Should I get a Stereo preamp?

[Verdinut]

I had a Parasound 2100 pre-amp paired to an Onkyo NR818, it was a lot better than the pre-amp in the Onkyo. Just a smoother sounding unit I tried every which way to get the Onkyo to sound as smooth as that 2100 never could.

As you most likely did not proceed to a double blind comparison, you just anticipated that it sounded better and your brain was influenced by what we call "THE PLACEBO EFFECT".

 

[HTfreak2004]

I had an early AVR by JVC that’s why I went the separates route and have never looked back since!

 

[asere]

OP, even if your interest is just stereo, ya might want to consider a multi-channel Preamp/Processor, or AVR. It will manage bass, as well as permit HDMI connection to a relatively inexpensive Universal Player, which will give you CD and SACD play capability. Plus, you can expand into multi-channel music and movies should someday you want to indulge in that. Some recent PrePros and AVRs also have RCA Phono inputs.

I am using a parasound hca 1500a 2ch amp with an av receiver along with the zpre3 for stereo. The zpre3 has HT bypass.

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[HTfreak2004]

As you most likely did not proceed to a double blind comparison, you just anticipated that it sounded better and your brain was influenced by what we call "THE PLACEBO EFFECT".

I agree. Separates all the way. Nothing beats the control dedicated separates offer. They may cost more but that will “always” be money well spent for that last 20% of performance. Unless those still on the fence about this do the blind comparisons as you say there will always be a debate. For me the first time my integrated unit ran out of power and overloaded shutting down during Jeepers Creepers I knew that separates was the way and that’s the best decision I made for movies and music listening. To me an AVR is a. Basic car with an upgraded ECU and options package yet it’s still integrated. Get them separate your serious about the last 20% of performance most will never get to experience!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I prefer the separates path and don’t care about the added cost. To me a sub and a loud speaker are separates

I like separates.

To me even the amp and the subwoofer are separates and I would never even buy a subwoofer with an amp inside of the subwoofer because I like to keep the amp separated from the subwoofer and speakers and everything else.

I always find it funny when people say they hate amps inside AVR, but then turn around and say they want amps, DSP, processors, decoders inside the speakers.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The zpre3 has HT bypass.

I’ve always find that HT Bypass funny.

Is it really truly Bypassed?

Has anyone ever measured the SNR, Crosstalk, FR, THD going through that so-called “Bypass”?

I mean the signal is still going through all those long wires and circuits and everything else inside the chassis.

 

[Phase 2]

As you most likely did not proceed to a double blind comparison, you just anticipated that it sounded better and your brain was influenced by what we call "THE PLACEBO EFFECT".

I went through a lot of gear back in those year's. From amps, pre-amps, to separate processor. So yeah maybe

 

[Leemix]

As you most likely did not proceed to a double blind comparison, you just anticipated that it sounded better and your brain was influenced by what we call "THE PLACEBO EFFECT".

Not a double blind but when others hear an improvement in the sound and dont know what and how you have things connected at the time its a pretty good indicator that its not just me thinking i hear something different.


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[Phase 2]

Thanks. I know what you mean. When I mentioned I like the bass, treble option that's just an option that I like but when flat it sounds great too. Just playing with it.

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Flat sounds well Flat, tone controls are awesome!

 

[PENG]

I’ve always find that HT Bypass funny.

Is it really truly Bypassed?

Has anyone ever measured the SNR, Crosstalk, FR, THD going through that so-called “Bypass”?

I mean the signal is still going through all those long wires and circuits and everything else inside the chassis.

HT bypass bypass the preamp section, that's it.

 

[PENG]

Get them separate your serious about the last 20% of performance most will never get to experience!

It depends on many things, all else being equal, separates may get you that last X % of performance, though X is still an unknown number that is hard to quantify if possible at all.

A $4,000 Denon, Arcam, or other well build AVRs will in theory get you more SQ performance than an entry level pair of separate preamp power amp even for 2 channel use, but I know what you are saying.

 

[Phase 2]

I had a BBE maximizer, looped in on a setup back in the mid 90's paired to a Sony ES AVR alone with a Carver amp with a pair of Vega speakers 18" drivers, two 7" mid drivers and the horn tweeter. Best setup I ever had.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

HT bypass bypass the preamp section, that's it.

You recall ever seeing anyone measure how "pure" the HT bypass loop is?

Seems to me like just another loop to jump through and add a longer signal path and more THD and SNR.

I would use just one component - either one AVR or AVP, instead of using one AVR or AVP plus another Preamp. That's just adding another path to the chain and dirtying up the signal.

 

[PENG]

You recall ever seeing anyone measure how "pure" the HT bypass loop is?

Seems to be like just another loop to jump through and add a longer signal path and more THD and SNR.

If it is done via quality relays then I have no concern, it is not hard to keep the signal path short and clean.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If it is done via quality relays then I have no concern, it is not hard to keep the signal path short and clean.

I know.

But you know how some people talk about keeping that "shortest signal path" and how separates are a lot more pure a cleaner than AVR?

And then they go and add another piece of signal path to their "short path".

To me, if you want to be cost-effective or economically-sound, get a mid-level AVR on sale that will sound as great as separates.

If you want to be fancy, get an AVP.

If you just care about 2Ch stereo, you can also just get one stereo preamp.

But there's no point adding a preamp to the AVR or AVP with a so-called "HT Bypass".

 

[Phase 2]

unless you BBE Maximize it!!

 

[Leemix]

I know.

But you know how some people talk about keeping that "shortest signal path" and how separates are a lot more pure a cleaner than AVR?

And then they go and add another piece of signal path to their "short path".

To me, if you want to be cost-effective or economically-sound, get a mid-level AVR on sale that will sound as great as separates.

If you want to be fancy, get an AVP.

There's no point adding a preamp to the AVR or AVP with a so-called "HT Bypass".

The point is better sound for stereo and the minimal signal degredation from a good 2 ch dac/pre when running a movie is not notiseable/negligable. Is this true for all equipment, dont think so, and entry level 2ch pre with HT bypass is probably not worth it but for me at least and for some others it works very well.


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[Phase 2]

PENG, just what a BBE maximizer real does? i can't find anything on that. Back in the mid 90's I picked it up in a audio boutique store in Lafayette. isn't it some kind of fancy processor?

 

[PENG]

I know.

But you know how some people talk about keeping that "shortest signal path" and how separates are a lot more pure a cleaner than AVR?

And then they go and add another piece of signal path to their "short path".

To me, if you want to be cost-effective or economically-sound, get a mid-level AVR on sale that will sound as great as separates.

If you want to be fancy, get an AVP.

If you just care about 2Ch stereo, you can also just get one stereo preamp.

But there's no point adding a preamp to the AVR or AVP with a so-called "HT Bypass".

I get your point. I will not doing such thing myself. It's not complicated to do, but to me it is just so clumsy, that would take away the part of the enjoyment.

 

[Irvrobinson]

PENG, just what a BBE maximizer real does? i can't find anything on that. Back in the mid 90's I picked it up in a audio boutique store in Lafayette. isn't it some kind of fancy processor?

The product description on this link has a high-level explanation of what a Sonic Maximizer does.

http://www.bbesound.com/products/sonic-maximizers/282i.aspx