Dilemma, amp and old monster power

[Hunter21]

I have an Parasound a 21 and an outlaw model 5000 plugged into a emotiva CMX-2 for DC isolation Because the outlaw guy said and I was getting DC somehow in to my line which caused the torrodial transformers to hum. Then I got that plugged into a monster power center HTS 3500 which is a really old power center. But now I read online that people are saying these power conditioners are not good for amplifiers because they could limit the current. I get the power conditioner part but I'm using that mainly for the surge protection portion for the amplifiers. I do not want to disconnect the amplifiers from that just in case there is a surge, what is a man supposed to do, enjoy high quality but deal with the risk of a surge damaging your equipment, or plug it into the power conditioner/surge protector and lose all the "dynamics" that everybody says you lose when plugging it into a power conditioner

 

[lovinthehd]

Don't know anything about the Monster power center, but there are likely some power conditioners that don't limit the gear (altho I have heard of them limiting power to amps, I've never needed a power conditioner myself). You could just get a normal surge protector outlet/strip and skip the Monster if it is indeed limiting things....not a large investment (and if you do want the larger investment instead look into whole house surge protection).

 

[Hunter21]

Would a surge protector limit also? Or is it just a power conditioning portion the one that limits the current to the amplifiers?

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd suppose that some could but think mostly they're more an extension of the wall outlet with a limited amount of protection (be sure to count those joules adding up ). Where do you live where this is such a big concern? Really bad utility there? Lightning?

 

[Hunter21]

Rochester, New York. The cables for the power lines in my neighborhood are run underground. I just don't want to risk any of the amps and the speakers that are connected to them just incase lightning does strike the transformer box in the neighborhood or the lines right before the street begins,which are the pole type, but I also don't want to limit the performance of the system, Kind of like buying a high performance car and just putting regular gas in.

 

[one more time]

Sounds like you have to make a choice between protecting your amp from drawing too much current on a peak or, a) a power surge from the power company, or b) a lightening strike.

How is your surge protector supposed to tell the difference?

You pays yer money and you makes yer choice.

 

[lovinthehd]

Rochester, New York. The cables for the power lines in my neighborhood are run underground. I just don't want to risk any of the amps and the speakers that are connected to them just incase lightning does strike the transformer box in the neighborhood or the lines right before the street begins,which are the pole type, but I also don't want to limit the performance of the system, Kind of like buying a high performance car and just putting regular gas in.

So these surges/spikes happen all the time or something? Is lightning that big a risk? Not sure the gas thing makes any sense, if the engine is supposed to run on regular, you run it on regular

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think you are worried for nothing.

Just keep in mind you are most likely not using 100% of your amp power anyway. Most of the time, you’re probably using less than 50 wattts.

And depending on the power handling of your tweeters, if you did use 100% of your amp power, your tweeters would probably be fried.

So don’t lose any more sleep over this.

 

[Hunter21]

I know I went 10 years plugging things through the power center but I went to this one place that made some acoustic panels for me and they were playing war low rider and it's the 1st time I've actually heard trumpets being played in that song and I tried playing the same thing at home and I cannot hear the trumpets in the great detail that I did there at home. I just wanted to make sure that being plugged into the power center wasnt limiting the amp from outputting all that mid range to the front speakers, which are paradigm persona 3f. And I do relatively sit close to a front speakers which are probably 7 to 8' away and have bass traps right behind them and the one block bass trap inbetween them and it just does not sound like it should. I don't even know if I put them in the right place cause I have other traps around the room. It probly also doesn't help that I have a fridge right directly in the back wall were the right speaker is which is probably causing a imaging issue but I don't know how to put a trap on the fridge lol. That I know I have to deal with till I move and actually plan out where to put a Hi fi system. I would also state that the parasound does also make the front speaker seem a little bit more bass heavy and the treble doesnt seem as bright then it did plugging it into the outlaw amp. Which have been level matched using the YPAO and are plugged in to the same power center.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

Did the Emotiva CMX-2 help to eliminate the transformer hum?

 

[Hunter21]

Yes now it's a consistent hum, like a normal transformer hum vs before it would be normal then it would just get annoyingly loud and vibrate the cabinet it was on top of

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

Yes now it's a consistent hum, like a normal transformer hum vs before it would be normal then it would just get annoyingly loud and vibrate the cabinet it was on top of

Interesting. Thanks. I was under the impression that the manufacturer claimed complete elimination of hum.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yes now it's a consistent hum, like a normal transformer hum vs before it would be normal then it would just get annoyingly loud and vibrate the cabinet it was on top of

Physical hum like that I don't think is all that normal, sounds like a defective unit to me. Electrical/ground loop hum is different....

 

[Hunter21]

Could it be from the current limiting from the power center maybe, I'll try to plug it straight into the wall with the emotiva cmx-2 still being used but just not the power conditioner, I don't know if I hear the hum from the parasound but I know I hear it from outlaw because I noticed it on that before I even got the parasound. I know I probably can't do it tonight because we are supposed to have 65mph winds so I definitely want the surge protection tonight.

 

[PENG]

Could it be from the current limiting from the power center maybe, I'll try to plug it straight into the wall with the emotiva cmx-2 still being used but just not the power conditioner, I don't know if I hear the hum from the parasound but I know I hear it from outlaw because I noticed it on that before I even got the parasound. I know I probably can't do it tonight because we are supposed to have 65mph winds so I definitely want the surge protection tonight.

You have a power center that appears to be well designed, with different filters for different applications, so as long as you plug the high current devices to the appropriate outlets you should have to worry about current limiting. There is simply no reason for the designer to do anything that would limit normal load current including the highest peak current that your amplifiers would ever draw under any normal operating conditions, there is just no need for it.

The A21 has a good size toroidal transformer that will always hum, some people may claim theirs don't hum, but they do if you are within a few inches from it. It is a physical thing.. Some people are probably less sensitive to those frequencies or their room has a high enough noise floor so they don't hear it. If you have noises introduced by certain devices such as humidifiers, or devices that uses variable speed ac drives, it may cause the transformer to hum much louder (the power center should fix that if it is worth the money), but it will hum quietly even if the 120 V line is completely noise free.

 

[Hunter21]

Yea that's what the cmx-2 help fixed when someone would use like a curling iron or the bedside heater was on the outlaw would hum and you could hear it 6 feet away. Now it has reduced it to 4 inches to be audible

 

[PENG]

Yea that's what the cmx-2 help fixed when someone would use like a curling iron or the bedside heater was on the outlaw would hum and you could hear it 6 feet away. Now it has reduced it to 4 inches to be audible

I can hear my A21 hum in the next room 10 ft away when the table humidifier is on low setting, no issue with it on high setting. It doesn't affect the other amps or avrs that may or may not be excited by other things.

 

[Hunter21]

Yea my a21 doesn't hum almost at all, does heat up quick though, but the outlaw still hums but consistent even when it is off

 

[PENG]

Yea my a21 doesn't hum almost at all, does heat up quick though, but the outlaw still hums but consistent even when it is off

I believe this does not always indicate one amp is better, or more immune, than the other. It is likely that they are just sensitive, triggered by and/or resonate with different noise/harmonic frequencies in the power supply line.

 

[highfigh]

I have an Parasound a 21 and an outlaw model 5000 plugged into a emotiva CMX-2 for DC isolation Because the outlaw guy said and I was getting DC somehow in to my line which caused the torrodial transformers to hum. Then I got that plugged into a monster power center HTS 3500 which is a really old power center. But now I read online that people are saying these power conditioners are not good for amplifiers because they could limit the current. I get the power conditioner part but I'm using that mainly for the surge protection portion for the amplifiers. I do not want to disconnect the amplifiers from that just in case there is a surge, what is a man supposed to do, enjoy high quality but deal with the risk of a surge damaging your equipment, or plug it into the power conditioner/surge protector and lose all the "dynamics" that everybody says you lose when plugging it into a power conditioner

Would a surge protector limit also? Or is it just a power conditioning portion the one that limits the current to the amplifiers?

Limiting occurs when the protection is in series with the devices' power supplies- surge protection is parallel and creates a short path to ground in the event that the varistors (or whatever) are needed and they're self-sacrificial.

Power amps generally don't need protection- it's the more delicate circuits and components that need it. If lightning strikes nearby, all bets are off- the voltage, current and overall energy are too much to suppress- the most effective protection uses diversion.