RSL Black Friday Deals!

[speakerman39]

Dan given that your room is so large, I would think that a couple of these, along with your PB 4000's, would give you more of what you want w/these 24" subs:


https://www.deepseasound.com/products/mariana-24sc-24-subwoofer


https://www.deepseasound.com/products/mariana-24sr-24-subwoofer


Not sure of your budget b/c either of these linked start at $4,000 each. Keep in mind that they weigh in at over 200 lbs. each. Certainly something to consider. Having (2) of the 24" subs would be fun fun fun!


Cheers,

Phil

 

[Steve81]

Funk Audio FTW!
https://www.funkaudio.ca/store/c3/Subwoofers.html

Not cheap, but great finish options and I figure if @Steve81 chose Funk (21.0, I think), it is probably a very good product!

I went with the 21.0LX, which is backed by the 18.0 I already had. At the time, I was effectively trying to decide between the Seaton F18s and JTR S2. I was leaning towards the F18s (modular design, easy upgrade path), but I pinged Nathan to see what he could offer for my circumstances. The 21.0LX was essentially everything I was looking for (this DIY job at DB was my "ideal" for various reasons), and since it was a brand new product, I was a returning customer, etc., Nathan made me an offer I couldn't refuse

 

[speakerman39]

Dan here is a review by Shady that you may find interesting:

https://www.audioholics.com/recommended-systems/rise-of-the-super-subwoofers-a-comparison-guide


Cheers,

Phil

 

[shadyJ]

Dan here is a review by Shady that you may find interesting:

https://www.audioholics.com/recommended-systems/rise-of-the-super-subwoofers-a-comparison-guide


Cheers,

Phil

That isn't a review, that is just some information about it, and how it might compare to other subs given its specs. I did actually spend a bunch of time with a Mariana 24 when it was first introduced. It was at an Axpona show that I attended a few years ago where it was launched, and it took me completely by surprise. I spend some time there with Dave Gage who runs Deep Sea Sound and Nick Lemon who is the guy behind Stereo Integrity. I must have spend at least 1/3 of the show in their exhibit because it was kicking so much ass. I can vouch for it, it is a killer product, and there have been upgrades to the driver since that version too. One funny thing we did was blast some low frequency tones with our heads right next to the driver. That is a strange sensation, something everyone should have on their bucket list before they die (although that might actually be enough to kill some people). Nick Lemon was using low tones to identify and brace vibrating things in room, but all of the deep bass pressure made him nauseous after awhile- after all, these were two very high excursion 24"s each with a 4kW amp all stuffed into small-to-medium sized hotel room. Insanity! Needless to say, their room incurred many complaints from nearby exhibitors. Dr. Hsu and his wife, and Kevin Woo, and Mark Seaton came by to hang out for a little while too. Good times! Anyway, here is a short review of the Mariana 24: it is totally awesome. Buy it.

 

[speakerman39]

That isn't a review, that is just some information about it, and how it might compare to other subs given its specs. I did actually spend a bunch of time with a Mariana 24 when it was first introduced. It was at an Axpona show that I attended a few years ago where it was launched, and it took me completely by surprise. I spend some time there with Dave Gage who runs Deep Sea Sound and Nick Lemon who is the guy behind Stereo Integrity. I must have spend at least 1/3 of the show in their exhibit because it was kicking so much ass. I can vouch for it, it is a killer product, and there have been upgrades to the driver since that version too. One funny thing we did was blast some low frequency tones with our heads right next to the driver. That is a strange sensation, something everyone should have on their bucket list before they die (although that might actually be enough to kill some people). Nick Lemon was using low tones to identify and brace vibrating things in room, but all of the deep bass pressure made him nauseous after awhile- after all, these were two very high excursion 24"s each with a 4kW amp all stuffed into small-to-medium sized hotel room. Insanity! Needless to say, their room incurred many complaints from nearby exhibitors. Dr. Hsu and his wife, and Kevin Woo, and Mark Seaton came by to hang out for a little while too. Good times! Anyway, here is a short review of the Mariana 24: it is totally awesome. Buy it.

Thanks for the info. But, I am not buying it. Although, I sure dream of doing so. Dan asked me what I recommended a few posts back. He has dual PB 4000's as it is in the near-field. But, his room is like 8,500 ft.^3. I first recommended adding dual 18" vented subs. But, then I came across this as well. What would you recommend in that size of room with Dan already having dual PB 4000's near-field? Perhaps, a single 24" Deep sea Sound sub would do it? It sounds like Dan wants his room to literally rock. That is a big room to fill with bass.


Cheers,

Phil

 

[shadyJ]

Thanks for the info. But, I am not buying it. Although, I sure dream of doing so. Dan asked me what I recommended a few posts back. He has dual PB 4000's as it is in the near-field. But, his room is like 8,500 ft.^3. I first recommended adding dual 18" vented subs. But, then I came across this as well. What would you recommend in that size of room with Dan already having dual PB 4000's near-field? Perhaps, a single 24" Deep sea Sound sub would do it? It sounds like Dan wants his room to literally rock. That is a big room to fill with bass.


Cheers,

Phil

I like the SVS 4000 subs but the Mariana 24s are very much in another league. But of course they are, being twice as expensive. I have listened to the PB-4000s and Mariana 24s both in the near-field. The PB-4000s will punch you for sure, but the Mariana 24s will shake the very core of your being. However, the Mariana 24s will need a nice uncluttered power circuit, and they are also a bear to handle since they are over 200 lbs each.

Dual PB-4000s in near-field use will give you nicely even bass throughout more listening position. Everyone gets some nice kick. One near-field Mariana 24 will give you an unholy experience at a single position, and decent bass everywhere else.

The thing is, when using subs in the near-field, it doesn't matter nearly as much how large the room is. You are still experiencing much of the subwoofer's acoustic energy either way. So it doesn't matter that his room is 8.5k cubic feet. He is getting slammed with bass regardless.

 

[Irvrobinson]

My room is about the same size as Dan's, and one 18" sealed sub easily pressurizes the space at 20Hz without audible harmonic distortion. I think sometimes we go overboard on views of real-world deep bass requirements.

 

[speakerman39]

I like the SVS 4000 subs but the Mariana 24s are very much in another league. But of course they are, being twice as expensive. I have listened to the PB-4000s and Mariana 24s both in the near-field. The PB-4000s will punch you for sure, but the Mariana 24s will shake the very core of your being. However, the Mariana 24s will need a nice uncluttered power circuit, and they are also a bear to handle since they are over 200 lbs each.

Dual PB-4000s in near-field use will give you nicely even bass throughout more listening position. Everyone gets some nice kick. One near-field Mariana 24 will give you an unholy experience at a single position, and decent bass everywhere else.

The thing is, when using subs in the near-field, it doesn't matter nearly as much how large the room is. You are still experiencing much of the subwoofer's acoustic energy either way. So it doesn't matter that his room is 8.5k cubic feet. He is getting slammed with bass regardless.

Okay interesting point. But, evidently Dan wants more low end in the near-field. Just add another PB 4000 or add (2) of them? I mean even (3) PB 4000's in the near-field would have to be awesome. Adding (2) more will smooth things out even more and increase headroom. Just curious as to what direction you would go.


Cheers,

Phil

 

[speakerman39]

My room is about the same size as Dan's, and one 18" sealed sub easily pressurizes the space at 20Hz without audible harmonic distortion. I think sometimes we go overboard on views of real-world deep bass requirements.

Good point Irv. But, some people want to go lower than 20 Hz. Like into the teens or less. I am not one of them. But, there are some people that are after such performance. Dan is just after more punch from what I have garnered. Perhaps, adding another PB 4000 placed near-field will do the trick, no?


Cheers,

Phil

 

[shadyJ]

Okay interesting point. But, evidently Dan wants more low end in the near-field. Just add another PB 4000 or add (2) of them? I mean even (3) PB 4000's in the near-field would have to be awesome. Adding (2) more will smooth things out even more and increase headroom. Just curious as to what direction you would go.


Cheers,

Phil

I would go where ever the measurements take me. It's hard for me to imagine anyone needing more low-end than a PB-4000 can give in the near-field, but adding more will, of course, increase headroom across the board. Something else to consider is power draw. Two PB-4000s will already max out a 15 amp circuit if you push them hard enough. It's time to start thinking of electrical demands when you pile so many powerful subs together.

 

[speakerman39]

I would go where ever the measurements take me. It's hard for me to imagine anyone needing more low-end than a PB-4000 can give in the near-field, but adding more will, of course, increase headroom across the board. Something else to consider is power draw. Two PB-4000s will already max out a 15 amp circuit if you push them hard enough. It's time to start thinking of electrical demands when you pile so many powerful subs together.

That's true. No voltage no power. Either way, it is an expensive undertaking. Just wonder if a mid-bass driver like Dr. Hsu used to recommend might help give Dan a bit more punch and impact, no?


Cheers,

Phil

 

[shadyJ]

That's true. No voltage no power. Either way, it is an expensive undertaking. Just wonder if a mid-bass driver like Dr. Hsu used to recommend might help give Dan a bit more punch and impact, no?


Cheers,

Phil

The thing about deep bass is that it isn't very tactile unless you get into huge SPLs. A subwoofer with more emphasis on mid bass will certainly give you more punch, but my question is how are two near-field PB-4000s not already satisfying high SPL cravings already? A near-field PB-4000 should be able to hit at least 120 dB at the listening position!

 

[speakerman39]

The thing about deep bass is that it isn't very tactile unless you get into huge SPLs. A subwoofer with more emphasis on mid bass will certainly give you more punch, but my question is how are two near-field PB-4000s not already satisfying high SPL cravings already? A near-field PB-4000 should be able to hit at least 120 dB at the listening position!

Dan was asking me for a recommendation. Evidently he wants more punch. I think that a mid-bass bass module would give him what he wants. But, Hsu does not sell them anymore. Not sure where Dan could get one unless he finds one used. Maybe even adding some bass-shakers would help. Hopefully, Dan will chime in soon enough.


Cheers,

Phil

 

[shadyJ]

Dan was asking me for a recommendation. Evidently he wants more punch. I think that a mid-bass bass module would give him what he wants. But, Hsu does not sell them anymore. Not sure where Dan could get one unless he finds one used. Maybe even adding some bass-shakers would help. Hopefully, Dan will chime in soon enough.


Cheers,

Phil

Hsu doesn't offer the MBM anymore because any of their 15"s do everything that MBM did but better.

 

[Danzilla31]

Hsu doesn't offer the MBM anymore because any of their 15"s do everything that MBM did but better.

Hey guys I am so so sorry I have missed this thread! I should've touched back in and given you guys a heads up on what it was like to move those subs near field. I have to give a friend a ride home and walk the dog after that I will jump back on here and tell you my experience. And feedback and insights would be welcome holler at you soon!

 

[Danzilla31]

Hey guys I am so so sorry I have missed this thread! I should've touched back in and given you guys a heads up on what it was like to move those subs near field. I have to give a friend a ride home and walk the dog after that I will jump back on here and tell you my experience. And feedback and insights would be welcome holler at you soon!

Okay so first off I need to apologize on a miscommunication. I wasn't wanting sealed subs for increased extension spls or mid bass punch. I've begun to find as I hear more and more people's gear that I like there sound. At least the higher end ones. But I wasn't sure if they would be logical in my room. I don't think they would be not financially anyway. And that monster sub Shady I've researched it before that beauty is a true super sub! I don't even think I could get it in here tho. It was more a curiosity could sealed work? They can but since I already have these and I love them well it just wouldn't be worth the extra cost factor

So I went and moved the dual PB 4000's Near field. Ran Audyssey which in my room just seems to get things right especially with the subs. And they measure even better behind the couches then they do on the wall.

Sooooo first off dynamics and spl and extension. Shady hit that one on the head I'm smacking pretty much 120 db straight across the board and these things aren't even TRYING. they're running less hot and doing more effortlessly. And I'm LOOOVING IT

Second my issues with room gain are just gone from this position. No more cricket sound from the chimney no more annoying thick muddy localized bass at ceartin frequencies on the right side. It just sounds gorgeous with no distortion just pure accurate straight to the point bass

Lastly in these spots they sound so good although I get amazing tactile feel like all over my body. I can't localize the bass. It sounds like it's coming from one spot. And that's right where I'm sitting even with 2 subs being back there. It sounds like I have subs playing in the front as well as the back I couldn't ask for better immersion.

In conclusion it sounds so good so dynamic and powerful that I'm not even sure I want quad subs anymore. I mean I'll get them if it's ideal if it improves the response and spreading of the bass. But I'll take some feedback from you guys on that because I'm very very happy with my 2 where they are at now.

Plus I'm worried about putting 2 more back on that front wall. It would be the PC 4000's if and when I do it. But I'm thinking subs that strong were just overloading that wall. They measured well there but when I cranked them I think a big part of the issue is behind that wall is the master closet and guest bathroom. I think they were just overexciting frequencies back there that were causing my issues. That space is probably just a HUGE resonator any insights from you on this more then welcome. However the PC 4000 with there much smaller footprint would be easier to place farther off that wall but we'll see.

I'm putting 3 SVS ultra towers up there anyway next year so really I'm not even sure if I'll need 2 more subs up front with those 3 babies helping out. @speakerman39 thanks for helping me out And the same to all you guys! Love to hear your thoughts! Cheers

 

[speakerman39]

Its all good Dan. Glad that you got things more dialed into your liking. That always takes time and effort. Your room is so large placing near-field is the best way to go about it. Sounds like you have some awesome plans putting (3) Ultra towers up front. That would have to be very sweet. Make sure you post some pics! We all love speaker porn.......LOL!!!!


Cheers,

Phil

 

[Danzilla31]

Shut I've been rocking movies all night. And I stumbled onto something that I figure is going to a little controversial. I decided to turn off Audyssey. And there was a huge improvement in the sound period. I stayed up extra just switching back and forth to make sure. The Denon X4400H let's me do that instantly I was just ABing back and forth for like 2 hours. And the improvement is there. Better highs midrange and an improved bass response.

I'm beginning to understand why so many guys don't like it and the issue of all the filters and how this actually can have a negative impact on the sound at times

What I still like it for is level matching the subs getting speaker distance and levels good it seems to nail those parts. But after this is done from now on I'm shutting it off completely and just tweaking out any issues I might notice manually.

 

[speakerman39]

Shut I've been rocking movies all night. And I stumbled onto something that I figure is going to a little controversial. I decided to turn off Audyssey. And there was a huge improvement in the sound period. I stayed up extra just switching back and forth to make sure. The Denon X4400H let's me do that instantly I was just ABing back and forth for like 2 hours. And the improvement is there. Better highs midrange and an improved bass response.

I'm beginning to understand why so many guys don't like it and the issue of all the filters and how this actually can have a negative impact on the sound at times

What I still like it for is level matching the subs getting speaker distance and levels good it seems to nail those parts. But after this is done from now on I'm shutting it off completely and just tweaking out any issues I might notice manually.

Dan, obviously in some rooms Audyssey does not seem to improve things very much. Sounds like that applies to you. However, I can honestly say that Audyssey has always made a tremendous difference for me. Sure, I had to tweak things a bit and get my subs dialed in better. But, Audyssey is nothing else serves as an excellent starting point. Keep in mind, that I reside in a small apartment w/a highly reflective room coming in at 1,440 ft.^3. My MLP was only 8' from my front-stage. Furthermore, I only listen at moderate levels. Glad you are getting more to your liking. Congrats!


Cheers,

Phil

 

[snakeeyes]

Dan, obviously in some rooms Audyssey does not seem to improve things very much. Sounds like that applies to you. However, I can honestly say that Audyssey has always made a tremendous difference for me. Sure, I had to tweak things a bit and get my subs dialed in better. But, Audyssey is nothing else serves as an excellent starting point. Keep in mind, that I reside in a small apartment w/a highly reflective room coming in at 1,440 ft.^3. My MLP was only 8' from my front-stage. Furthermore, I only listen at moderate levels. Glad you are getting more to your liking. Congrats!


Cheers,

Phil

Ya at this point he can relax and enjoy the tunes.