"Caravan"... What To Do?

[lovinthehd]

OK. So more criticism, yet crickets waiting for a plan. No solution, no suggestion, just criticism and name calling. Tell me, what do you propose?

I agree that 7k of anybody at the border cannot bring down the US, but they can crash the border. And I agree the Right is using this issue as political ammo, as is the Left. A week before the election we would argue about chocolate or vanilla ice cream, and assign some deep and nefarious psychological meaning to your choice.

My question remains. What do you propose we do about the caravan? Do you have an idea a bit more substantive than name calling?

Even if "we" (here in this little forum) come up with a plan, how would "we" implement such or have any authority to do so? I'm good with current rules/regulations to deal with it, even with the orange one inflating his pitiful ego with military threats and massing such along the anticipated arrival point even if it's long before the damn caravan(s) even get to the border, mostly for posturing for the mid terms and getting guys like you all worried and riled up. I certainly don't expect the current administration to do anything too proactive or humanitarian but it's not up to us to come up with a plan in any case, that's what we elect our leaders to do. Too bad our current "leadership" is so piss-poor.

 

[pewternhrata]

Even if "we" (here in this little forum) come up with a plan, how would "we" implement such or have any authority to do so? I'm good with current rules/regulations to deal with it, even with the orange one inflating his pitiful ego with military threats and massing such along the anticipated arrival point even if it's long before the damn caravan(s) even get to the border, mostly for posturing for the mid terms and getting guys like you all worried and riled up. I certainly don't expect the current administration to do anything too proactive or humanitarian but it's not up to us to come up with a plan in any case, that's what we elect our leaders to do. Too bad our current "leadership" is so piss-poor.

It's called a discussion, 'we' in this forum cant do anything...obviously.
You assume pumping his ego over military threats? So he shouldn't even bother with the border, leave it as is, and hope nothing happens?
Posturing mid terms? Because the left hasn't reported on it at all....
Current potus piss poor...maybe if he was unwilling to take action...he could pull a 'bama and send a drone to lighten the load...
This wasnt supposed to be political but yet again here someone comes with nothing to add to a DISCUSSION on a friggin audio forum but insults and names.

I'm still sticking with the full caravan wont make it BUT I'd rather be safe than sorry. No it's not the initial caravan that I have any concern over (if they even arrive). My concern is moving forward, damn straight put a military presence at the boarder in these situations. The US has to put a foot down, if 'we' dont do anything, what are the long term effects? If there is no action, what's going to prevent a larger flock or multiple caravans to the border? What actions would be taken IF a large caravan crosses at a random entry point? I can only guess a few casualties none of which would be US citizens.

 

[lovinthehd]

It's called a discussion, 'we' in this forum cant do anything...obviously.
You assume pumping his ego over military threats? So he shouldn't even bother with the border, leave it as is, and hope nothing happens?
Posturing mid terms? Because the left hasn't reported on it at all....
Current potus piss poor...maybe if he was unwilling to take action...he could pull a 'bama and send a drone to lighten the load...
This wasnt supposed to be political but yet again here someone comes with nothing to add to a DISCUSSION on a friggin audio forum but insults and names.

I'm still sticking with the full caravan wont make it BUT I'd rather be safe than sorry. No it's not the initial caravan that I have any concern over (if they even arrive). My concern is moving forward, damn straight put a military presence at the boarder in these situations. The US has to put a foot down, if 'we' dont do anything, what are the long term effects? If there is no action, what's going to prevent a larger flock or multiple caravans to the border? What actions would be taken IF a large caravan crosses at a random entry point? I can only guess a few casualties none of which would be US citizens.

What do you mean it's not being reported? You mean just like Fox and the other right wing opinion fests are reporting it to help pump up the drumpf? It's well discussed in many shows I watch in any case, mostly those damn lefty comics who are better sources of news than most of what Fox offers. It is political, there's no way around it. Why would you think the current administration would take no action mystifies me. Why you think the current mess of an administration wouldn't get insults amazes me as well; the names the drumpf has flung his whole life. Makes McCarthy look like a rank amateur. Maybe you support the "executive order" the drumpf thinks he can override the constitution/amendments with....

 

[highfigh]

What do you mean it's not being reported? You mean just like Fox and the other right wing opinion fests are reporting it to help pump up the drumpf? It's well discussed in many shows I watch in any case, mostly those damn lefty comics who are better sources of news than most of what Fox offers. It is political, there's no way around it. Why would you think the current administration would take no action mystifies me. Why you think the current mess of an administration wouldn't get insults amazes me as well; the names the drumpf has flung his whole life. Makes McCarthy look like a rank amateur. Maybe you support the "executive order" the drumpf thinks he can override the constitution/amendments with....

Funny thing about McCarthy- he was right, there WERE Communists & spies in the US government and other places but he went about it badly. Since the US isn't Communist and we were in a diplomatic war with the USSR, yeah, that was a bad thing.

I find it odd that so many on the Left see nothing wrong with how they're operating.

 

[lovinthehd]

Funny thing about McCarthy- he was right, there WERE Communists & spies in the US government and other places but he went about it badly. Since the US isn't Communist and we were in a diplomatic war with the USSR, yeah, that was a bad thing.

I find it odd that so many on the Left see nothing wrong with how they're operating.

McCarthy went about it badly is putting a spin that the best curveball pitchers can't manage.

You're finding what odd exactly? Who is operating what?

 

[pewternhrata]

What do you mean it's not being reported? You mean just like Fox and the other right wing opinion fests are reporting it to help pump up the drumpf? It's well discussed in many shows I watch in any case, mostly those damn lefty comics who are better sources of news than most of what Fox offers. It is political, there's no way around it. Why would you think the current administration would take no action mystifies me. Why you think the current mess of an administration wouldn't get insults amazes me as well; the names the drumpf has flung his whole life. Makes McCarthy look like a rank amateur. Maybe you support the "executive order" the drumpf thinks he can override the constitution/amendments with....

You read that wrong.
Left doesnt report... as in they do
I also didn't say they wouldn't take action.

Not worth going any further as I'm not getting political with this one in respect to the original post.

 

[herbu]

Even if "we" (here in this little forum) come up with a plan, how would "we" implement such or have any authority to do so? I'm good with current rules/regulations to deal with it, even with the orange one inflating his pitiful ego with military threats and massing such along the anticipated arrival point even if it's long before the damn caravan(s) even get to the border, mostly for posturing for the mid terms and getting guys like you all worried and riled up. I certainly don't expect the current administration to do anything too proactive or humanitarian but it's not up to us to come up with a plan in any case, that's what we elect our leaders to do. Too bad our current "leadership" is so piss-poor.

OK. I think you answered my question. You don't have a plan. But you will denigrate and criticize whether we agree on the issue or not. Got it. Thanks for playing.

Now for everybody else, I have another question. When a baby is born on US soil, but neither of his parents are US citizens, should the baby be a citizen? I don't want to debate whether this practice can be changed by Executive Order or not. Let the legal teams work that out. But if you think the baby should be a citizen, I'm interested to hear your reasons.

 

[TheWarrior]

When a baby is born on US soil, but neither of his parents are US citizens, should the baby be a citizen? I don't want to debate whether this practice can be changed by Executive Order or not. Let the legal teams work that out. But if you think the baby should be a citizen, I'm interested to hear your reasons.

Amendment XIV
Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

This is what the constitution says to do. Everyone of them is entitled to the due process of law.

Any questions?

 

[highfigh]

The 14th Amendment was ratified as part of Reconstruction after the Civil War. I think that if it were being debated now, or even within the last 40 years, it would have been written differently. It was used as a way to give citizenship to freed slaves, not to allow people coming from impoverished countries to set up camp and use their children's citizenship as roots for their own lives.

Being a descendant of immigrants, I can't very well have a problem with immigration, per se, but I do have a problem with people skirting immigration law to enter ANY country and people in other countries telling the US that they can't enforce our own laws. No other country has a way to relate to the number of immigrants seen here, yet European countries are clamping down on their own open border situations.

That's a dichotomy that shouldn't be used.

 

[highfigh]

Even Canada isn't letting people just show up and stay-

The Immigration Minister, who went to Canada as a Somali refugee when he was 16),said this-

“We don’t want people to illegally enter our border, and doing so is not a free ticket to Canada,” Mr. Hussen said in an interview. “We are saying, ‘You will be apprehended, screened, detained, fingerprinted, and if you can’t establish a genuine claim, you will be denied refugee protection and removed.’ ”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/13/world/canada/quebec-immigrants-haitians.html

European immigration info-

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/29/624577557/eu-leaders-reach-agreement-on-migrant-crisis

https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/22/europe/europe-refugee-policy/index.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/most-europeans-want-muslim-ban-immigration-control-middle-east-countries-syria-iran-iraq-poll-a7567301.html

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/3/17530946/germany-immigration-angela-merkel-migration

 

[TheWarrior]

“We don’t want people to illegally enter our border, and doing so is not a free ticket to Canada,” Mr. Hussen said in an interview. “We are saying, ‘You will be apprehended, screened, detained, fingerprinted, and if you can’t establish a genuine claim, you will be denied refugee protection and removed.’ ”

Correct, that is called Due Process. Which you are currently wanting to deny the human beings showing up at our border.

 

[highfigh]

Correct, that is called Due Process. Which you are currently wanting to deny the human beings showing up at our border.

If they're being held while vetting is being conducted and sent through the rest of the system, how is it "denying due process"? It's not as if the Trump admin has completely retooled the previous processes. If it's a family, they stay together (or, are supposed to) and if the minors are unaccompanied, they're separated from the adults, as it has been. Asylum-seekers are one thing, immigrants are another. Mexico has offered employment and many have declined- they can't very well call themselves 'refugee' at that point.

Remember, Central America is still trafficking humans on a large scale and that's something those governments should be held accountable for.

 

[TheWarrior]

If they're being held while vetting is being conducted and sent through the rest of the system, how is it "denying due process"? It's not as if the Trump admin has completely retooled the previous processes. If it's a family, they stay together (or, are supposed to) and if the minors are unaccompanied, they're separated from the adults, as it has been. Asylum-seekers are one thing, immigrants are another. Mexico has offered employment and many have declined- they can't very well call themselves 'refugee' at that point.

Remember, Central America is still trafficking humans on a large scale and that's something those governments should be held accountable for.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/07/05/trump-officials-vow-reunite-3-000-migrant-children-parents/759016002/


Remember this? This never happened. It's been more than 3 months since the deadline. Our country is holding children in cages, and that has your support, apparently. Or at least no condemnation!

Again, if these people were being vetted fairly or appropriately, we would not need to pull funds from public programs and FEMA disaster relief to fund the jails these people are being held in, or to increase the number of jails.

Human trafficking is an enormous problem IN EVERY COUNTRY, including ours. Thats why our country keeps getting nailed by the UN for human rights abuses:

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2018/country-chapters/united-states

 

[kystorm]

I'm fine with people coming here legally, all others need to stay out. Enforcing current laws should be mandatory and would be a good start to stop caravans and such

 

[lovinthehd]

OK. I think you answered my question. You don't have a plan. But you will denigrate and criticize whether we agree on the issue or not. Got it. Thanks for playing.

Now for everybody else, I have another question. When a baby is born on US soil, but neither of his parents are US citizens, should the baby be a citizen? I don't want to debate whether this practice can be changed by Executive Order or not. Let the legal teams work that out. But if you think the baby should be a citizen, I'm interested to hear your reasons.

I don't need a plan, I'm fine with the one in place as I said. Your plan is meaningless as well. If you want to kick this football around, that's fine but rather pointless.

I don't see any reason to cancel the 14th amendment, and certainly it's not up to the drumpf via executive order either or a team of lawyers to overturn our constitutional amendments. Unless we can kick out his imported wives and children from those unions, but it's too late for that I think. So immigration was only okay for the caravans of europeans? Good grief.

 

[pewternhrata]

I don't need a plan, I'm fine with the one in place as I said. Your plan is meaningless as well. If you want to kick this football around, that's fine but rather pointless.

I don't see any reason to cancel the 14th amendment, and certainly it's not up to the drumpf via executive order either or a team of lawyers to overturn our constitutional amendments. Unless we can kick out his imported wives and children from those unions, but it's too late for that I think. So immigration was only okay for the caravans of europeans? Good grief.

Immigration for Europeans through Ellis island was no walk in the park, there were policies and procedures that needed to be followed. Entire families were not guaranteed access to US, individuals were not guaranteed access. Families were split up, husbands wives children were separated...Ellis island was not as glamorous as they teach in US history.

I agree with the current 'plan' as well. Not sure what needs to change. IF there is an increase at the border, yes we need to increase personnel to continue the legal processes and continue moving along. If it comes down to violence at the border...we have a military.

 

[TheWarrior]

If it comes down to violence at the border...we have a military.

Our traitor-in-chief is sending the military in ahead of their arrival. And has gone so far as to claim that terrorists may be a part of this caravan, which he just last week admitted he had no proof of: http://time.com/5432702/president-trump-admits-he-has-no-proof-terrorists-are-in-the-migrant-caravan/

Yet Pence continued to support this claim.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/10/23/pence-vouches-trumps-dubious-terrorists-in-the-caravan-claim-with-bogus-stat/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.255008aac80b

I too would love to see our children's history books more accurately, and respectfully, teach our nation's history with the good and the bad. And a lot less about Eli Whitney and the Cotton Gin..... Amazing as it was....

 

[pewternhrata]

Our traitor-in-chief is sending the military in ahead of their arrival. And has gone so far as to claim that terrorists may be a part of this caravan, which he just last week admitted he had no proof of: http://time.com/5432702/president-trump-admits-he-has-no-proof-terrorists-are-in-the-migrant-caravan/

Yet Pence continued to support this claim.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/10/23/pence-vouches-trumps-dubious-terrorists-in-the-caravan-claim-with-bogus-stat/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.255008aac80b

I too would love to see our children's history books more accurately, and respectfully, teach our nation's history with the good and the bad. And a lot less about Eli Whitney and the Cotton Gin..... Amazing as it was....

Could you imagine a classroom full of 3rd graders as they are taught the reality of Christopher Columbus...that would be a Kodak moment for sure. Wonder what kind of phone calls that teacher would get...

 

[TheWarrior]

Could you imagine a classroom full of 3rd graders as they are taught the reality of Christopher Columbus...that would be a Kodak moment for sure. Wonder what kind of phone calls that teacher would get...

As much as I enjoy the humor of that, that is a perfect example of another name that really needs to take a more accurate and respectful place in our nation's history!

 

[panteragstk]

They may not take over, but if enough come in and are granted certain rights & privileges, they could tip the scales.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/state/california/article215095600.html

Also, WRT people holding Sweden up as a model of where the US should go, it would be a good idea to watch this-

Thanks for that. Interesting watch for sure.