Home theater amp advice...

[03kbredfire]

I have wanted a good pre/pro for a long time so I could power up my very difficult to drive speakers properly. The speakers present two impedance dips of 0.9-1 ohm at ~7kHz and again at a more difficult area of 0.8 ohm at ~32Hz. I have opted for a Yamaha CX-A5200 as my pre/pro of choice. I struggled to find the right amp that made sense for me. I landed on Parasound JC1's to take on the task. I would like to power the rest of the system with something that will match the linearity of the Parasound's. Short list is A51 Parasound, Emotiva, ATI or Anthem. I would consider the Monolith if I knew more about them. They seem hard to find good data on. I do not oppose other suitable but price is a concern. I would rather have more channels than needed for future upgradability.

 

[shadyJ]

Are you saying your speakers dip down below 1 ohm at 32 Hz and 7 kHz? Because, if so, what you need is better speakers, not beefier amps. A speaker with an electrical load like that is just terribly designed. I can't believe anyone in good conscience would sell something like that. If you are really stuck on this speakers, the amps I would look to drive something like that are pro-audio beasts like the upper end amps from QSC, Crown, or SpeakerPower. But if you want something that doesn't look industrial, you will need to save your pennies for a Burmester 909 ($75k).

 

[03kbredfire]

Thank you for reply. I have owned since new (over 30 years) and designed by a great designer, Arnie Nudell, with this as a known flaw. The speakers have a switch to add resistance to the circuit to mitigate the concern. I listen with the switch engaged but have listened to try with switch in the "extended" mode. They sound spectacular when set in this mode. I would love to hear them play to their full potential. With switch in the extended mode, everything has just shut down. I am happy that the protection circuits perform this function but I have amps that I believe will drive this load but am now looking for additional channels for the rest of system as mentioned in first post.

 

[03kbredfire]

Posted below is what I believe to be an accurate chart of impedance characteristics. They are a challenge and were awarded the nickname of amp-killers. I know that the Anthem line can supposedly drive a near short and that was on my shortlist. I settled on the JC1's. I suspect that they will perform well. I have not tried them yet.

 

[highfigh]

Posted below is what I believe to be an accurate chart of impedance characteristics. They are a challenge and were awarded the nickname of amp-killers. I know that the Anthem line can supposedly drive a near short and that was on my shortlist. I settled on the JC1's. I suspect that they will perform well. I have not tried them yet.

View attachment 28111

That's not a very responsible way to design speakers.

 

[shadyJ]

Must have been one of the old Infinity speakers. Cool designs, but ridiculous electrical loads.

 

[PENG]

Thank you for reply. I have owned since new (over 30 years) and designed by a great designer, Arnie Nudell, with this as a known flaw. The speakers have a switch to add resistance to the circuit to mitigate the concern. I listen with the switch engaged but have listened to try with switch in the "extended" mode. They sound spectacular when set in this mode. I would love to hear them play to their full potential. With switch in the extended mode, everything has just shut down. I am happy that the protection circuits perform this function but I have amps that I believe will drive this load but am now looking for additional channels for the rest of system as mentioned in first post.

So what amp(s) have you been using over the 30 years?

 

[lovinthehd]

Don't be shy, be specific about what speakers the amp(s) need to drive. What's the budget?

 

[03kbredfire]

So what amp(s) have you been using over the 30 years?

I have only ever ran Yamaha receivers to drive these speakers, but as mentioned they have a switch which mitigates the impedance issues. The down side is the speakers do not perform at their best. I have had other amps, old Adcom gear 565's and 5500 series but they have different gains and cannot work well together as a bi-amp option. So I am settled as of now on the JC1's. I have wondered if I should just get for ease of cohesiveness, the Parasound A51 or A52 to complete a 7.1 system.

 

[03kbredfire]

Don't be shy, be specific about what speakers the amp(s) need to drive. What's the budget?

Not shy. The rest of current system is kappa 6.1's in the rear and Ascend Acoustics Horizon as a center. Money is always a concern, if it is not for others, well, send some my direction and I will get whatever the money given supports. I have other Ascend acoustics for side surrounds or front presence. All speakers run a ribbon variant and smooth mids.

 

[lovinthehd]

I have only ever ran Yamaha receivers to drive these speakers, but as mentioned they have a switch which mitigates the impedance issues. The down side is the speakers do not perform at their best. I have had other amps, old Adcom gear 565's and 5500 series but they have different gains and cannot work well together as a bi-amp option. So I am settled as of now on the JC1's. I have wondered if I should just get for ease of cohesiveness, the Parasound A51 or A52 to complete a 7.1 system.

You mean the impedance switch on an avr? That doesn't really mitigate impedance issues, more like complicates them...general advice is to run them at their higher impedance settings to allow amp to have full power. What Yamaha receiver models did you use? Where does the bi-amp come in?

Not shy. The rest of current system is kappa 6.1's in the rear and Ascend Acoustics Horizon as a center. Money is always a concern, if it is not for others, well, send some my direction and I will get whatever the money given supports. I have other Ascend acoustics for side surrounds or front presence. All speakers run a ribbon variant and smooth mids.

Just teasing a bit, just hard to recommend amps without knowing the speakers. I love the Horizon (have a set of Sierra1s, a set of 170SEs and two sets of 200SEs), not really familiar with the Kappas.

 

[03kbredfire]

Must have been one of the old Infinity speakers. Cool designs, but ridiculous electrical loads.

Yes. Kappa 9's. I have listened to several other options when thinking to replace but to my ears, I cannot justify parting with them. Neither can the processing unit which usually sees these speakers as flat (autocorrection/tuning) as anything I have ever tried.

 

[03kbredfire]

You mean the impedance switch on an avr? That doesn't really mitigate impedance issues, more like complicates them...general advice is to run them at their higher impedance settings to allow amp to have full power. What Yamaha receiver models did you use? Where does the bi-amp come in?

The switch you see on the right is a set of resistors in the circuit to mitigate dips in response curve. This was on the Kappa 9(a), which was the last year of this speaker. When engaged, nearly any amp can drive. The downside is sonic purity must be compromised. I have listened with switch set to extended which is where the low impedance values come into play. I have an R-V2700 which was the last year prior to cheapening the power supplies. I have just purchased a CX-A5200. I ran an outboard Adcom to drive this speaker but when using Yamaha gear which is set to around 1 volt of output and the amp wants to see 2-3 volt as the 565 does, it does not work well at all.

Just teasing a bit, just hard to recommend amps without knowing the speakers. I love the Horizon (have a set of Sierra1s, a set of 170SEs and two sets of 200SEs), not really familiar with the Kappas.

I have a piano black set of Sierra 2's which I have not used from time of purchase.

 

[lovinthehd]

I have a piano black set of Sierra 2's which I have not used from time of purchase.

Dang, don't you have a secondary setup or something? My Ascends are my bedroom setup. That's how I put older gear to use, just enable another room Have three multich setups and two 2ch.

 

[PENG]

I have only ever ran Yamaha receivers to drive these speakers, but as mentioned they have a switch which mitigates the impedance issues. The down side is the speakers do not perform at their best. I have had other amps, old Adcom gear 565's and 5500 series but they have different gains and cannot work well together as a bi-amp option. So I am settled as of now on the JC1's. I have wondered if I should just get for ease of cohesiveness, the Parasound A51 or A52 to complete a 7.1 system.

The A51 or even the A52 (depend on distance and spl required) can handle the other speakers but not the amp killers. The JC1 should do okay as long as you are careful. It is hard to say how much spl you can get from those and how much current you can feed them, without knowing their sensitivity, your seating distance, spl required and the killer's power handling limit.

 

[03kbredfire]

The A51 or even the A52 (depend on distance and spl required) can handle the other speakers but not the amp killers. The JC1 should do okay as long as you are careful. It is hard to say how much spl you can get from those and how much current you can feed them, without knowing their sensitivity, your seating distance, spl required and the killer's power handling limit.

Another error in the original literature was the sensitivity was listed at 102 db which is clearly wrong but some have suggested that they are at a more normal 88-89 db sensitivity. The seated position is 15 feet from speakers. The rated power handling is 60-340 rms.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

After 30 years I think you deserve new speakers.

Besides, the biggest improvements will be the speakers, not the amps.

 

[03kbredfire]

After 30 years I think you deserve new speakers.

Besides, the biggest improvements will be the speakers, not the amps.

Before I opt for new speakers I would require two things. 1. The new ones should sound better than these. I have looked around a lot and this first prerequisite has been very difficult to obtain. The only ones that have come close are the Revel's and the Focal's that I listened to. The Focals are quite bright but am intrigued with the sound. I am quite curious of the Legacy Aeris I think this would perform quite well but have not heard these. I have found B&W to be too bright and fatiguing. 2. This is the more difficult one to achieve. The very slight improvement in sound has come at a price that is objectionable to me. I do not wish to part with these for the 1000-1500 that I may receive for used only to pay 25-30,000 or more to replace. I would rather just drive these properly.

So for me, I would really prefer for now to run these and enjoy them while powering up the rest of the system with a suitable power supply. As always I appreciate the advise. I am hoping that I will get some input to my original question. Let me finish by saying that I also agree that I deserve new speakers. I will need a GoFundMe account to make this happen. Will you be the first to pitch in?

 

[everettT]

Not sure what your budget would be, but Salk Sound would be on my list (I'm an owner, but no bias lol). They have a few full range options from 6k to 10k with any finish option you can imagine.
This is the one I have
http://www.salksound.com/model.php?model=Song3+Encore

 

[03kbredfire]

Not sure what your budget would be, but Salk Sound would be on my list (I'm an owner, but no bias lol). They have a few full range options from 6k to 10k with any finish option you can imagine.
This is the one I have
http://www.salksound.com/model.php?model=Song3+Encore

View attachment 28128

I have to agree. I love that they utilize SB Acoustics beryllium domes. These have some of the best sound characteristics I have ever seen. In fact the whole Satori line looks awesome. This would have to be one to have on the short list. Since I have all speakers with ribbons I am also drawn to the Salk with RAAL ribbons which may closely match my Ascend Acoustics Horizon center with RAAL 70-20. Yes, this sends me down a bad path. I may have to hate you for enticing me with these. I have spoken with Jim once in the recent past on these and yeah, he seems so real to deal with. It is tough to decide between the beryllium domes and RAAL ribbons. As I am looking to have great sound with very solid output, I am looking at the higher sensitivity units. The SS8's draw me in like a moth to a flame. Really like the passive use to assist the output of 8's while not having a boomy sound and port issues. How are he mids? I'll bet they are fantastic. Nevermind, I know the answer. Everything about this speaker is righteous.