Denon AVR-X3400H/X3500H/X4400H/X4500H Owners thread

[KEW]

One last thing to you PENG I think your spot on with the SPL's observation that room is just so gosh darn big to drive but we work with what we got. Next year I believe my feelings on the upgrade are right Get the 3 SVS ultra towers for the front and use the prime towers plus buy 1 more for my surrounds. Plus like we said move up to the 1502 on the crowns. But I will have no problems with the setup as is for now once I make the changes you guys have recommended.

I'm curious about whether changing the mains to small to relieve them of the bass will prevent the Crown from getting into the red lights. I think it is likely!
Also the Ultra's are 1 dB more efficient than the Primes, so that is another "power boost".
You may still want to upgrade the 1002, but I'm not sure you need to make it a priority!

 

[Danzilla31]

Thanks, that's what I meant, that you need to cover all 11 channels in order to use Eco without affecting performance. I edited my post accordingly.

Yeah I understood you my friend Really just thank you for all your help on getting me this far anything you guys ever need I got ya just let me know lol within reason of course

 

[Danzilla31]

I'm curious about whether changing the mains to small to relieve them of the bass will prevent the Crown from getting into the red lights. I think it is likely!
Also the Ultra's are 1 dB more efficient than the Primes, so that is another "power boost".
You may still want to upgrade the 1002, but I'm not sure you need to make it a priority!

Thanks KEW I'm gonna try it before work and I'll let you guys know!

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

This is one AVR that could potentially be the best sounding <$1,000 two channel "integrated" amp that money can buy, with or without Audyssey "On".

Best sounding AVR. I was taught that speakers, speaker placement and rooms create the overall sound.

 

[KEW]

Best sounding AVR. I was taught that speakers, speaker placement and rooms create the overall sound.

I still believe that, but certainly, if you consider systems like Audyssey, there is a difference between the sound of different AVR's.
They should indeed pretty much all sound the same in "Pure direct" mode, but the adjustments applied beyond that will make a difference!

 

[Danzilla31]

HD has given you the correct click and select/press sequence, that is:
Click Setup on the remote to see the Setup menu
Select "Speakers" on the pop up menu to see the next pop up
Select "Manual Setup" to see the next pop up
Select "Speaker Config."
Now you can see that your front and center speakers were set to "Large"
Change them to "small"
Go to the crossover pop up menu and set them all to 80,90 or even 100 Hz to avoid/minimize clipping the XLS1002.

Audyssey did not set them to "large", it reports the findings to the processor, it is Denon's algorithm that determines the "large" and "small" thing. Audyssey sets the levels and generate the necessary EQ filters.

Thank you thank you HD PENG and KEW! I went in to setup and it had set the speakers to large on all the front 3 once I took them off of large I could then go to the bass management and take it off of LFE+Main and put it on LFE only. That is correct yes you want the subs to handle all the bass once the speakers are set to small? Once I did that I was able to correctly adjust crossovers 80 Hz for the fronts 90 Hz for surrounds and 100 Hz for the in ceilings. This should take a huge load off the crowns I'll test it out in an hour. Thank you so much guys that should take a huge load off of the crowns.

 

[Danzilla31]

Best sounding AVR. I was taught that speakers, speaker placement and rooms create the overall sound.

I totally concur from what I've learned but after you get those three things dialed in doesn't good equipment help? I mean I should think good electronics delivered to your speakers once you have great speakers proper placement and figured out your room should be #4 on that list? I'm still learning so I don't know that's a good point you brought up tho

 

[Danzilla31]

Thank you thank you HD PENG and KEW! I went in to setup and it had set the speakers to large on all the front 3 once I took them off of large I could then go to the bass management and take it off of LFE+Main and put it on LFE only. That is correct yes you want the subs to handle all the bass once the speakers are set to small? Once I did that I was able to correctly adjust crossovers 80 Hz for the fronts 90 Hz for surrounds and 100 Hz for the in ceilings. This should take a huge load off the crowns I'll test it out in an hour. Thank you so much guys that should take a huge load off of the crowns.

Man I knew something was off when I saw those front 3 working that hard last night. It's a testament to SVS that those prime towers handled that so well cud I had those bad boys cranked with those crowns!

 

[KEW]

Thank you thank you HD PENG and KEW! I went in to setup and it had set the speakers to large on all the front 3 once I took them off of large I could then go to the bass management and take it off of LFE+Main and put it on LFE only. That is correct yes you want the subs to handle all the bass once the speakers are set to small? Once I did that I was able to correctly adjust crossovers 80 Hz for the fronts 90 Hz for surrounds and 100 Hz for the in ceilings. This should take a huge load off the crowns I'll test it out in an hour. Thank you so much guys that should take a huge load off of the crowns.

If you set them below 80 Hz you will likely get much more bass cancellation, and that means wasting some of the gigantic PB4000's output. You really should set the surrounds and ceiling ones to 100 Hz or 120 Hz, for the way you are driving them, they are endangered species in your set up.

Both the Crowns and your surrounds thank you for showing them mercy!!!

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

I still believe that, but certainly, if you consider systems like Audyssey, there is a difference between the sound of different AVR's.
They should indeed pretty much all sound the same in "Pure direct" mode, but the adjustments applied beyond that will make a difference!

If you performed a volume level matched blind test with AVRs with different room correction firmware and heard real differences, in the end, the differences would be small and still be subjective.

 

[KEW]

If you performed a volume level matched blind test with AVRs with different room correction firmware and heard real differences, in the end, the differences would be small and still be subjective.

Not sure what you are saying.
Obviously, if I AB speakers or rooms and hear real differences the differences are still subjective. I'm not sure about small. I would expect there to be a significant difference between the earliest version of Audyssey EQ and XT32. IIRC, the earlier versions and some of the more recent offerings from Onkyo/Yamaha/Pioneer did not EQ the subwoofer at all!
Then you have a feature like Audyssey Dynamic EQ...just ask ADTG... actually, let's not! Don't get him started!
I could believe the differences attested to may have been Audyssey Dynamic EQ alone. It is not a stretch that the earlier units that have been compared pre-dated Dynamic EQ.
But without knowing more specifics on a case by case basis, I think we have to consider that some of the difference could just as well be the bias/excitement of new gear.

 

[PENG]

Best sounding AVR. I was taught that speakers, speaker placement and rooms create the overall sound.

I think if one can ignore it's video and multi-channel features, the X3400H could in fact be the best 2 channel integrated amp with build in DAC and excellent bass management, plus network streaming and wireless capabilities that $600 or even $1000 can buy.

 

[PENG]

Man I knew something was off when I saw those front 3 working that hard last night. It's a testament to SVS that those prime towers handled that so well cud I had those bad boys cranked with those crowns!

No surprise here, they are the bass expert after all!!
With XO at 80 Hz, the prime's 6.5" drivers can now do a better job producing the lower mid bass. Anything below 80 Hz are best handled by the PB4000. You should be feeling the heavier and crispier punches now.

 

[Hobbit]

I asked AH's to recommend me an AVR after my Integra 40.2 died. The AVR-X3400H was one of the recommended models and looked like a plug and play replacement. I first looked at BB thinking I might be able to nab one on the way home. They still had it but in the $1k range. Which was the range I was expecting to pay. Along came @PENG saying it's available for $599. A quick search, Crutchfield had it at this price, and I was set. Free shipping too and it came two days later For $599 I wasn't even going to think about future upgrading.

Setup was super easy. Much, MUCH, nicer than the Integra. My initial thought after setting it up was it sounds better. Which of course I wrote off as a placebo effect. Then my gf came over and said the same thing! Totally unsolicited. She's someone who never made a comment like that before. I thought perhaps there's something to this? OK, so nothing scientific. No side by side comparison. But we both had the same conclusion. I'm running KEF speakers, Emotiva amps, and SVS subs. I still haven't played around with the crossovers yet per Peng's suggestion. There may be room for further improvement.

About the only real con I can come up with is the remote. The one on the 3400 isn't programmable. However, I picked up a Harmony which by far is the easiest to program and best remote I ever used. The first time I used it it didn't go to my "home" tv channel. The screen said hit help if it didn't work. I hit help and it said try again. It worked this time. Thinking it changed sequence timing I'm guessing no OEM is as simple as this.

Beyond that, I doubt I'll ever use HEOS. I do wish it came with something like built in chromecast instead. Nonetheless, I had a chromecast music dongle already (optical into the Denon). I have a couple of dongles and one system with cc built in. Makes for a great way to fill the house with music. As long as your phone is nearby you can change what you're listening on the spot. Great for when guests are over.

Along the same line I'm using a ROKU for streaming music. Nicer interface. Beyond the internet radios, apps like Plex let me stream my collection from my computer's HD. Cool thing is the Denon seems to know music and has been going to stereo mode without my having to interact Most devices I've used, including the Integra, would default to surround sound. I should still give the Denon internet radio a try being I downloaded the apps.

While I'm at it, another plus is the Denon let's you customize names. I always wanted that feature on the Integra...

Mike

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

I think if one can ignore it's video and multi-channel features, the X3400H could in fact be the best 2 channel integrated amp with build in DAC and excellent bass management, plus network streaming and wireless capabilities that $600 or even $1000 can buy.

That's different than what you said earlier.

"could potentially be the best sounding"

As you already know, that would have to be proven by science and not subjective listening. I own the X4400H and it sounds great because of my speakers and speaker placement.

 

[PENG]

That's different than what you said earlier.

"could potentially be the best sounding"

As you already know, that would have to be proven by science and not subjective listening. I own the X4400H and it sounds great because of my speakers and speaker placement.

You are right, I should edit that post.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

I hope you didn't take it as sounding condescending. I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and experience. You've helped a lot of people on this forum including me.

 

[PENG]

I hope you didn't take it as sounding condescending. I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and experience. You've helped a lot of people on this forum including me.

Not at all, I missstated it for sure..

I think it is fair to add the word "neutral", based on specs verifiable by two bench test (AH and S&V).

 

[PENG]

I am hoping to hear from AVR-X3500/4500/6500H owners.

 

[Ataraxia]

I'm following this thread too. I recently upgraded my speakers to KEF R3's for front L/R, and will soon close in on a sub to match, leaning towards Rythmik F12-300. Possible terminal setups being 2.1, 2.2, 3.1,or 3.2.

I'm currentlly using my old Yamaha RX V473 and am pleasantly surprised with it's performance with the R3's.

I considered quite a few options for AVR's and integrated amps but finally ordered the X4400H. It was a close call between that and Marantz 7012 but the X4400H seemed like a better value...Next I'm educating myself about whether or not an outboard 2 channel amp will help make the L/R front R3's really sing.

I'm hoping to get great sound for both music and movies, maybe 50/50 music/movies.