Should I get a Stereo preamp?

[asere]

I am currently using a Parasound HCA 1500A 2 CH amp with a Denon x4200 receiver as a preamp for Home Theater and Stereo.
If I get the Parasound Zpre3 preamp will that unit be better than my Denon receiver as a preamp for Stereo?

 

[slipperybidness]

Nope.

Just adding complexity and spending $

 

[asere]

Nope.

Just adding complexity and spending $

When someone gets a dedicated stereo preamp is that because they don't have an avr?

 

[Leemix]

I dont know how the zpre3 is but i use a PS Audio Stellar GCD for 2 channel music. It has home theater bypass so unless i listen to music i just let it just pass through the signal from the marantz 8805 processor to a parasound a31. I very much like the sound from the 2 channel dac/pre, is it better or just different then the av8805, i dont know but i prefer it. How another 2ch pre would be i dont know, or the zpre3 for that matter. It could be an idea to try before you buy at least because the added complexity and added chance of interference might very well not be worth it if there even is a slight improvement or change, your AVR is a very capable pre.


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[asere]

I dont know how the zpre3 is but i use a PS Audio Stellar GCD for 2 channel music. It has home theater bypass so unless i listen to music i just let it just pass through the signal from the marantz 8805 processor to a parasound a31. I very much like the sound from the 2 channel dac/pre, is it better or just different then the av8805, i dont know but i prefer it. How another 2ch pre would be i dont know, or the zpre3 for that matter. It could be an idea to try before you buy at least because the added complexity and added chance of interference might very well not be worth it if there even is a slight improvement or change, your AVR is a very capable pre.


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The zpre3 has HT bypass so that's a plus. Having said that my Parasound 2ch amp turns on/off with 12v trigger when the receiver comes on/off. I can always leave the receiver on when using the zpre3 for stereo just hit bypass correct?

 

[Leemix]

The zpre3 has HT bypass so that's a plus. Having said that my Parasound 2ch amp turns on/off with 12v trigger when the receiver comes on/off. I can always leave the receiver on when using the zpre3 for stereo just hit bypass correct?

Choose a different input then the HT bypass yes


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[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't think it will sound even 0.1% better.

But if it makes you happy, it can't be that bad.

 

[asere]

Well I got the zpre3 and I really like it. Compared to my avr preamp I think this one sounds cleaner, especially the voices and a wider soundstage. The bass and treble adjustments brings it to life too.

 

[Verdinut]

Well I got the zpre3 and I really like it. Compared to my avr preamp I think this one sounds cleaner, especially the voices and a wider soundstage. The bass and treble adjustments brings it to life too.

Good for you!

 

[HTfreak2004]

Using treble/bass gains is a manipulation to source material adding coloration to what was originally recorded at the studio. If you need to manipulate the source material to “bring it to life” as you stated then that tends to lean towards poor speaker design or placement in your room. Don’t misunderstand what I mean here. I am not trying to tell you that your hearing is wrong in this matter but the source material has exposed a weakness in your speaker setup, speakers design, or both and you are trying to offset that with treble/bass boost/trim to present a sound you expect you should hear when in fact the first priority should be to relocate the speakers to present a larger/smaller soundstage and get the imaging out from in front of the speakers and instead image from behind them. That is what speaker transparency is. When a speaker does that well it is a beautiful thing. Yes of course DACs can and do impact your impression of the source material but it’s hard to compare DACs if the speaker design or setup is the weakest link. You cannot hear the superiority of a top end DAC through a incapable speaker. At best a lower quality DAC with that same speaker can equal the superior DAC simply through the fact that the speaker itself has reached its performance threshold! We hear what we want to hear and often times it is not always the same simply because we are emotional/feeling based creatures and that is why music is subjective. It’s very possible to believe something is better and as a result of that belief hear what is not even measurable and why because that is called critical listening! When you listen that way your only listening for a specific result and in turn lose other parts of the main course! You get what you focus on and lose what you do not. Anyway it’s a great passionate hobby we are blessed and sometimes cursed to dabble in but hey I wouldn’t change anything about it

 

[shadyJ]

If there is a significant difference in sound between a integrated amp and an AVR then one of them is broken.

 

[asere]

Using treble/bass gains is a manipulation to source material adding coloration to what was originally recorded at the studio. If you need to manipulate the source material to “bring it to life” as you stated then that tends to lean towards poor speaker design or placement in your room. Don’t misunderstand what I mean here. I am not trying to tell you that your hearing is wrong in this matter but the source material has exposed a weakness in your speaker setup, speakers design, or both and you are trying to offset that with treble/bass boost/trim to present a sound you expect you should hear when in fact the first priority should be to relocate the speakers to present a larger/smaller soundstage and get the imaging out from in front of the speakers and instead image from behind them. That is what speaker transparency is. When a speaker does that well it is a beautiful thing. Yes of course DACs can and do impact your impression of the source material but it’s hard to compare DACs if the speaker design or setup is the weakest link. You cannot hear the superiority of a top end DAC through a incapable speaker. At best a lower quality DAC with that same speaker can equal the superior DAC simply through the fact that the speaker itself has reached its performance threshold! We hear what we want to hear and often times it is not always the same simply because we are emotional/feeling based creatures and that is why music is subjective. It’s very possible to believe something is better and as a result of that belief hear what is not even measurable and why because that is called critical listening! When you listen that way your only listening for a specific result and in turn lose other parts of the main course! You get what you focus on and lose what you do not. Anyway it’s a great passionate hobby we are blessed and sometimes cursed to dabble in but hey I wouldn’t change anything about it

Thanks. I know what you mean. When I mentioned I like the bass, treble option that's just an option that I like but when flat it sounds great too. Just playing with it.

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[HTfreak2004]

One of the beautiful advantages of keeping the treble/bass gains flat is the louder you can stress your amps without losing details with excessive bass to early. If you like more bottom end try moving the speakers a touch at a time closer to the corners of you room until you notice that bass is slightly louder. Play around with the toe angle of your speakers until the image is spread about enough that you can actually hear the difference. Remember any frequency you amp is signalled to play is a specific frequency. Bass/treble gains are in there basic form independent volume knobs intended to amplify the signal frequency they cannot change the frequencies. I used to goof with my gains all the time in my car audio. Just like you can learn to acquire the taste for black coffee as it was intended to be drank you can acquire the taste for a pure studio recording even on an inferior speaker/system


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[sterling shoote]

OP, even if your interest is just stereo, ya might want to consider a multi-channel Preamp/Processor, or AVR. It will manage bass, as well as permit HDMI connection to a relatively inexpensive Universal Player, which will give you CD and SACD play capability. Plus, you can expand into multi-channel music and movies should someday you want to indulge in that. Some recent PrePros and AVRs also have RCA Phono inputs.

 

[HTfreak2004]

If there is a significant difference in sound between a integrated amp and an AVR then one of them is broken.

When you say “integrated amp” and “avr” your referring to the same thing. Integrated units combine amp&processor in one unit with one power supply. I never heard of an integrated amp.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I never heard of an integrated amp.

“Integrated Amps” have been around for a very long time. They combine stereo preamps + stereo amps. They don’t have processors for Dolby Atmos 7.2.6 or the latest 4K HDR Video.

They are not “AVRs”, which combine all of creation, including tuners, WiFi, Bluetooth, Apps, Streaming services, Room Correction, Pre-pro for Atmos, DTSX, 4K HDR, and tons of amps.

 

[shadyJ]

When you say “integrated amp” and “avr” your referring to the same thing. Integrated units combine amp&processor in one unit with one power supply. I never heard of an integrated amp.

Integrated Amplifier

 

[Phase 2]

I dont know how the zpre3 is but i use a PS Audio Stellar GCD for 2 channel music. It has home theater bypass so unless i listen to music i just let it just pass through the signal from the marantz 8805 processor to a parasound a31. I very much like the sound from the 2 channel dac/pre, is it better or just different then the av8805, i dont know but i prefer it. How another 2ch pre would be i dont know, or the zpre3 for that matter. It could be an idea to try before you buy at least because the added complexity and added chance of interference might very well not be worth it if there even is a slight improvement or change, your AVR is a very capable pre.


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I had a Parasound 2100 pre-amp paired to an Onkyo NR818, it was a lot better than the pre-amp in the Onkyo. Just a smoother sounding unit I tried every which way to get the Onkyo to sound as smooth as that 2100 never could.

 

[HTfreak2004]

I understand. An AVR adds video options, but other than video there is no difference between an integrated pre&amp in one chassis and AVR unless we’re talking pre digital and using line level inputs/analog only here. I agree that at the end of the day the sound should basically be equal assuming the integrated unit or AVR is used as a pass through unit. If not we involve the DACs each one offers and possibly even the type of amp inside each one. Separates offer control over which “pre” you use and which “amp” to mate it with while Integrated is a package deal. Myself I prefer the separates path and don’t care about the added cost. To me a sub and a loud speaker are separates and I prefer the advantages of dedicating a roll to each one. It adds cost but allows flexibility inside a room! An all in one speaker tower is difficult to get right inside a room but is a convenience and cost savings path many prefer I just wouldn’t brag about that speaker type myself as it’s serving a specific application for limited space or budget. I’m also not saying big price tags lead to higher performance. The audio industry is a bug that has attracted a tonne of new enthusiasts over the last 20 years and many of those enthusiasts need to be serviced with budget gear like Android did with their economy line until they had a customer base to produce and offer their dedicated customers a more sophisticated product to complete with Apple. Apple had to go the other way to increase its customer base. So with Audio gear integrated units attracted all different ages to the hobby at a fraction of the price. Anyhow now I’m way off simple here so know that I respect your input!

 

[Phase 2]

“Integrated Amps” have been around for a very long time. They combine stereo preamps + stereo amps. They don’t have processors for Dolby Atmos 7.2.6 or the latest 4K HDR Video.

They are not “AVRs”, which combine all of creation, including tuners, WiFi, Bluetooth, Apps, Streaming services, Room Correction, Pre-pro for Atmos, DTSX, 4K HDR, and tons of amps.

Yep AVR'S have a bunch of lil tiny amps inside. ..