Salk, Philharmonic, Ascend.... what else?

[Swerd]

I have not but judging from the specs, the cabinet, and the size of that woofer. I can only imagine.

The Phil 3 and the Salk SS8 speakers are tied for my choice as personal all-time favorites. They share a lot of design principles, especially the open-back mid-range driver that lets you vary the stuffing behind it. With little or no stuffing, you get more mid range sound out of the back to reflect off the wall behind the speaker. It gives the illusion of greater depth to the sound stage. With more stuffing or completely closed, you get mainly sound coming from the front of the mid driver. Owner's can vary that to their preference. And it allows a wider range of floor placement, either close or distant from the wall behind the speaker.

The SS8 has two 8" woofers and the cabinet is tuned with passive radiators, which work similar to ports, large diameter shallow ports. The Phil3 has one 8" woofer that works well in a transmission line cabinet. Both can really go down to 25 Hz, but I think the SS8 may be a bit more sensitive. (I know someone will ask me to describe what transmission line bass sounds like. It's difficult to put in words, but IMHO definitely worth having.)

Both speakers have similar RAAL ribbon tweeters. The SS8 has the more expensive Accuton ceramic mid driver, and the Phil3 has the BG planar mid range. Both are clean sounding and accurate.

The big difference is in the cabinet work, and price. I like to think of the Phil3 as the "poor man's SS8". When Dennis came up with the BMR because people wanted to buy less expensive stand mount speakers, it easily outsold the Phil3. You give up little other than the deep bass and the open back mid range.

And the Lady just affirmed that she will not try to hijack the rig and have me move it to the greatroom.

Get it in writing. She's changed her mind before, and may do it again .

 

[2channel lover]

MA

Hi 2channel. Thanks for your input!
I was in different places and thus not able to direct compare most of these. I suspect the ML Motion 40s suffered a little bit of the same fate as the B&Ws did, which was poor amplification. The Motion 40, was better than the B&W, but I suspect that shouldn't be the case. I was given the opportunity to hear the same B&Ws elswhere, but the model was above my budget for towers anyway. I will listen at some point when I know I can get a good demo.
The Motion 60XTs were properly set up and I fully enjoyed the experience. As best I can compare from day two with the Silver 300s and 500s, I could buy either MA's and be happy, I think. Compared back to the 60XT, the 300s for a grand less sounded delightful. Bass was full and had very good pacing, and the high end wasn't sharp or dominating in any way. The mids to my hi-fi-noob ears were solid and nothing stood out to me as a nuisance or distraction. The 500s did everything a little bit better. They do carry a Gold and Plat model, too, and if I go back for a second round, I will ask to compare just so I can hear the difference.

I'm intrigued by the Revel lineup, but the Concerta2 is more at my budget... I can say only so often, "what's another $500? Well, I did that for the Silver 500s, and then again for the 60XTs. Ha! There's only 1 other speaker I might spend over 3k for the pair, and until I hear them in a couple weeks, they're just a fantasy.

There is a place I might get to hear the Golden Ears at, though I'm not certain which models they might carry. Many people have brought them up, saying good things.

Which comes back to Salk. I get it. But I'll need to grow into it, I think. If I have a good year, maybe in 18mos. I could see them and some BMRs and Mini-Phils all arranged around me.

Best,
R

Good to hear.

By all means, you do have to hold the line on the budget at some point so I can respect that.

M/A 500s...they sound like a solid choice to be honest.

The Salks replaced a long standing pair of 800 series B&Ws that I played 2.0 for 20 yrs....But now that I'm running 2.1 for the 1st time, the F206 would actually have been okay but that would be adding "another $500"...lol.

Subs for music have come a long way since my old Paradigm boom monster, if it's just bass that's separating the MA300 and 500...I might go back and listen to the 300 2.1 and see how you like it.

 

[ryanosaur]

Get it in writing. She's changed her mind before, and may do it again .

rotflmfao!
Too true. But usually when I get a direct comment like that, she'll hold her integrity. Usually.
The only problem is that now she's like... "Well maybe we can upgrade the HTIB with something a little nicer." *Facepalm
Isn't that what I was offering?
But to be fair, we have divergent musical tastes most of the time, and my tunes are almost guaranteed to unhitch her!
And another HTIB? Ack. We'll see. Maybe I can get her to spring for an outlaw 975 and some ascend cmts.

 

[snakeeyes]

The Phil 3 and the Salk SS8 speakers are tied for my choice as all-time favorites. They share a lot of design principles, especially the open-back mid-range driver that lets you vary the stuffing behind it. With little or no stuffing, you get more mid range sound out of the back to reflect off the wall behind the speaker. It gives the illusion of greater depth to the sound stage. With more stuffing or completely closed, you get mainly sound coming from the front of the mid driver. Owner's can vary that to their preference. And it allows a wider range of floor placement, either close or distant from the wall behind the speaker.

The SS8 has two 8" woofers and the cabinet is tuned with passive radiators, which work similar to ports, large diameter shallow ports. The Phil3 has one 8" woofer that works well in a transmission line cabinet. Both can really go down to 25 Hz, but I think the SS8 may be a bit more sensitive. (I know someone will ask me to describe what transmission line bass sounds like. It's difficult to put in words, but IMHO definitely worth having.)

Both speakers have similar RAAL ribbon tweeters. The SS8 has the more expensive Accouton ceramic mid driver, and the Phil3 has the BG planar mid range. Both are clean sounding and accurate.

The big difference is in the cabinet work, and price. I like to think of the Phil3 as the "poor man's SS8". When Dennis came up with the BMR because people wanted to buy less expensive stand mount speakers, it easily outsold the Phil3. You give up little other than the deep bass and the open back mid range.
Get it in writing. She's changed her mind before, and may do it again .

Ya my GF unplugged one of my subs the other day. Gotta stay on top of things.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Hummm. I think I'm gonna email him about that. Very happy with RAAL ribbon tweeter. Don't know much about the Fountek NeoCd3 that used on the MTM but I'm sure Dennis choose that tweeter for a reason.

When I designed the MTM, the BMR wasn't on the horizon. I went with the Fountek for the MTM because a RAAL wouldn't go low enough to mate well with the Seas woofers. Now that I have the BMR and have experimented with it as a center, I think it's superior to the MTM in horizontal dispersion and obviously matches the LR tonality perfectly.

 

[APORTO]

I purchased LCR BMR's for my 20X20X8 room a month ago and couldn't be happier/more impressed. I relied on other's reviews on this forum and went with Philharmonic. Dennis recommended the sideways BMR for the center and it sounds great. I am also have 4 sealed mini-s for ceiling/height on order. I don't have much to compare with the BMR's except for Fluance Floor speakers. I can no longer listen to the Fluance.

 

[Beave]

Three BMRs would make for a great setup! Nice going.

One suggestion: That glass table in front of the couch seems to be right in the direct path from the center channel to the couch (listening position). Can you consider relocating it, or just pushing it to the side when listening to music or watching movies?

 

[APORTO]

Three BMRs would make for a great setup! Nice going.

One suggestion: That glass table in front of the couch seems to be right in the direct path from the center channel to the couch (listening position). Can you consider relocating it, or just pushing it to the side when listening to music or watching movies?

Hi Beave, the table is causing interference, but wife needs a place for her wine glass ;-) I will work on replacing with a smaller table, but it must be handled delicately.
Ryan, please let us know what you decide and how it works out. Good luck!

 

[bboro30]

I purchased LCR BMR's for my 20X20X8 room a month ago and couldn't be happier/more impressed. I relied on other's reviews on this forum and went with Philharmonic. Dennis recommended the sideways BMR for the center and it sounds great. I am also have 4 sealed mini-s for ceiling/height on order. I don't have much to compare with the BMR's except for Fluance Floor speakers. I can no longer listen to the Fluance.
View attachment 26596

My dream LCR.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

That's what I did. Used the for as the L/R for everything for one month. I was blown away by the fact that i had a floor standing speaker almost 3x the size of the BMR; and the BMR still produced more bass. Wild.

@Swerd read your review of the BMR. IMO, I think wish the BMR had a little bit more "punch" on the bass but that why you gotta go with the Phil 3's. Unfortunately, space doesn't permit for me.

Was actually think about selling on the L/R/C Klipsch's. The treble on this things is just off the waazoooo. The Klipsch tractrix tweeter just seals the show hands down. Depending on how much I can get was thinking getting pair of Focal Aria 948's and leaving the BRM's in my bedroom. Or just get the MTM center channel from Dennis and go Philharmonic for everything. + t it will be fairly easy to move when the time comes to get a new place.

Which Klipsch do you have? The US-made ones tend to sell pretty easily while the plasticy Chinese speakers tend to wind up as Craigslist fodder. Check the Klipsch forum to find out what they're worth.

 

[KEW]

IMHO, nothing can compete with Philharmonic Audio for value in an accurate & neutral (ie: high sound quality) speaker.
SALK adds an exquisite finish to high end variants of Murphy's designs.
Some people claim Salk build quality as a consideration, however, in these days of mass production cnc cut mdf and with modern adhesives, build quality really is no longer a concern. It is really about the finish.
Jim Salk does excellent work and I think he made some very good decisions to use high quality speakers as a medium for allowing him to support his family as a high quality woodworker and to tap Dennis for the design work (esp. crossovers).
Anyone buying a $10,000 pair of speakers is likely very happy to have the option of spending one or two more thousand for a custom finish involving many hours of craftsmanship!
Personally, if you are using a subwoofer, I think the BMR is the best value out there!
I think they are clearly better than the (very good) Salk Song towers - the RALL tweeter is a clear step up in SQ, and their amazing off-axis response is very nice to my ear.

 

[everettT]

My salks are ready to ship and while the wait is long, I'm happy I made the decision. 6 months is hard but the end result is worth it.

 

[snakeeyes]

By the way, I’m a big Method Man fan too. Nice choice for a demo. What other artists are you playing when you demo?

 

[everettT]

By the way, I’m a big Method Man fan too. Nice choice for a demo. What other artists are you playing when you demo?

I know it's hard when doing demos not to play what your into, but the best advice Ican give is keep demos simple 1 to 3 instruments, and female vocals. If possible unamplified instruments just Mic'd. This method makes comparison easier as our auditory memory is only seconds... just a thought

 

[snakeeyes]

I know it's hard when doing demos not to play what your into, but the best I can give is keep demos simple 1 to 3 instruments, and female vocals. If possible unamplified instruments just Mic'd. This method makes comparison easier as our auditory memory is only seconds... just a thought

Just thinking he has to redo a lot of his demos if he is now looking at bookshelves instead of towers.

 

[everettT]

Just thinking he has to redo a lot of his demos if he is now looking at bookshelves instead of towers.

Sorta i guess. Midrange is so important that it's the first thing I look at. Extension can be made up via subs (which below 200hz is a whole other issue). The power band from 200hz to 2500khz contains so much information that it is critical. You need midrange and some tweeters that can handle being pushed. I was concerned about the midrange in the Song 3Es, but was assured that they could put out reference levels without distortion in my room.

Accuracy is the most important thing to me as all my critical listening is from well made recordings whether from me or produced; the old saying garbage in garbage out.

 

[ryanosaur]

By the way, I’m a big Method Man fan too. Nice choice for a demo. What other artists are you playing when you demo?

Looked at a lot of demo recommendations, and for my first round, I'm listening to stuff I know well and have listened to for a long time. In no particular order:
Stravinsky, Rite of Spring; Method Man, Biscuits; Gorillaz, 19/2000[jungle fresh]; Blackalicious, Purest Love; Sly and the Family Stone, If You Want Me To Stay; Lou Reed, Walk on the Wild Side, Egg Cream; Dexter Gordon, Tanya; Joe Lovano, Evolution; Stanton Moore, Blues for Ben; Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, Love Letter, Oh my Lord, Fionna Apple, Paper Bag.

The Hip Hop and Gorillaz cuts don't push the bass as dynamically as the 2nd track from right of spring, but the intensity behind the production on those has revealed a little shortcoming here and there. Nothing a sub wouldn't fix, but I caught a hint of clipping in the Martin Logan 60XT on the Gorillaz cut. Sly Stone has a good mix of instrumentation, Larry Graham's Bass is beautiful, electric piano and b-3... We all know walk on the wild side, I like egg cream because the tone and timbre of his distorted guitar are so refined and lush laid over that bass line. The Gordon and Lovano cuts are pretty straight forward, the Stanton Moore cut is Tuba as bass with a good mix of thick instrumentation. Nick Cave Is all about male vocal and Piano, with oh my lord bringing in the full band. Fionna is female vocal.

I've been doing my basic intro with Stravinsky, Dexter Gordon, Sly, Lou Reed, Nick Cave and Fionna as my most critical listening, and then I hit Meth and Gorillaz to see how the low end holds together. If i'm really intrigued I play a few others. I worked out the Silvers pretty hard, they were a lot of fun to listen too.

 

[ryanosaur]

I'm going to get to hear the Phil 3's in a week, I think!!! Very excited.

 

[ryanosaur]

My salks are ready to ship and while the wait is long, I'm happy I made the decision. 6 months is hard but the end result is worth it.
View attachment 26636

Gotta know please, which model? Thx!

 

[everettT]

Gotta know please, which model? Thx!

http://www.salksound.com/model.php?model=Song3+Encore

Song 3e in this finish

http://www.salksound.com/gallery/Song3/s3-grayburst-cu.jpg