Posted on here before about home theater suggestions...

[Steelers252006]

...and posted a picture of my room, received a ton of good suggestions. So I've decided to set my budget at $5,000 and hire a company to wire it all for me. However, they're pushing Earthquake for all the speakers with a Denon 4500 receiver. I will post a copy of the estimate on here before I pull the trigger to get your thoughts. My room is definitely "challenging", would be a 5.1.4 setup with the TV mounted on the wall with some type of device that swings it out and up, center channel under it on the entertainment center I have in place, four speakers in the ceiling, two back surround sounds mounted on the walls, will push up the couch a tad to optimize the sound....front would be two tower speakers with at least a 12 inch sub. That's where I am right now.

 

[Steelers252006]

...and posted a picture of my room, received a ton of good suggestions. So I've decided to set my budget at $5,000 and hire a company to wire it all for me. However, they're pushing Earthquake for all the speakers with a Denon 4500 receiver. I will post a copy of the estimate on here before I pull the trigger to get your thoughts. My room is definitely "challenging", would be a 5.1.4 setup with the TV mounted on the wall with some type of device that swings it out and up, center channel under it on the entertainment center I have in place, four speakers in the ceiling, two back surround sounds mounted on the walls, will push up the couch a tad to optimize the sound....front would be two tower speakers with at least a 12 inch sub. That's where I am right now.

Here’s some pics of where the speakers will go and the room in general. Again, I've decided on a 5.1.4 setup for sure. I'll try to find the best deal possible on a Denon 4400. From there, tell me what you think I should use to fill it in and the best deal I'll get on it. Also, let me know what you think of the TV mount idea, or is there a better way to get that center channel in there somehow? Thanks so much!! I can't wait to show you pictures (FINALLY) of the finished product when it happens. It's going to be AWESOME!!

 

[ryanosaur]

Hi. I haven't seen your room, but I think this Eathquake is't necessarily the best idea. You can do a lot with 5K and a 5.4 rig.

 

[Steelers252006]

Hi. I haven't seen your room, but I think this Eathquake is't necessarily the best idea. You can do a lot with 5K and a 5.4 rig.

My name is Ryan, too, by the way.

Yeah, man, tell me what you think. What sub should I look at? Which tower speakers? Which atmos speakers? Which center channel and back surrounds? I think AV receiver Denon 4400 is hard to beat, so I think I'm at least good there.

What else do I need to buy or should I consider? Any certain type of wire? Anything I should put on the walls to maximize sound? I do have a neighbor, too, that was a builder up north, can fix or build ANYTHING, and he could do this set up for me, just would provide him a diagram on Atmost 5.1.4.

SO EXCITED!!

 

[ryanosaur]

Here’s some pics of where the speakers will go and the room in general. Again, I've decided on a 5.1.4 setup for sure. I'll try to find the best deal possible on a Denon 4400. From there, tell me what you think I should use to fill it in and the best deal I'll get on it. Also, let me know what you think of the TV mount idea, or is there a better way to get that center channel in there somehow? Thanks so much!! I can't wait to show you pictures (FINALLY) of the finished product when it happens. It's going to be AWESOME!!

nice timing

 

[ryanosaur]

You're right about the potential for challenge. Let me ask this... how long are you anticipating being in that space? Talking 1-2 years, longer? Just asking to gauge your level of commitment to spending a lot of dedicated money there.
That said... it looks like an upstairs space? What's below you? Neighbors you need to be sensitive about?

What are actual room dimensions?

And are you really set on the installation angle? Not a bad thing if you are, but consider maybe just having the ceiling speakers and wiring installed if it fits your budget. I'd rather buy nicer speakers, myself! Take good care of them and they will last you a very long time. So maybe consider doing your standard 5.x now, and save the Atmos installation for later?

So, for the first one... as I understand Atmos... I don't think you're going to have huge success building the most effective .4 atmos set up, just because of the spacing near your LP. Best usage for .4 would be Top Front and Top Rear. That latter is right out. So maybe you could do Front Height and Top Front... that could work. Check out this for better understanding of your standard Dolby Atmos layouts.

Center Speaker, above TV is fine, angled toward you. you can buy wall mount gear and DIY as long as you are smart about it: find studs and use lag bolts and good mounting hardware. Or same with the TV. You can find Sloped ceiling adapters and VESA mounts that use Aluminum poles with NPT.

Towers: I'm going to leave this open for a moment... but look around online and get an idea of what else is on the market first... Hell, even a trip to Best Buy/Magnolia just to hear some gear is a good start!
What I will add, though, is that you want your front three to match for cohesive sound.

Surround placement: I would almost recommend getting the "Bipole" style speakers for your space... as things are tight, this will allow sound to not beam straight at your LP. That said, you can get regular "Monopole" speakers, too, without concern. I just have a feeling that the dispersion some of those Bipoles will offer is going to be welcome. And I would recommend putting them on stands rather than in-wall... if possibe. Off to each side, a little higher than your ears and at 90-110degrees (little behind you (refer back to that Dolby Diagram)).

AVR: look at any of last-years models for the most bang for the buck. Marantz SR5012 or 6012, or the corresponding Denon models... you basically need 9-channel processing and amplification for what you want to do. Beyond that, just make certain its compatible with whatever video you might want: Dolby Vision, HDR, and the latest HDMI protocols.

Subs. Definitely a smallish room. Subs work with room volume, whereas speaker loudness is "direct distance from." If you can figure your room volume, you can shop more smartly, but I'm going to guess you don't need a massive sub. You may very well want to consider two, though, for the ability to help even out the bass.

My instinct is that SVS might be good for you. Great prices, good value, excellent customer service. Prime towers, Prime Center and Prime Satellites for under $1550 shipped. Add a sub or two and save a little more. Add 2 PB2000, and you're at just over 3K. Plenty of money for your receiver and extra equipment. ***I AM NOT trying to sell you on this, just putting an idea out there to give you counterpoint to what you were looking at.

Share the quote when you get it. And give us the room size! We will gladly help you sort through things!

What would they charge to install your room?

 

[Steelers252006]

Which SVS exactly are you talking about? So you don’t think I can make atnos work? I can put the center channel ABOVE the TV? And I’m not sure what bipole is. Can you clarify a little more? My goal is Atnos. If I can’t get it, I’ll rethink my entire setup and will aim more at 5.1. But, man, would I love Atnos. Thing that put it in my head in the first place was the purchase of my Xbox One X when it came out. I had measured my room before. I think if I had to look and guess, I’d say 12-14 feet wide by 25-30 feet long with those funky angled ceilings. Certainly a longer room.

 

[Steelers252006]

You're right about the potential for challenge. Let me ask this... how long are you anticipating being in that space? Talking 1-2 years, longer? Just asking to gauge your level of commitment to spending a lot of dedicated money there.
That said... it looks like an upstairs space? What's below you? Neighbors you need to be sensitive about?

What are actual room dimensions?

And are you really set on the installation angle? Not a bad thing if you are, but consider maybe just having the ceiling speakers and wiring installed if it fits your budget. I'd rather buy nicer speakers, myself! Take good care of them and they will last you a very long time. So maybe consider doing your standard 5.x now, and save the Atmos installation for later?

So, for the first one... as I understand Atmos... I don't think you're going to have huge success building the most effective .4 atmos set up, just because of the spacing near your LP. Best usage for .4 would be Top Front and Top Rear. That latter is right out. So maybe you could do Front Height and Top Front... that could work. Check out this for better understanding of your standard Dolby Atmos layouts.

Center Speaker, above TV is fine, angled toward you. you can buy wall mount gear and DIY as long as you are smart about it: find studs and use lag bolts and good mounting hardware. Or same with the TV. You can find Sloped ceiling adapters and VESA mounts that use Aluminum poles with NPT.

Towers: I'm going to leave this open for a moment... but look around online and get an idea of what else is on the market first... Hell, even a trip to Best Buy/Magnolia just to hear some gear is a good start!
What I will add, though, is that you want your front three to match for cohesive sound.

Surround placement: I would almost recommend getting the "Bipole" style speakers for your space... as things are tight, this will allow sound to not beam straight at your LP. That said, you can get regular "Monopole" speakers, too, without concern. I just have a feeling that the dispersion some of those Bipoles will offer is going to be welcome. And I would recommend putting them on stands rather than in-wall... if possibe. Off to each side, a little higher than your ears and at 90-110degrees (little behind you (refer back to that Dolby Diagram)).

AVR: look at any of last-years models for the most bang for the buck. Marantz SR5012 or 6012, or the corresponding Denon models... you basically need 9-channel processing and amplification for what you want to do. Beyond that, just make certain its compatible with whatever video you might want: Dolby Vision, HDR, and the latest HDMI protocols.

Subs. Definitely a smallish room. Subs work with room volume, whereas speaker loudness is "direct distance from." If you can figure your room volume, you can shop more smartly, but I'm going to guess you don't need a massive sub. You may very well want to consider two, though, for the ability to help even out the bass.

My instinct is that SVS might be good for you. Great prices, good value, excellent customer service. Prime towers, Prime Center and Prime Satellites for under $1550 shipped. Add a sub or two and save a little more. Add 2 PB2000, and you're at just over 3K. Plenty of money for your receiver and extra equipment. ***I AM NOT trying to sell you on this, just putting an idea out there to give you counterpoint to what you were looking at.

Share the quote when you get it. And give us the room size! We will gladly help you sort through things!

What would they charge to install your room?

I plan on staying quite awhile. ;-)

 

[Steelers252006]

I’ve thought about piecing this together, too, just have a chunk of extra dough at the moment and plan on rocking it for football season next season.

 

[shadyJ]

OK I remember the original thread here. If I remember right, your biggest challenge is not speaker brands but acoustics. That room isn't too friendly for a conventional Atmos system.

I would stick by my original suggestions for speaker types. Use in-wall speakers for the Atmos height channels if possible, and mount them on that slanted surface opposing the seating. Push the seating out a bit. Use small speakers for the rear and side surrounds since they will have very wide dispersion. I would absolutely avoid Earthquake speakers. I would avoid the newest generation of AVR. In fact, I would avoid that installer.

 

[Steelers252006]

OK I remember the original thread here. If I remember right, your biggest challenge is not speaker brands but acoustics. That room isn't too friendly for a conventional Atmos system.

I would stick by my original suggestions for speaker types. Use in-wall speakers for the Atmos height channels if possible, and mount them on that slanted surface opposing the seating. Push the seating out a bit. Use small speakers for the rear and side surrounds since they will have very wide dispersion. I would absolutely avoid Earthquake speakers. I would avoid the newest generation of AVR. In fact, I would avoid that installer.

So tell me exactly which speakers you think for the bill, please. Give me. Few options. Am ready to start buying and get this thing rolling. I’m not sure sides are even an option. So then do 5.1.2? Put Atmos on slant? What about center channel speaker? Should I mount TV and keep center channel on the stand? Is there a better way?

 

[shadyJ]

So tell me exactly which speakers you think for the bill, please. Give me. Few options. Am ready to start buying and get this thing rolling. I’m not sure sides are even an option. So then do 5.1.2? Put Atmos on slant? What about center channel speaker? Should I mount TV and keep center channel on the stand? Is there a better way?

I would agree with a previous suggestion to look at last generation AVRs instead of current generation AVRs. With current generation AVRs you are paying a premium for a new features that you probably won't take advantage of. I would look at last generation AVRs from Yamaha, Denon, and Marantz.

For front stage speakers, you have a healthy budget so there are a lot of ways you can swing here. Some of the more recent speakers that I have been impressed with were the Paradigm Premier line and Outlaw Audio LCR and BLS speakers. The new speakers from RSL Speakers look good, the CG5 series. Ascend Acoustics Sierras look like a solid speaker. Hsu CCB-8 is a terrific design. RBH Impression Elite series is quite good. Other reliably good manufacturers: Monitor Audio, Revel, Philharmonic Audio, SVS, among others.

For subwoofers, I would stick with Hsu Research, Monoprice Monolith, SVS, Outlaw Audio, if you can handle larger subs. If you need a smaller sub, I liked the recent MartinLogan Dynamo subs. I also liked the Paradigm Defiance X series (review forthcoming).

For in-wall speakers for the Atmos Height channels, I would look at maybe Hsu HIW speakers or RSL C34E speakers.

Given your room layout, I would stick with 5.1.2. I suppose you don't really need small speakers in that case, but there is no sense in getting monster surrounds. I would just look at normal bookshelf speakers.

Regarding your TV vs center speaker, sorry to say this, but that TV cabinet is really in the way. I would get rid of it, put the TV on a mount, and place a center speaker underneath on some kind of mount or stand. Maybe replace that big TV stand with two small rack shelfs that leave plenty of space inbetween for a good center speaker. If you did that you could actually use a good bookshelf speaker as a center instead of a horizontal center speaker as well.

Also, like I said before, I would move that coffee table out of there. That is bound to be pretty damaging for the acoustics at your listening position vs the speaker position.

 

[ryanosaur]

First, Shady is one of the top guys here. I've learned a lot from him, and, that I have a lot more to learn!

So you don’t think I can make atnos work?

I did not say that. I said you can, but it might not be the most effective. You need space for atmos to work its best, above you listening position especially. If you could change your room 90degree, you'd have much better success building that out if that is your main goal

I can put the center channel ABOVE the TV?

Yes. Above or below. If Center isn't too heavy, they even make shelves that mount to the VESA inserts in the back of your TV for both above and beneath... there's a lot of stuff out there if you look for what is right

And I’m not sure what bipole is

Bipole emanates sound in two opposing directions.

I plan on staying quite awhile.

Cool. So investing in an installation makes sense. I agree with Shady though: don't use that company. Hell, if you're handy, maybe you can DIY. You, a good friend, and some Beer and Pizza. Just take some time to learn about the installation process. Hell, you should do that just to make certain you aren't getting ripped off my that company!

I’ve thought about piecing this together, too

This can be a smart approach. But know what you are doing before you do it: shop smart, and you only shop once!

I’m not sure sides are even an option

??? Atmos relies on the bed layer of surround speakers to work. You really need to at least do those left and right surrounds. Thats why you only see 5.1.x and 7.1.x options listed in that Dolby manual. Some set-ups add more, but the bottom 5 or 7 speakers are constant!

Which SVS exactly are you talking about?

This is just an option. I wanted to put it in front of you so you could compare what they were trying to sell you to something else good and affordable. It can also be a one stop shop for all but your installed speakers.

I am not an in-wall/in-ceiling guy and will not comment on those options. You can google it and find a lot of options. Look at Crutchfield, too, just for ideas. Read an installation manual and learn about the process, as I suggested above.

@shadyJ said:

Use in-wall speakers for the Atmos height channels if possible, and mount them on that slanted surface opposing the seating

Do front height on that slanted wall in front of your couch. If you want .4, you'll need to do in-ceiling, or ceiling mount speakers above and in front of your seated position. This assumes you cannot, or will not rearrange your family/living space.
If you did rearrange, you could line it all up better. Acoustics might still be rough, but your atmos set-up would make a lot more sense!

 

[Steelers252006]

I would agree with a previous suggestion to look at last generation AVRs instead of current generation AVRs. With current generation AVRs you are paying a premium for a new features that you probably won't take advantage of. I would look at last generation AVRs from Yamaha, Denon, and Marantz.

For front stage speakers, you have a healthy budget so there are a lot of ways you can swing here. Some of the more recent speakers that I have been impressed with were the Paradigm Premier line and Outlaw Audio LCR and BLS speakers. The new speakers from RSL Speakers look good, the CG5 series. Ascend Acoustics Sierras look like a solid speaker. Hsu CCB-8 is a terrific design. RBH Impression Elite series is quite good. Other reliably good manufacturers: Monitor Audio, Revel, Philharmonic Audio, SVS, among others.

For subwoofers, I would stick with Hsu Research, Monoprice Monolith, SVS, Outlaw Audio, if you can handle larger subs. If you need a smaller sub, I liked the recent MartinLogan Dynamo subs. I also liked the Paradigm Defiance X series (review forthcoming).

For in-wall speakers for the Atmos Height channels, I would look at maybe Hsu HIW speakers or RSL C34E speakers.

Given your room layout, I would stick with 5.1.2. I suppose you don't really need small speakers in that case, but there is no sense in getting monster surrounds. I would just look at normal bookshelf speakers.

Regarding your TV vs center speaker, sorry to say this, but that TV cabinet is really in the way. I would get rid of it, put the TV on a mount, and place a center speaker underneath on some kind of mount or stand. Maybe replace that big TV stand with two small rack shelfs that leave plenty of space inbetween for a good center speaker. If you did that you could actually use a good bookshelf speaker as a center instead of a horizontal center speaker as well.

Also, like I said before, I would move that coffee table out of there. That is bound to be pretty damaging for the acoustics at your listening position vs the speaker position.

This post is gold, going to be printed and researched as I'm ready to start ordering my pieces.

I will say this, though, and I'm sorry to be redundant, man. I appreciate all your info and help for a dude like me that doesn't know squat about any of this type stuff but wants some decent sound and doesn't want to buy the wrong stuff or get hosed by some installer. I am AS CONFUSED as ever about what the heck I'm going to do here. So I change the room around, it's a completely different install than if I leave it be. It also chops up the room into smaller pieces making it harder to get more people over for football games. And I have a two year old. However, the engine that is driving me on this is the potential for Atmos sound. I know I'm probably a million miles off here, but I really, REALLY want that full "bubble" effect.

So tell me, why a 5.1.2 versus a 5.1.4 again? Why can't I put four speakers in the ceiling to the side of the fan and all pointed at the LP? Move the couch us a little for the rears, move the coffee table, have my two towers in the front...why wouldn't that work again? Also, I have very little room to mount that TV if I leave everything as is. What is the mount I would use then that would push the TV out and up so I could have room to either mount the center channel under it, leave my current stand there in place and put the center channel on it, or build custom shelves? I have an Xbox One X and a Nintendo Switch set up and stored in my stand right now.

Also, how how does this AV receiver run? Should it be housed in the open so it can "breathe"?

Honestly, dude, I could probably ask a million other questions. I know I'm a pain in the ass and am probably overthinking all of this. I think I AM going to go ahead today and order an AV receiver and two towers and maybe a sub, get all of that in place at least. I gotta have something other than this crappy TV sound. It sucks to buy a nice OLED TV and have no sound for sure.

 

[Steelers252006]

This post is gold, going to be printed and researched as I'm ready to start ordering my pieces.

I will say this, though, and I'm sorry to be redundant, man. I appreciate all your info and help for a dude like me that doesn't know squat about any of this type stuff but wants some decent sound and doesn't want to buy the wrong stuff or get hosed by some installer. I am AS CONFUSED as ever about what the heck I'm going to do here. So I change the room around, it's a completely different install than if I leave it be. It also chops up the room into smaller pieces making it harder to get more people over for football games. And I have a two year old. However, the engine that is driving me on this is the potential for Atmos sound. I know I'm probably a million miles off here, but I really, REALLY want that full "bubble" effect.

So tell me, why a 5.1.2 versus a 5.1.4 again? Why can't I put four speakers in the ceiling to the side of the fan and all pointed at the LP? Move the couch us a little for the rears, move the coffee table, have my two towers in the front...why wouldn't that work again? Also, I have very little room to mount that TV if I leave everything as is. What is the mount I would use then that would push the TV out and up so I could have room to either mount the center channel under it, leave my current stand there in place and put the center channel on it, or build custom shelves? I have an Xbox One X and a Nintendo Switch set up and stored in my stand right now.

Also, how how does this AV receiver run? Should it be housed in the open so it can "breathe"?

Honestly, dude, I could probably ask a million other questions. I know I'm a pain in the ass and am probably overthinking all of this. I think I AM going to go ahead today and order an AV receiver and two towers and maybe a sub, get all of that in place at least. I gotta have something other than this crappy TV sound. It sucks to buy a nice OLED TV and have no sound for sure.

Oh, and you do think that putting the Atmos speakers in the slanted part of the wall and facing the LP is the way to go versus in the ceiling overhead and pointed down towards the LP? If so what type of speaker would you get for each scenario? And what's this bipole speaker thing the other fellow was mentioning? I'll hunt down his responses, too, were also very detailed and helpful. I assume that makes them turn different directions?

 

[snakeeyes]

I would suggest you get a Denon 4400 while they can be found on sale for $899. The room can be setup for 5.1.4 but the speaker positions are tricky. Usually the couch is not against the wall so you can get the back 2 ceiling speakers a foot or 2 behind your ears. Then the other 2 ceilings are in front of your ears a few feet. The 2 surrounds would be at ear level while seated. Either behind or to each side of your couch. The front speakers also with tweeters at ear level. The center can be above the tv. Anyhow the point is all the speakers are angled directly at your couch for an ideal Atmos layout. That’s not to say you can’t get a great sound, but it would be compromised a bit.

 

[Steelers252006]

I would suggest you get a Denon 4400 while they can be found on sale for $899. The room can be setup for 5.1.4 but the speaker positions are tricky. Usually the couch is not against the wall so you can get the back 2 ceiling speakers a foot or 2 behind your ears. Then the other 2 ceilings are in front of your ears a few feet. The 2 surrounds would be at ear level while seated. Either behind or to each side of your couch. The front speakers also with tweeters at ear level. The center can be above the tv. Anyhow the point is all the speakers are angled directly at your couch for an ideal Atmos layout. That’s not to say you can’t get a great sound, but it would be compromised a bit.

Would you feel comfortable buying the one at Accessories For Less that is refurbished?

Also, thank you for explaining the proper placement of the speakers, makes sense the way you laid that out there.
Heck, almost makes me wonder if I'm better off with a 2.1 setup or a 2.2 setup to start and maybe to finish, too!! If I can't get the sound I want, what's the point, you know? Regardless buying the Denon 4400 is a no-brainer, right, in case I ever want to expand?

I can't lie, I go back and forth on all of this. I'm just ready to buy and get this thing going!! I almost bought a sound bar 3,000 times over the last year, but thank goodness my inner voice said HELL NO!!

I'll mount the center channel OVER the TV so I can just keep the TV the way I have it, one less thing to have to change or fiddle with. That being said is there a specific mount that allows it to angle up and down? Same question should I change my mind and just mount the TV? A specific mount for a 65 inch OLED that angles up or down and out some?

Y'all are LIFESAVERS (not the candy)!!

 

[Steelers252006]

Would you feel comfortable buying the one at Accessories For Less that is refurbished?

Also, thank you for explaining the proper placement of the speakers, makes sense the way you laid that out there.
Heck, almost makes me wonder if I'm better off with a 2.1 setup or a 2.2 setup to start and maybe to finish, too!! If I can't get the sound I want, what's the point, you know? Regardless buying the Denon 4400 is a no-brainer, right, in case I ever want to expand?

I can't lie, I go back and forth on all of this. I'm just ready to buy and get this thing going!! I almost bought a sound bar 3,000 times over the last year, but thank goodness my inner voice said HELL NO!!

I'll mount the center channel OVER the TV so I can just keep the TV the way I have it, one less thing to have to change or fiddle with. That being said is there a specific mount that allows it to angle up and down? Same question should I change my mind and just mount the TV? A specific mount for a 65 inch OLED that angles up or down and out some?

Y'all are LIFESAVERS (not the candy)!!

I mean, what about, if I'm only doing 5.1.2, the Onkyo 585, for example, or the 686? Would the Denon be overkill then for 5.1.2? I'm sitting here looking at this room, and even if I rearranged the whole darn thing and put the TV on a stand on one of the walls, that darn ceiling fan smack dab in the middle is going to mess up at least two channels of the Atmos overheads, right? I wish this room wasn't so funky, man!! Ugg....

 

[snakeeyes]

I mean, what about, if I'm only doing 5.1.2, the Onkyo 585, for example, or the 686? Would the Denon be overkill then for 5.1.2? I'm sitting here looking at this room, and even if I rearranged the whole darn thing and put the TV on a stand on one of the walls, that darn ceiling fan smack dab in the middle is going to mess up at least two channels of the Atmos overheads, right? I wish this room wasn't so funky, man!! Ugg....

Ya I would trust A4L but keep all the packaging in case you have to use the warranty. I’ve bought new speakers there but not refurbished. Nobody here really believes in “Overkill”. LOL

I believe Denon 3400 is around $599.

 

[Steelers252006]

3400 comparable to 4400? Haven’t looked much at it. Or big difference?