as far as the sub is concerned...my vote is dual of some combo of subs discussed with suitable finish. You really can't go wrong.

Yeah, it’s a weird kind of sock that’s basically crushed velvet. Truth be told, I’m not that the new ones are but I think...

 

[Landmonster]

I'm leaning towards 2 of the HSU's in the Satin Black finish. I think they would go well with my Polk LSi speakers.

Find me 2 optimal ones, for a 2500 square foot room, which would go nicely sonicaly and aesthetically with the 707 towers.

(Different brand is okay too..... but I can't do the fake-wood black veener on the Monolith though.)


Thanks! go

 

[lovinthehd]

Can't help you with finish matching....but the VTF3 mk5 is hard to beat for the price, but the VT15H mk2 is pretty sweet for a little more 2500 sq ft room, ya move somewhere?

 

[OTLJosh]

My vote: two SVS PC2000 subs will give you the most depth and accuracy for under $2K. You’d have to bump your budget significantly to beat that pair. Unfortunately they are 3 feet high cylinders but their quality is staggering for $800 each.

 

[OTLJosh]

Hi guys.

So I just took some room measurements:

• My room is: 15'2" long x 16'10" wide x 10 foot ceilings.
• Calculated, this is 2,553 cubic feet (with one wall open to the kitchen (with a bar))
• The front speakers would be along the wall that is 16'10" wide.... and be playing outward into the listening area, which is 15"2 deep.

In any case, I can fit upto 2 subwoofers in this room, but they will likely need to be on the main wall with the L/R/C channel speakers, as the other walls cannot easily fit subs due to furniture. I could have 2 subs on the front wall, or perhaps have 1 sub on the rear wall, and 1 on the front.

What size subs should I be looking at here? And how many? I want to achieve an impressively loud and clear theatre, without goign to the point of extreme overkill... damaging sheetrock, knocking plates off shelves, that kind of thing.

I read very good reviews on the Monoprice 12" THX ultra sub, and it seems like a good price for the quality. It has noticeably more output and less distortion than the 10" version for only slightly more money, so it seems like a good price point.

Questions:

1. Would 2 of the 12" Monoprice subs be overkill in this room, or would that be hitting a "sweet spot"?
2. Would a single 15" Monoprice sub outperform dual 12" Monoprice subs in this room size?
3. Is it worth stepping up to dual Monoprice 15" THX subs?
4. How about a SVS or HSU sub alternative?

Ideally the max budget is around $2,000.... new/used/refurbished, as long as it's pristine.

Two 12” subs will sound better than one 15” for more seats but if you are only concerned about one seat and willing to sub crawl then one 15” is more than adequate for your volume.

 

[Landmonster]

Can't help you with finish matching....but the VTF3 mk5 is hard to beat for the price, but the VT15H mk2 is pretty sweet for a little more 2500 sq ft room, ya move somewhere?

I will likely be fine with the Piano black on the SVS subs, or the satin black on the HSUs. Those are the best I've seen with my limited research into the subwoofer world.

I want something that looks nice, not just like a piece of industrial theatre hardware.

 

[Landmonster]

Two 12” subs will sound better than one 15” for more seats but if you are only concerned about one seat and willing to sub crawl then one 15” is more than adequate for your volume.

Thanks. I haven't seen the PC cylinder subs before today.

Why would those be superior to the standard box design? How would they compare to a SB3000, which are SVS's subs around $1k each? I assume they are less quality than the SVS 3000 series?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

SVS PC series are very close to PB, not SB. They need less floor space, but they are much taller.

 

[ryanosaur]

SVS PC series are very close to PB, not SB. They need less floor space, but they are much taller.

And lighter, IIRC... one person can move a PC4000... not too many of us are deadlifting PB4Ks.

 

[OTLJosh]

Thanks. I haven't seen the PC cylinder subs before today.

Why would those be superior to the standard box design? How would they compare to a SB3000, which are SVS's subs around $1k each? I assume they are less quality than the SVS 3000 series?

Physics: more volume in cylinder shape means deeper bass; cube is fashion friendly but cylinder is a more efficient. PC2000 should give you similar extension as SB3000. The PC2000 is less fancy, but you’re paying more for SB3000’s larger driver to overcome its sealed cube’s lower efficiency.

 

[OTLJosh]

And lighter, IIRC... one person can move a PC4000... not too many of us are deadlifting PB4Ks.

Another vote for the very awesome PC4000 - puts to shame anything in its price range.

 

[snakeeyes]

Dual HSU VTF15 would be awesome!

Good luck!

 

[shadyJ]

Physics: more volume in cylinder shape means deeper bass; cube is fashion friendly but cylinder is a more efficient. PC2000 should give you similar extension as SB3000. The PC2000 is less fancy, but you’re paying more for SB3000’s larger driver to overcome its sealed cube’s lower efficiency.

The PC-2000 should have substantially more powerful deep bass capability than the SB-3000. The SB-3000's beefier driver and anp can help to mitigate the inefficiency of the sealed cabinet, but they still aren't going to be able to match the efficiency of a ported enclosure around its port tuning.

Another vote for the very awesome PC4000 - puts to shame anything in its price range.

I have no doubt that the PC-4000 is very good, but its definitely an overstatement to say it puts to shame anything around its price point.

 

[Landmonster]

Dual HSU VTF15 would be awesome!

Good luck!

Thanks.

So it seems like I could get dual HSU vtf15-mk2 or the slightly smaller HSU vtf3 mk5 for about $800 each

Is there anything negative about these subs that I should be aware of? Or anything in the price range that would meet or exceed the overall performance?


Somewhere this thread has spun off into SVS pc2000 subs, and the twice more expensive pc4000 subs. The pc4000 is about $1800 each , last I checked.... So I mean, that's the price of dual vt15 mk2s

 

[Landmonster]

The PC-2000 should have substantially more powerful deep bass capability than the SB-3000. The SB-3000's beefier driver and and can help to mitigate the inefficiency of the sealed cabinet, but they still aren't going to be able to match the efficiency of a ported enclosure around its port tuning.

I have no doubt that the PC-4000 is very good, but its definitely an overstatement to say it puts to shame anything around its price point.

I value your input, if you are the resident subwoofer guru. For $2000 for a pair, is there anything you've heard that would meet or exceed the HSU vtf15 mk2, or the slightly cheaper vtf3?

What about if you increased the price slightly... $2400 maximum?

Follow-up... do you Believe the amplifiers in the HSU subs are any good? It seems slightly strange to me that HSU would out only a 600 watt amp in their flagship 15" sub, whereas companies like JTR and Svs are using multi-thousand watt amps in similar and smaller subs.

How much of a factor does sub amplification play, and are HSUs adequate ?

 

[shadyJ]

I value your input, if you are the resident subwoofer guru. For $2000 for a pair, is there anything you've heard that would meet or exceed the HSUs?

What about if you increased the price slightly?

Follow-up... do you Believe the amplifiers in the HSU subs are any good? It seems slightly stranger that HSU would out only a 600 watt amp in their flagship 15" sub, whereas companies like JTR and Svs are using multi-thousand watt amps

The Hsu 15"s provide very high performance for their pricing. They are hard to beat in overall performance at their price points. They do sacrifice in some other aspects to achieve that performance/price ratio. Some other subs are more feature rich, like SVS and Paradigm have their smartphone apps. Other subs have longer warranties on their amps, although with Hsu you can buy an extended warranty. Hsu also requires the buyer to pay for shipping both ways, so if you need to return one, you are out shipping costs, and that is a lot on a sub as big as the VTF15h mk2, probably $300 to $350 overall. So there are trade-offs no matter what you choose here.

As for amplifiers, they don't matter nearly as much as most people believe. Driver efficiency and enclosure size count for a lot more. What you should be looking at is end performance measurements, not specs. It's like a car that has 600 horsepower vs a car that has 300 horsepower, all other things being equal, yes the 600 horses are better, but what if the 600 HP car weighs four times as much? This context is hugely important in considering performance in the world of loudspeakers and subwoofers.

 

[snakeeyes]

Thanks.

So it seems like I could get dual HSU vtf15-mk2 or the slightly smaller HSU vtf3 mk5 for about $800 each

Is there anything negative about these subs that I should be aware of? Or anything in the price range that would meet or exceed the overall performance?


Somewhere this thread has spun off into SVS pc2000 subs, and the twice more expensive pc4000 subs. The pc4000 is about $1800 each , last I checked.... So I mean, that's the price of dual vt15 mk2s

Not aware of anything negative. I have dual VTF2 MK5 in 3700 cu ft. The VTF3 is in between them in size and a fine choice. I would have done those but I only had limited funds as it’s my 3rd system. LOL

 

[Landmonster]

The Hsu 15"s provide very high performance for their pricing. They are hard to beat in overall performance at their price points. They do sacrifice in some other aspects to achieve that performance/price ratio. Some other subs are more feature rich, like SVS and Paradigm have their smartphone apps. Other subs have longer warranties on their amps, although with Hsu you can buy an extended warranty. Hsu also requires the buyer to pay for shipping both ways, so if you need to return one, you are out shipping costs, and that is a lot on a sub as big as the VTF15h mk2, probably $300 to $350 overall. So there are trade-offs no matter what you choose here.

As for amplifiers, they don't matter nearly as much as most people believe. Driver efficiency and enclosure size count for a lot more. What you should be looking at is end performance measurements, not specs. It's like a car that has 600 horsepower vs a car that has 300 horsepower, all other things being equal, yes the 600 horses are better, but what if the 600 HP car weighs four times as much? This context is hugely important in considering performance in the world of loudspeakers and subwoofers.

Yea. I get that end performance matters the most.

Are you aware of any flaws with the HSUs? Do they have very low distortion figures, relative to their competitors?

I'd probably be more of a fan of clean bass than soul-shattering bass.... But if I can get both that would be ideal.

I did like that the monoprice 12" seemed to have low THD specs at high outputs. It seemed like a no brainier over the 10" , because it offered less distortion plus higher output levels, there was no downside besides cost I'd be curious to see data how other brands and models like HSU stack up... I'd probably just need to see data sheets

 

[shadyJ]

Yea. I get that end performance matters the most.

Are you aware of any flaws with the HSUs? Do they have very low distortion figures, relative to their competitors?

I'd probably be more of a fan of clean bass than soul-shattering bass.... But if I can get both that would be ideal.

I did like that the monoprice 12" seemed to have low THD specs at high outputs. It seemed like a no brainier over the 10" , because it offered less distortion plus higher output levels, there was no downside besides cost I'd be curious to see data how other brands and models like HSU stack up... I'd probably just need to see data sheets

Regarding performance, The Hsu subs don't have any real flaws relative to other brands. But, like I said, between the manufacturers discussed here, none of them have any real performance weaknesses. The trade-offs are more in other areas like pricing, feature sets, warranties, shipping costs, etc.
Yes, the Hsu subs have very good distortion characteristics. Not quite as good as the Monolith THX subs, but those are engineered to have extremely low distortion in order to achieve THX certification. The THX subs from Monoprice and Outlaw Audio are some of the lowest distortion subs that are available. The Hsu subs do have distortion so low that it would be inaudible at almost all drive levels. In other words, you would have to crank the Hsu subs to maximum drive levels for distortion to be heard at all, and you would probably never do that. If you want to see the data, look through Audioholics subwoofer reviews for the subs you are interested in comparing. For Hsu, there is the VTF-1 mk3, VTF-2 mk5, ULS-15 mk2. I also have extensive measurements for the VTF15h mk2, ULS-15 mk1, and VTF-3 mk3 that are not published.

 

[kini]

I'm leaning towards 2 of the HSU's in the Satin Black finish. I think they would go well with my Polk LSi speakers.

Find me 2 optimal ones, for a 2500 square foot room, which would go nicely sonicaly and aesthetically with the 707 towers.

(Different brand is okay too..... but I can't do the fake-wood black veener on the Monolith though.)


Thanks! go

Just to let you know in case you didn't, the HSU VTF15mkII and ULS15mkII (sealed) are available in rosewood veneer.
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-15hmk2.html