Salk, Philharmonic, Ascend.... what else?

[Swerd]

Almost overlooked this... Pls tell me about your Tekton experience. Which speakers, your thoughts, etc. Thank you!

A few years ago, I heard Tekton towers, I believe they were Pendragons. They had two large 10" woofers and several 1" dome tweeters in the middle. I thought they were terrible, especially for the price. There was little off-axis mid range sound, and as a result, their imaging was poor – it collapsed in the all important mid range. Surprisingly, they didn't sound as bass heavy as I thought they might, but there was still a big hole in their mid range sound. There are a lot of good sounding competition in this price range.

I heard them at someone's house, not an audio show in small hotel rooms. Keeping to standard good form, at the time I didn't say anything bad about another man's speakers. Till now.

 

[ryanosaur]

I heard a pair of BMRs in that room and they had no trouble at all in achieving volumes higher than I wanted to hear.

I know this is a dicey question most of the time... and I did't get a clear answer from Dennis. What is the power handling like for the BMR's? How much juice do they need vs how much do they want. (Not looking at the Rabbit hole question of RMS power, but the B&Ws I spoke of earlier clearly were underpowered compared to everything else in the room.)

If I used an Amp capable of 275W RMS into 8Ohms/ ~450 into 4Ohms... too much?

 

[Swerd]

I know this is a dicey question most of the time... and I did't get a clear answer from Dennis. What is the power handling like for the BMR's? How much juice do they need vs how much do they want. (Not looking at the Rabbit hole question of RMS power, but the B&Ws I spoke of earlier clearly were underpowered compared to everything else in the room.)

If I used an Amp capable of 275W RMS into 8Ohms/ ~450 into 4Ohms... too much?

I wrote my impressions of the BMR speakers here. I compared them to my Salk Veracity ST tower speakers in my home. You can see them behind the BMRs in the photos.

The amplifier I have is an older B&K EX4420 2 channel amp, rated at 200 wpc at 8 ohms. It was more than plenty for the BMRs. The BMR speakers have a sensitivity of 85 dB, and the Veracity STs are rated at 88 dB. Both speakers are Dennis's designs and the ratings are his conservative estimates. I believe the BMRs should handle your 275 wpc amp without problem. They probably won't need that much power, but they could handle it.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I know this is a dicey question most of the time... and I did't get a clear answer from Dennis. What is the power handling like for the BMR's? How much juice do they need vs how much do they want. (Not looking at the Rabbit hole question of RMS power, but the B&Ws I spoke of earlier clearly were underpowered compared to everything else in the room.)

If I used an Amp capable of 275W RMS into 8Ohms/ ~450 into 4Ohms... too much?

There are too many variables to give a simple pat answer. I'm running a 200 wpc ATI amp which is a brute and probably puts out more than that if called upon. I doubt very much that you would need as much power as you have on tap unless you're planning on creating a decibel nightmare in your listening room. Clipping output from underpowered amps is probably more of a risk than lots of clean ;power.

 

[ryanosaur]

There are too many variables to give a simple pat answer. I'm running a 200 wpc ATI amp which is a brute and probably puts out more than that if called upon. I doubt very much that you would need as much power as you have on tap unless you're planning on creating a decibel nightmare in your listening room. Clipping output from underpowered amps is probably more of a risk than lots of clean ;power.

Hi Dennis! Thank you.
Not planning any frat parties. I'll buy Klipsch if I do.

Since we're here... Is there a difference in the sound of the two cabinets? (The curved BMR in cherry vs the box in black?) Can the Cherry-curved still be set up on its side as a center? (Just curious... Swerd's photos look good!)

Cheers!

 

[Swerd]

Since we're here... Is there a difference in the sound of the two cabinets? (The curved BMR in cherry vs the box in black?) Can the Cherry-curved still be set up on its side as a center? (Just curious... Swerd's photos look good!)

The curved cabinets are no longer available. Now it's only those rectangular cabinets, as seen on the Philharmonic web page.

As far as I know, there is no detectable difference in sound between those two cabinets. Dennis, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Not planning any frat parties. I'll buy Klipsch if I do.

Cerwin Vegas are for frat parties . Later in their lives, frat boys buy Klipsch when they think they're moving up to quality HT speakers .

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Hi Dennis! Thank you.
Not planning any frat parties. I'll buy Klipsch if I do.

Since we're here... Is there a difference in the sound of the two cabinets? (The curved BMR in cherry vs the box in black?) Can the Cherry-curved still be set up on its side as a center? (Just curious... Swerd's photos look good!)

Cheers!

The curved cherry in Swerd's pic is an older model that has the same front dimensions as the current piano black cabinets. The only cherry cabinets currently available are shorter and wider, and I don't think the proportions are as pleasing as the taller and thinner cabinet. In any event, I don't have time to put together the cherry cabinet BMR's any more. they're 2-3 days work, vs. 1/2 hour to do the final assembly on the piano black ones. There's no difference in sound between the various cabinets.

 

[ryanosaur]

Cerwin Vegas are for frat parties . Later in their lives, frat boys buy Klipsch when they think they're moving up to quality HT speakers .

Or borrowed peaveys with a borrowed mixing board nobody knows how to use, except the physics major, who also spiked the punch.

 

[ryanosaur]

@Dennis Murphy
Thank you for the update. I just sent my AVR off for round 2 of warranty service. I think I got the lemon. *shrugs
Last time it took almost 3 weeks, which coincides with my various travels. I'm hoping they can figure it out this time!
We'll be talking by Mid December.

Too bad I won't have my rig in place by my Birthday, but soon.

 

[2channel lover]

Hi all! Some of you guys have already helped me out a lot on my quest to redo my Kit. Thanks again!!!
Little background:
8000'3+room, listening area is in about 1/4-1/3 of that space, of center side walls and no rear wall for another ~35'
Marantz SR6012 AVR
Probably going with Emotiva amp for Front 3. But that will depend on the speakers.
Budget for Front 3: ~$3k preferred. Lower is better. Willing to stretch upwards a little if the value is there.
80%Music, 20%HT... love jazz, orchestral, rock, and hip hop

I've looked at lots of stuff on paper and will be auditioning speakers starting next week. Mostly what I would call the mass market stuff. My current front runners (what I'm most excited to hear) are Monitor Audio Silver 500s.

Since I only learned about Ascend in the last two days and like what I see... Got me thinking, what else is out there? I know a lot of the cats I've chatted with really like Salk and Philharmonics, but I'm uncertain if they ar right for my situation..

Is there anything else I should check out before I make a final decision? Thoughts, suggestions?

Thanks to all!

Cheers!

I'm a Salk owner...fairly recent actually, just about a yr now. I demoed a lot of tower speakers in the price range that you're looking. I will say with full bias, your music genres are ideal for Salks.

That said.

Some other OEM speakers

Monitor Audio...you mentioned the Silver... I demoed the Gold 300. Not all ribbon tweeters are good, and these fall short of the RAAL in the Salks, but they are pretty good. The mids don't have the openess of the Accuton mid, but they are smooth and spacious with a healthy bottom end..I'd be curious of your thoughts on the Sliver 500. I didn't spend much time with the Silver, but imo there's a big difference in the gold & silver 300.

Revel...F206 , F208...If I didn't get the Salks I probably would've bought the F208...the little brother F206 is awesome as well, just doesn't go as low, but if you're running them 2.1 or 2.2 I wouldn't be concerned about these being overwhelmed in your large space.

Martin Logan Motion 40...I call this my favorite little floor stander. Refined sound thru the tweeter/mid...definitely would benefit from the sub...a little warmer than Salks or M/A but I like them. IMO the 60 at the time was not a better option even though it was larger and had larger woofers....mids were muddy in comparison to the 40

Golden ear...Triton 1, 2, 3

They don't go as low as the specs say or they didn't seem to listening 2.0 but the 1 is a really nice full range speaker...I think the 2 or 3 might fit your budget...worth a listen imo if there's a GE dealer around.

I was in your shoes and decided to take the leap of faith and bought something I never demoed. In nearly 30 yrs in this hifi genre I'd never done that before so leap of faith in a literal sense. The market is so strong for his product I felt well worst case I re sell them at minimal loss.

They've exceeded every speaker I demoed under $10k and some that cost more than that. But not everyone can take that leap of faith. While you can find owners willing to let you demo theirs, the wait time is something unique to custom speakers.

Just one tidbit on demoing...make it easy on yourself, take the exact same demo material to every demo...keep it light so you'll get thru the entire demo with every speaker, all songs you've heard a lot of times,

It's an exciting time!

Good luck with it!

 

[CB22]

I have no doubt about the capabilities of the BMRs.

Put it to you this way, I actually felt bad watching tv and playing video games with them. I use them solely for music now. Figure I'll put as much wear and tear on my Klipsch's as i can and save these the listening sessions

 

[ryanosaur]

I'd be curious of your thoughts on the Sliver 500. I didn't spend much time with the Silver, but imo there's a big difference in the gold & silver 300.

Hi 2channel. Thanks for your input!
I was in different places and thus not able to direct compare most of these. I suspect the ML Motion 40s suffered a little bit of the same fate as the B&Ws did, which was poor amplification. The Motion 40, was better than the B&W, but I suspect that shouldn't be the case. I was given the opportunity to hear the same B&Ws elswhere, but the model was above my budget for towers anyway. I will listen at some point when I know I can get a good demo.
The Motion 60XTs were properly set up and I fully enjoyed the experience. As best I can compare from day two with the Silver 300s and 500s, I could buy either MA's and be happy, I think. Compared back to the 60XT, the 300s for a grand less sounded delightful. Bass was full and had very good pacing, and the high end wasn't sharp or dominating in any way. The mids to my hi-fi-noob ears were solid and nothing stood out to me as a nuisance or distraction. The 500s did everything a little bit better. They do carry a Gold and Plat model, too, and if I go back for a second round, I will ask to compare just so I can hear the difference.

Revel...F206 , F208...If I didn't get the Salks I probably would've bought the F208...the little brother F206 is awesome as well, just doesn't go as low, but if you're running them 2.1 or 2.2 I wouldn't be concerned about these being overwhelmed in your large space.

I'm intrigued by the Revel lineup, but the Concerta2 is more at my budget... I can say only so often, "what's another $500? Well, I did that for the Silver 500s, and then again for the 60XTs. Ha! There's only 1 other speaker I might spend over 3k for the pair, and until I hear them in a couple weeks, they're just a fantasy.

There is a place I might get to hear the Golden Ears at, though I'm not certain which models they might carry. Many people have brought them up, saying good things.

Which comes back to Salk. I get it. But I'll need to grow into it, I think. If I have a good year, maybe in 18mos. I could see them and some BMRs and Mini-Phils all arranged around me.

Best,
R

 

[ryanosaur]

Put it to you this way, I actually felt bad watching tv and playing video games with them. I use them solely for music now. Figure I'll put as much wear and tear on my Klipsch's as i can and save these the listening sessions

I had a similar thought as I was putting Method Man on in the store the other day. Rza's production over the Monitor Audios was amazing! Same as on the Motion 60XT. 20% HT/video, for me? Hell, the speakers will probably thank me for giving them a break! Cheers!

 

[Swerd]

Put it to you this way, I actually felt bad watching tv and playing video games with them. I use them solely for music now. Figure I'll put as much wear and tear on my Klipsch's as i can and save these the listening sessions

Try listening only the BMRs for everything. Do that for a month or longer. After you get fully used to hearing them, bring out the Klipsch speakers again. Play music & video games on them. I bet you'll wonder why you ever thought they were any good.

I did that comparison about 2 months after I first got SongTowers, years ago. I had older JBL speakers that I still considered old valued friends. After the comparison, I was content to put them away for good.

 

[CB22]

After you get fully used to hearing them, bring out the Klipsch speakers again.

That's what I did. Used the for as the L/R for everything for one month. I was blown away by the fact that i had a floor standing speaker almost 3x the size of the BMR; and the BMR still produced more bass. Wild.

@Swerd read your review of the BMR. IMO, I think wish the BMR had a little bit more "punch" on the bass but that why you gotta go with the Phil 3's. Unfortunately, space doesn't permit for me.

Was actually think about selling on the L/R/C Klipsch's. The treble on this things is just off the waazoooo. The Klipsch tractrix tweeter just seals the show hands down. Depending on how much I can get was thinking getting pair of Focal Aria 948's and leaving the BRM's in my bedroom. Or just get the MTM center channel from Dennis and go Philharmonic for everything. + t it will be fairly easy to move when the time comes to get a new place.

 

[Swerd]

That's what I did. Used the for as the L/R for everything for one month. I was blown away by the fact that i had a floor standing speaker almost 3x the size of the BMR; and the BMR still produced more bass. Wild.

Glad to read you already did that eye-opening comparison. Yes, size alone can be deceiving.

@Swerd read your review of the BMR. IMO, I think wish the BMR had a little bit more "punch" on the bass but that why you gotta go with the Phil 3's. Unfortunately, space doesn't permit for me.

I can agree with that. But a sub woofer that can work from roughly 25 to 40 Hz should work well with the BMRs and won't cost as much. If you want a sub that goes down lower to 20 Hz, then you're going to pay a lot more.
Have you heard Phil 3s?

Was actually think about selling on the L/R/C Klipsch's. The treble on this things is just off the waazoooo. The Klipsch tractrix tweeter just seals the show hands down. Depending on how much I can get was thinking getting pair of Focal Aria 948's and leaving the BRM's in my bedroom. Or just get the MTM center channel from Dennis and go Philharmonic for everything. + t it will be fairly easy to move when the time comes to get a new place.

I'd go ahead and try to sell the Klipschs. If the price is right, you'll get rid of them.

A center from Dennis to go with the BMRs seems like the best way to go. I've heard several different Focal towers in the past. I liked them, but I can't remember the model names. They were all very expensive – too expensive for me to consider.

 

[CB22]

Have you heard Phil 3s?

I have not but judging from the specs, the cabinet, and the size of that woofer. I can only imagine.

I'd go ahead and try to sell the Klipschs. If the price is right, you'll get rid of them.

Thanks for giving me the motivation! I've been thing of this for a while but have just been too damn lazy. Having to clean em up, move em, and deal with the Creiglist peoples.

 

[ryanosaur]

Or just get the MTM center channel from Dennis and go Philharmonic for everything. + t it will be fairly easy to move when the time comes to get a new place.

When I talked to him about it, Dennis suggested that he could do a BMR center; reorient the ribbon so it will be vertical.

As I look at the costing for everything, I keep coming to the conclusion that the Philharmonics might just prove to be the absolute best value. ...To the extent that I might stop my curiosity about UT. I can always upgrade to some Salk Towers in a year or two if I really feel the need.

And the Lady just affirmed that she will not try to hijack the rig and have me move it to the greatroom. Now I can safely consider the smaller rig, and get decent subs to match instead of hedging my bet with grossly oversized subs in my smaller space against a possible move to the larger room.

 

[CB22]

When I talked to him about it, Dennis suggested that he could do a BMR center; reorient the ribbon so it will be vertical.

Hummm. I think I'm gonna email him about that. Very happy with RAAL ribbon tweeter. Don't know much about the Fountek NeoCd3 that used on the MTM but I'm sure Dennis choose that tweeter for a reason.

I keep coming to the conclusion that the Philharmonics might just prove to be the absolute best value.

It really is. I think the next step up from would be some thing like the Phil 3's with a custom finish, the Salk SoundScape8, Focal Sporas or the Bryston Model T. (all between 5k to 10k per pair)

I can always upgrade to some Salk Towers in a year or two if I really feel the need

My thoughts exactly. I've promised myself that the day I buy a house I'm going to throw down big bucks on a pair of full range speakers that will be the center peace of the living room

 

[ryanosaur]

It really is. I think the next step up from would be some thing like the Phil 3's with a custom finish, the Salk SoundScape8...

Alas we can dream.
The Phil 3s have grown on me, to be honest. My budget cut was at 3 for a pair of towers. And I'm trying to picture those 2'd boxes in my room.
It would be nice to come in under budget for a change, though!