"Unbreaking America" - proposed concept on fixing our political system!

TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
This is a myth, and simply not true. There was a time, decades ago that it was true, but those days are long gone. These days it's just propaganda spread by the social welfare industry to justify their jobs and socialist teachers/professors to sell socialism to the gullible. Between food stamps, WIC, school lunches, and church group food giveaways no child in America need go hungry. The fact is that adult and childhood obesity are a much bigger problems in poor households than hunger. Unfortunately some drug addicted poor do sell a portion of their government aid to pay for drugs but throwing more money at that problem just goes to pay for more drugs not more food.

As for child labor laws, I had a job all through high school and I managed to graduate with not only a far better understanding of mathematics, chemistry, literature, civics, personal finance, and history than today's average HS grad, but with a trade and good well established work habits that allowed me to hit the ground running. I also worked my way through college and graduated with a degree in something useful and marketable and no debt. Back then lots of HS kids had summer jobs in the food, construction, or auto repair industries and graduated with good solid work habits and a resume and a car they paid for themselves. The fact remains that any able bodied person of reasonable intelligence can work their way into the middle class if they are willing to put in the effort and take less than glamorous jobs. Sadly, way too many people aren't willing to put in that effort or get their hands dirty. And others decided to spend 4-6 years and $100K in debt getting a college degree in thumb twiddling and whining about the successful only to find themselves barely qualified for a job at Starbucks. Neither are the fault of the successful or successful companies and their working class IRA and 401k investors.

Yeah, those socialist teachers working for $30k..... Oh, and with a Masters they can make $40k!!!!!!

It may shock you to learn that in 2019, the average cost of a 4 year degree can be more than $40k per year? Yeah, waiting tables will surely cover that, plus cost of living....

That is supreme arrogance to suggest that the ever shrinking alotment for WIC and food stamps are somehow magically supposed to end up in the stomach of a child.

Must have been nice for you to have worked, only in high school, and not had to help pay rent.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Yeah, I find this 'poor hating' theme pretty detestable.

Counting change is taught in elementary school. Socialization comes from going to school. Yet we pay teachers nothing.

The education systems in this country ARE not funded well enough, clearly. In knowing that, I don't know why you would then continue to punish the children of under-educated parents. You know, the ones that were taught abstinence only?
Counting change SHOULD BE taught in elementary school or, at home.

I would say that the funding in some places is insufficient, but in others, the money is mis-used or the school system had to cave to the teachers union. Wisconsin is one of those- the MKE school budget for the current year is $1.2B, with 65% of that going toward wages and pensions. This is for about 76K students, many of whom don't want to be there at all, never mind being there to learn. Grammar, Math & Science scores are terrible but they are improving in some schools- I see that as promising, even though the school board is bloated and they generally can't agree on much.

I'm not punishing the kids, I was commenting on one cause for their problems. Yes, socialization should be learned at school but what happens when the kids are chronically truant or they drop out early?

This-

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/crime/2019/04/19/crash-injured-seven-stemmed-triple-shooting-pursuit/3519292002/

www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2018/11/13/school-report-cards-high-poverty-milwaukee-schools-miss-benchmarks/1977241002/
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Yeah, those socialist teachers working for $30k..... Oh, and with a Masters they can make $40k!!!!!!

It may shock you to learn that in 2019, the average cost of a 4 year degree can be more than $40k per year? Yeah, waiting tables will surely cover that, plus cost of living....

That is supreme arrogance to suggest that the ever shrinking alotment for WIC and food stamps are somehow magically supposed to end up in the stomach of a child.

Must have been nice for you to have worked, only in high school, and not had to help pay rent.
Where do they make $30K? That's for starting teachers. The teachers at the high school where I graduated make over $100K, but that's a suburb.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Yeah, those socialist teachers working for $30k..... Oh, and with a Masters they can make $40k!!!!!!

It may shock you to learn that in 2019, the average cost of a 4 year degree can be more than $40k per year? Yeah, waiting tables will surely cover that, plus cost of living....

That is supreme arrogance to suggest that the ever shrinking alotment for WIC and food stamps are somehow magically supposed to end up in the stomach of a child.

Must have been nice for you to have worked, only in high school, and not had to help pay rent.
The lowest paid teachers in the country are in Oklahoma, and they make an average salary of $45K:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/07/many-oklahoma-teachers-earn-less-than-gas-station-workers.html

But that's Oklahoma. In Oregon, for example, the teachers make an average of $57K, and they get a retirement benefit called PERS. Googling that is fascinating. In many big districts around the country the average is closer to $90K.

At least get your facts straight...
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I got my advanced change counting degree while buying drugs.

Drug dealers can't be trusted.
I read a comment from someone online- he wrote that he never understood fractions until he started using drugs.

You would be amazed by the people here- I bought a sub sandwich and handed the girl $20. I only remember the totals because, well, I'm a freak but also because it SHOULD have been so easy to add up. The sub cost $5.59, including tax and I watched as she looked at the register's screen, looked at the drawer, grabbed the bills and some coins, looked at her hand, looked back at the screen, looked up, went back to the drawer for another coin and handed the money to me. She was only a quarter short. All she had to do is pick up a quarter, dime, nickel and a penny, then say "Twenty-five, thirty, fourty, fourty-one". I'm not sure she new that she gave me sixteen cents or that it was less than a quarter.
 
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R

R.Elder

Audioholic
Having worked in the high-tech corporate world for decades, I know it's not that simple. For starters, the lack of tax payments is allowing Amazon to spend on other things, like employee salaries and benefits, speculative projects, acquisitions, low introductory prices for new products, and on and on. Some of these items might be cut, or at least not grow so fast. Amazon might raise the bar on anticipated returns from acquisitions. (I can think of a couple of that were dubious.) And they might raise some prices, like for Amazon Prime, which they do every year, but remember that Amazon's biggest profit generator by far is AWS, and they can't just raise prices because they have a lot of very rich and very aggressive competition in that space.
Like I said before, I think loss carry forward is just a wasteful federal subsidy for unprofitable investments and the Silicon Valley growth at any cost mentality. Uber and Lyft may not pay federal income taxes in my lifetime.
Of course that’s simplified ... budgets don’t exist in a vacuum but taxes get passed on. You raise taxes and consumers pay for them in goods and services. If you disagree then your in denial with basic economics. It’s like the people who think these tariffs aren’t just hidden taxes on the populace.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Of course that’s simplified ... budgets don’t exist in a vacuum but taxes get passed on. You raise taxes and consumers pay for them in goods and services. If you disagree then your in denial with basic economics. It’s like the people who think these tariffs aren’t just hidden taxes on the populace.
At the macro level for the economy, I agree. For individual diversified big companies, I think it's less clear.

I agree regarding tariffs. Worse, they're typically a transfer of wealth to uncompetitive companies by increased prices and profits they haven't earned.
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
Yeah, those socialist teachers working for $30k..... Oh, and with a Masters they can make $40k!!!!!!
Where do you get your numbers? Around here a first year teacher makes more than that and the average teacher more than double that for nine months work! Even the teachers doing a crappy job. And that doesn't include a generous benefits package and a generous pension on retirement. Oh and lets not forget that no matter how incompetent or lazy they can't be fired.

"How much does a Public School Teacher earn in Los Angeles, CA? The average Public School Teacher salary in Los Angeles, CA is $64,187 as of March 28, 2019, but the range typically falls between $56,034 and $74,097".​
https://www1.salary.com/CA/Los-Angeles/Public-School-Teacher-Salary.html

It may shock you to learn that in 2019, the average cost of a 4 year degree can be more than $40k per year? Yeah, waiting tables will surely cover that, plus cost of living....
My advice is to find a cheaper school or combination of community college followed by a less pricey university, or find a job with employer paid tuition assistance, or get a better job for now and save your money up for tuition. Or find another career that pays better (plumber?) because nobody owes you a living.

That is supreme arrogance to suggest that the ever shrinking alotment for WIC and food stamps are somehow magically supposed to end up in the stomach of a child.
Where does all of that taxpayer bought food go? Have you ever been in a grocery store checkout line ready to pay for your own food while the customer ahead of you holds up the line while paying with WIC checks and a food stamps EBT card? I experience that at least once a week and they are eating darned good. Again poor families in the US do not suffer for a lack of food and no regurgitation and repetition of talking points changes that fact.

Must have been nice for you to have worked, only in high school, and not had to help pay rent.
Only in High school? I helped my stepfather with his janitorial service and cleaned client bathrooms at 10. At 18, a month after HS graduation I was working and supporting myself in a fleabag studio apartment and I didn't ask my family for a dime. I built a career and saved and attended community colleges before going on to a university and completed my dual major while working 40-50 and sometimes more hours per week. No parties, just work, go to class, study, catch a few hours of sleep and then back to work.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Where does all of that taxpayer bought food go? Have you ever been in a grocery store checkout line ready to pay for your own food while the customer ahead of you holds up the line while paying with WIC checks and a food stamps EBT card? I experience that at least once a week and they are eating darned good. Again poor families in the US do not suffer for a lack of food and no regurgitation and repetition of talking points changes that fact.
My favorite happening is when a person in front of me has two orders. One food, which is paid for with an EBC card, and the other is beer, wine, and or liquor. That just happened to me again this week. I think food stamps are sometimes subsidizing alcoholism.

I think we do have to work on improving nutrition and living conditions for a lot of school-age children. The question is how to deal with some parents.
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
This is a thread of discussion about how to fix our political system and now it has dissolved into $hitting on the poor while we have a President who has wasted $100M of our tax dollars playing golf..... And you guys are complaining about food stamps and waiting in line at the grocery store?

Again poor families in the US do not suffer for a lack of food and no regurgitation and repetition of talking points changes that fact.
This is truly despicable arrogance, willful ignorance, and a clear identifier of any person who has no regard for their fellow citizens, let alone, CHILDREN.

Millions of children in this country go to bed hungry. And all this page 6 seems to show is a group of people (5, maybe) that either consider that 'fake news' or simply do not care. Thanks for identifying yourselves.
 
R

R.Elder

Audioholic
This is a thread of discussion about how to fix our political system and now it has dissolved into $hitting on the poor while we have a President who has wasted $100M of our tax dollars playing golf..... And you guys are complaining about food stamps and waiting in line at the grocery store?



This is truly despicable arrogance, willful ignorance, and a clear identifier of any person who has no regard for their fellow citizens, let alone, CHILDREN.

Millions of children in this country go to bed hungry. And all this page 6 seems to show is a group of people (5, maybe) that either consider that 'fake news' or simply do not care. Thanks for identifying yourselves.
Come on down off that high horse buddy. I don’t think anyone wants children to go hungry... imagine that. What we’re saying is that you’re using hyperbole and making things out to be much worse than they are or at least that’s what I’m saying.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
This is a thread of discussion about how to fix our political system and now it has dissolved into $hitting on the poor while we have a President who has wasted $100M of our tax dollars playing golf..... And you guys are complaining about food stamps and waiting in line at the grocery store?



This is truly despicable arrogance, willful ignorance, and a clear identifier of any person who has no regard for their fellow citizens, let alone, CHILDREN.

Millions of children in this country go to bed hungry. And all this page 6 seems to show is a group of people (5, maybe) that either consider that 'fake news' or simply do not care. Thanks for identifying yourselves.
Seeing people pay for steaks, booze & cigarettes with WIC and EBT is due to the politicians who voted to allow it, so this can't be separated from the original topic. I have seen it, too and in at least one case, the person reeked of booze and had the checker pull out the coupons because they were drunk or couldn't count. Tell me that's OK. Go ahead. These people were middle-aged, too- they had plenty of time to learn to read, write, count, etc.

However, those are isolated cases. Many kids don't eat because they're homeless- whose fault is that? Certainly not theirs.

Part of the problem is that neither side wants to own this and there's no agreement on the outside over who owns it. One side shouts that it's all because of the Republicans, usually using name-calling in their diatribe while ignoring the effect their own side has had in this. Both sides are at fault and nobody seems to be able to come up with an equitable solution, so they just blame each other.

If you want to keep track-

https://presidentialgolftracker.com/
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
This is a thread of discussion about how to fix our political system and now it has dissolved into $hitting on the poor while we have a President who has wasted $100M of our tax dollars playing golf..... And you guys are complaining about food stamps and waiting in line at the grocery store?

This is truly despicable arrogance, willful ignorance, and a clear identifier of any person who has no regard for their fellow citizens, let alone, CHILDREN.

Millions of children in this country go to bed hungry. And all this page 6 seems to show is a group of people (5, maybe) that either consider that 'fake news' or simply do not care. Thanks for identifying yourselves.
I am complaining about people who don't take responsibility for their lives and expect other people to take responsibility for them. I am not complaining about hungry children. Of course, kids have to be in school to give them food directly; otherwise parents can intercept the aid and the kids still go hungry.

I do find it amusing that on AH we have a "KIlldozzer" who's a communist and a "TheWarrior" who is a bleeding heart.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Let's go back to this link, from Sholling's post-

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/attachments/1555655583159-png.29042/

With 9% of poor households having a second fridge, 22.7% having a separate freezer and 32.2% having more than two TVs, why the hell are poor kids going hungry?

Could it possibly be that the adults are taking care of themselves first and using whatever is left for the kids, could it? Come to MKE and drive around the inner city- you'll see all kinds of newer, shiny cars with custom wheels & tires, paint and a booming stereo, parked in front of houses that barely have any paint left.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Then, there's this-

http://federalsafetynet.com/welfare-fraud.html

The terminology for Welfare is BS, too- they call Unemployment, Worker's Comp and Medicaid 'Welfare' in' the link- Worker's Comp and Unemployment come from the insurance paid by employers for each and Medicare/Medicaid comes from taxed wages but too many think of it as "it comes from the government", so they have no problem gaming the systems.

https://www.lexingtonlaw.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/2018-federal-welfare-budget.png
 
R

R.Elder

Audioholic
Then, there's this-
http://federalsafetynet.com/welfare-fraud.html
The terminology for Welfare is BS, too- they call Unemployment, Worker's Comp and Medicaid 'Welfare' in' the link- Worker's Comp and Unemployment come from the insurance paid by employers for each and Medicare/Medicaid comes from taxed wages but too many think of it as "it comes from the government", so they have no problem gaming the systems.
https://www.lexingtonlaw.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/2018-federal-welfare-budget.png
That’s partly due to the negative association of the term. Technically they are programs that benefit the *general welfare. It’s like the term entitlement... unnecessary negative connotations.
 
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sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
This is truly despicable arrogance, willful ignorance, and a clear identifier of any person who has no regard for their fellow citizens, let alone, CHILDREN.

Millions of children in this country go to bed hungry. And all this page 6 seems to show is a group of people (5, maybe) that either consider that 'fake news' or simply do not care. Thanks for identifying yourselves.
You've been wrong about pretty much every statement and claim so far in this thread so once again you revert to ad hominem attacks. The fact remains that 1 in 5 children do not really go to bed hungry unless their parents choose to keep them hungry while wasting government and private charity benefits on drugs, alcohol or gambling, teachers make more than $30k per year, and the poor in this country live better than the middle class in most of the world.

https://www.heritage.org/poverty-and-inequality/report/air-conditioning-cable-tv-and-xbox-what-poverty-the-united-states

Finally, in this economy nobody need remain poor if they are willing to get off their butts and put in the effort to make something of their lives. Oh and if you really and truly want to boost the wages of low income workers then cut off wage competition from imported (legal and illegal) labor. Ending imported labor wage competition would boast the heck out of the pay and benefits earned by the poor and working class American citizens. Now let's see if the wellbeing of poor and working class Americans really is important to you. While we're at it let's rescue poor inner city kids from horrible schools infested with horrible 'don't give a darned' can't be fired teachers and administrators, and let parents choose charter schools and vouchers for private schools. Imagine a world where 90% of inner city kids graduate HS with a diploma that they can read and able to do math on a 10th grade level, instead of the less than 50% in some cities. Imagine what that would do to reduce poverty.

https://nypost.com/2016/01/17/city-pays-exiled-teachers-to-snooze-as-rubber-rooms-return/
https://www.foxnews.com/story/high-school-graduation-rates-plummet-below-50-percent-in-some-u-s-cities
 
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