Marantz (and Denon) Eco Mode

[KEW]

I ordered one of the Marantz NR-1605 slim receivers from A4L. One of the features is "Eco Mode".

Our new advanced Eco amplifier mode adjusts power consumption according to signal level, and there's an on-screen Eco Mode display that lets you see the power consumption reduction in real time.

I have done a couple of Google searches and really cannot find out much about it.
One forum had a similar question and the only useful info was one guy stated that his AVR ran 10 degrees cooler with it on.

It has On, Off,and Auto settings. I do not want to be bothered with needing to turn it on or off depending on whether I am just putting music into my house (On) or doing loud and/or critical listening (Off). So I would leave it off. However, if the auto setting is well designed, that would be great!

Does anyone know much of anything about it?
TIA!

 

[herbu]

Sorry, Kurt. Not a clue. My instinct would be to leave it OFF.

 

[VonMagnum]

Eco mode reduces power consumption and more importantly HEAT output dramatically. I've found no audible difference with it turned on, but the top of the receiver is probably 10-15 degrees cooler on average (even after player a loud movie) with it full on even compare to the "auto" setting. In some install environments without enough air flow, that could make a real difference in the life of the AVR, IMO. If there's a down side, I've not noticed it yet in my (admittedly limited) testing.

 

[ryanosaur]

What's up, KEW?
I am currently using mine, ON. But I also have my front 5 channels on external amps... and only my rears on the AVR.
Yes, the AVR definitely runs cooler with the ECO setting ON, for me, with my AC Infinity cooling unit, its a 5degree difference, and with ECO ON, the cooling unit barely comes into play. When I watch something in full surround and use the AVR Amp, I have not noticed any change in its operation (i.e.output level), but then the Rears are probably the least taxing in terms programming content, so in a way I don't expect there to be a significant change there. (In a few months when I get Atmos .4 set up and am running those off the AVR too, that may provide a better test as to whether there is a limiting factor.)
IIRC, @PENG mentioned something about the AUTO setting allowing more power through with increase in the volume, therefore seemingly defeating the purpose of the ECO mode as its supposed to reduce power consumption, as I understand it.

Needless to say, I'm glad you posted this as I am eager to learn more about it myself!

Cheers!

 

[Bookmark]

From my Marantz manual. Personally I do not have heat issues since the AVR is out in the open, so no need for a fan. I cannot remember the exact point Auto switches over (somewhere around -30 to -20 I believe) but that or OFF are probably your best options. Try it and see if you like, it has an on screen indicator

 

[everettT]

Eco mode bad as it effects performance on amps and displays ability to deliver their full potential.

 

[highfigh]

I ordered one of the Marantz NR-1605 slim receivers from A4L. One of the features is "Eco Mode".



I have done a couple of Google searches and really cannot find out much about it.
One forum had a similar question and the only useful info was one guy stated that his AVR ran 10 degrees cooler with it on.

It has On, Off,and Auto settings. I do not want to be bothered with needing to turn it on or off depending on whether I am just putting music into my house (On) or doing loud and/or critical listening (Off). So I would leave it off. However, if the auto setting is well designed, that would be great!

Does anyone know much of anything about it?
TIA!

I can't see why 10 degrees would make a big difference in component life- in fact, if it does, I would have doubts about the choice of components. I'm pretty sure it's more about energy consumption in the same way killing off plasma was- some pinhead in California decided that we need to save 5W/hour and he has a friend with influence.

Having said that, It's always a good idea to use less energy, but with LED lighting, the difference won't show up on many power company bills because they just raise their rates when people use less energy.

 

[KEW]

I can't see why 10 degrees would make a big difference in component life- in fact, if it does, I would have doubts about the choice of components. I'm pretty sure it's more about energy consumption in the same way killing off plasma was- some pinhead in California decided that we need to save 5W/hour and he has a friend with influence.

Having said that, It's always a good idea to use less energy, but with LED lighting, the difference won't show up on many power company bills because they just raise their rates when people use less energy.

We are talking 10 degrees at the cover!
I'm sure removal of the cover and a more precise survey of temperatures would show some rather substantial concentrations of heat in certain locations. I have no idea what the actual transfer function would be, but ten degrees at the cover equates to many more degrees at the precise heat source where the component would be stressed by heat.

 

[PENG]

From my Marantz manual. Personally I do not have heat issues since the AVR is out in the open, so no need for a fan. I cannot remember the exact point Auto switches over (somewhere around -30 to -20 I believe) but that or OFF are probably your best options. Try it and see if you like, it has an on screen indicator
View attachment 28212
View attachment 28213

I posted the original avs link on this topic before more than once, but the one below (please scroll down to post#23) should answer more questions, hopefully..

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/time-for-an-upgrade-and-need-some-advice.112870/page-2#post-1276426

I am not sure if it varies slightly among different models, mine switched over at volume -42. It is not hard to find out, you just need to be patient because there is a time delay and need to be refreshed manually (the OSD has to turn off and on) each time you advance the volume by 0.5 dB.

 

[highfigh]

We are talking 10 degrees at the cover!
I'm sure removal of the cover and a more precise survey of temperatures would show some rather substantial concentrations of heat in certain locations. I have no idea what the actual transfer function would be, but ten degrees at the cover equates to many more degrees at the precise heat source where the component would be stressed by heat.

I guess I was assuming the equipment had decent air flow.

 

[PENG]

We are talking 10 degrees at the cover!
I'm sure removal of the cover and a more precise survey of temperatures would show some rather substantial concentrations of heat in certain locations. I have no idea what the actual transfer function would be, but ten degrees at the cover equates to many more degrees at the precise heat source where the component would be stressed by heat.

Are we talking C or F? It's about 5 deg C for me, but it also depends on the ambient temperature and placement, as that would affect thermal equilibrium.

 

[KEW]

What's up, KEW?
I am currently using mine, ON. But I also have my front 5 channels on external amps... and only my rears on the AVR.
Yes, the AVR definitely runs cooler with the ECO setting ON, for me, with my AC Infinity cooling unit, its a 5degree difference, and with ECO ON, the cooling unit barely comes into play. When I watch something in full surround and use the AVR Amp, I have not noticed any change in its operation (i.e.output level), but then the Rears are probably the least taxing in terms programming content, so in a way I don't expect there to be a significant change there. (In a few months when I get Atmos .4 set up and am running those off the AVR too, that may provide a better test as to whether there is a limiting factor.)
IIRC, @PENG mentioned something about the AUTO setting allowing more power through with increase in the volume, therefore seemingly defeating the purpose of the ECO mode as its supposed to reduce power consumption, as I understand it.

Needless to say, I'm glad you posted this as I am eager to learn more about it myself!

Cheers!

Old post, but like you, I have dodged the issue with external amps. Because I am pretty non-chalant about my HT, as long as I have the front L & R on external amps, I leave the ECO mode on. If I was more concerned about getting the last bit of goody out of HT, I would add the center to the external amp list! I am confident that any sound compromise from ECO mode is not going to ruin my surround channel experience!
I must say that I have never noticed any sound issue from the few times I have set-up without external amps and had ECO on auto, but from what I have read, there should be a switching sound as it cuts on and off around the threshold point, so I probably listened to it below that point!

 

[KEW]

Are we talking C or F? It's about 5 deg C for me, but it also depends on the ambient temperature and placement, as that would affect thermal equilibrium.

10 F or ~5 C.

Certainly, if you were in a colder room with good airflow around the amp, you would see a smaller temperature change from employing ECO, than if you were in a warmer room with poor airflow.

 

[KEW]

I guess I was assuming the equipment had decent air flow.

Even with decent air flow, the thermal transfer from the heat source components to the cover is not very efficient. The hottest temperature of the cover essentially matches the temperature of the air (typically an inch or two) above the heat source. Consider the temperature of the air an inch above a stove eye vs the temperature of the stove eye itself!
For an exaggerated analogy (if you ever played with over-clocking),consider the effects of clock speed on the temperature of a CPU vs the change of the temperature at the computer case. This is definitely an exaggerated analogy because so much of the heat is coming from that one heat source, there is forced convection to accelerate getting the heat out of the cabinet, and the case cover is usually larger so the heat gets spread out over a larger area (more thermal mass). But the basic heat transfer physics still apply!

 

[ryanosaur]

I posted this somewhere else when discussing my experimentation with Audyssey:
During normal use, ECO OFF, with fan speed set to Smart On, Medium Speed, the AC Infinity usually reports 82-83F. The fans never engage at full medium speed which would happen at 85F per my settings.
For my last test, I turned the fans off, but left the display on, running Aud only once for the full range of 8 tests, ECO OFF (I did not use it at the time). The AC Infinity Thermostat displayed 113F.
Once finished, I switched the fans to Manual On, Medium Speed, and in about 10 minutes the thermostat was reading in the mid 80s, switched back to my usual Smart On Fan setting and all was back to normal.
With my 5 channels on external amp, listening to multi-channel programming and ECO ON, the thermostat will hover at 79-80, with the fans only kicking on low speed at 80.

 

[highfigh]

Even with decent air flow, the thermal transfer from the heat source components to the cover is not very efficient. The hottest temperature of the cover essentially matches the temperature of the air (typically an inch or two) above the heat source. Consider the temperature of the air an inch above a stove eye vs the temperature of the stove eye itself!
For an exaggerated analogy (if you ever played with over-clocking),consider the effects of clock speed on the temperature of a CPU vs the change of the temperature at the computer case. This is definitely an exaggerated analogy because so much of the heat is coming from that one heat source, there is forced convection to accelerate getting the heat out of the cabinet, and the case cover is usually larger so the heat gets spread out over a larger area (more thermal mass). But the basic heat transfer physics still apply!

When I mentioned good air flow, I was referring to the chimney effect, which doesn't happen in a low cabinet but it isn't always possible, which is when active cooling should be used.

 

[Bookmark]

I am not sure if it varies slightly among different models, mine switched over at volume -42. It is not hard to find out, you just need to be patient because there is a time delay and need to be refreshed manually (the OSD has to turn off and on) each time you advance the volume by 0.5 dB.

It would be a very poor design that had a specific volume for Eco Auto/On. As it is, you can manipulate the overall volume by adjusting the individual source levels, the speaker levels and the output levels in addition to the main volume control. You can also limit the range of the volume control both to initial and peak . The Eco mode works off a threshold of power usage. Denon/Marantz could probably tell you an exact figure, but while it relates to volume it is not a specific figure. It relates to how many watts are being used at any point, what amps are active and driven, the specific source and if more that one zone is active simultaneously.

If the AVR was only acting as a processor and the amps are off or set to external, then in all likelihood the Eco mode would never switch, regardless of the volume setting. Using the Eco mode has just one real problem and that is if you are around the transition point with the volume then it will likely toggle repeatedly depending upon the signal source. There is probably a margin above/below for it to engage or disengage.

 

[PENG]

It would be a very poor design that had a specific volume for Eco Auto/On. As it is, you can manipulate the overall volume by adjusting the individual source levels, the speaker levels and the output levels in addition to the main volume control. You can also limit the range of the volume control both to initial and peak . The Eco mode works off a threshold of power usage. Denon/Marantz could probably tell you an exact figure, but while it relates to volume it is not a specific figure. It relates to how many watts are being used at any point, what amps are active and driven, the specific source and if more that one zone is active simultaneously.

If the AVR was only acting as a processor and the amps are off or set to external, then in all likelihood the Eco mode would never switch, regardless of the volume setting. Using the Eco mode has just one real problem and that is if you are around the transition point with the volume then it will likely toggle repeatedly depending upon the signal source. There is probably a margin above/below for it to engage or disengage.

The auto mode based on volume setting is a poor design, but to me, it is better than nothing. The ECO "ON" mode is 100% functional when the internal amps are not used.

 

[M Code]

The Econ Mode was a mandatory CE requirement for Western Europe...
So Denon/Marantz implemented this in their firmware on a global basis..
Europe standards for watts consumption during stand-by operation are very rigid, also if the AVR is on for 4 hours and no source playing it will automatically shutdown to its stand-by mode....

Just my $0.02...

 

[slipperybidness]

So much talk about ECO mode, saving a few watts, and prolonging the life of your gear.

Come on, live a little!

It's like having a decent sports car and not putting the pedal to the medal!

I have never once considered putting my 4400 into ECO mode! Why would I compromise to run a few degrees cooler? That simply is not on my priority list.

I never had ECO options on my 12 year old Pio Elite, and it is still a robust amp and still running strong with daily use since it was new.

By the time a few degrees warmer kills my gear, it will likely be obsolete and ready to replace anyway.