optical vs stereo vs HDMI out

R

ruffman

Enthusiast
Hi...
i have an older Arcam 137 dvd player that i was going to use only for CD playback but i noticed i have several audio output options (going to a marantz AV7704). I have optical, stereo out (which i assume is analog?) and HDMI so which one to use?
 
WineOfTheVeins

WineOfTheVeins

Audioholic
I hated HDMI audio. I'd go with optical. Sounds much better, don't believe me, try for yourself. :)
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I haven't had an experience where I hated a type of digital connection, let alone an appreciable difference. HDMI is more capable but if all you're doing is standard 2ch CDs then try each and see if you have a preference between the hdmi/optical or your analog outs (using the dac in your player rather than in your prepro).
 
WineOfTheVeins

WineOfTheVeins

Audioholic
I haven't had an experience where I hated a type of digital connection, let alone an appreciable difference. HDMI is more capable but if all you're doing is standard 2ch CDs then try each and see if you have a preference between the hdmi/optical or your analog outs (using the dac in your player rather than in your prepro).
Only one I hated was HDMI. Was absolute garbage. Come over one time, I'll show you the difference.
 
Montucky

Montucky

Full Audioholic
I've certainly yielded different results doing each of the 3 on the same player, but I just chalk that up to HOW the player outputs and not so much the methods in and of themselves.

The only way you can know for sure is to do an A/B/C test and see what you think! There is no clear cut answer since there are a gazillion factors at play here.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Only one I hated was HDMI. Was absolute garbage. Come over one time, I'll show you the difference.
Thanks for the invite but goth creeps me out :) Besides, you're way too far north :) I use hdmi all the time, not a problem compared to optical, which I also use. Maybe it was something else.
 
WineOfTheVeins

WineOfTheVeins

Audioholic
Thanks for the invite but goth creeps me out :) Besides, you're way too far north :) I use hdmi all the time, not a problem compared to optical, which I also use. Maybe it was something else.
I don't bite; hard.
It's possible. I had my 5.1 hooked up to my Denon AVR via HDMI, it was brutal in comparison to Toslink. I am not talking a .5% golden ear difference, I am talking night and day. Maybe something is buggered in the HDMI decoding of the sound in the Denon? I know I am not the only one with this opinion though, ask around the forum or some audiophile buds.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Shouldn't have been much different, if at all. Something may have been wrong. In this forum I doubt your position is going to be supported much. Most audiophiles' subjective opinions I ignore.
 
WineOfTheVeins

WineOfTheVeins

Audioholic
Optical has a huge advantage in heavily RFI-infested environments such as today's average home, in that it is entirely immune to any interference. Whereas a standard HDMI transmission, which uses shielded copper wires, can potentially have its data corrupt by EMF RFI. This is especially true on long cable runs. Could also have something to do with it. It went from crackly and distorted to clear and loud. Try both, see what you like.
 
D

Drunkpenguin

Audioholic Chief
I like hdmi. But this is a good question. Why does hdmi have more bandwidth than optical? Seems like it should be the other way around.

And while we're at it, why cant we find one cable and stick with it forever? I'm so tired of cables changing all the damn time.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Optical has a huge advantage in heavily RFI-infested environments such as today's average home, in that it is entirely immune to any interference. Whereas a standard HDMI transmission, which uses shielded copper wires, can potentially have its data corrupt by EMF RFI. This is especially true on long cable runs. Could also have something to do with it. It went from crackly and distorted to clear and loud. Try both, see what you like.
I don't have a heavily RFI infested place nor do I use very long hdmi runs. Maybe it's you who should be trying something more than one way....or move out of your heavily infested rfi homes.
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
OP, here's the deal: RCA is outputting the digital to analog conversion, Toslink is outputting digital up to 24/96 (DVD audio rate),and HDMI is outputting up to 24/192 PCM or DSD. What's best is what is compatible. I have a DVD Player, no HDMI. I did not get that feature until I purchased my first BD Player. Still, I do not use an HDMI connection to amp since my amp does not have an HDMI input. Since my amp does not have an HDMI input, I output RCA from my OPPO Player for all media. That's to say, I let the OPPO decode digital to analog from usb DAC input, usb flash drive input, and disc input. This allows me to play anything from mp3's to 24/192 without any thinking about what sending of receiving component bit and bite rates are set to. I simply set each source to output at its highest rate and the OPPO is set to up sample all input to 24/192 and decode.
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I like hdmi. But this is a good question. Why does hdmi have more bandwidth than optical? Seems like it should be the other way around.

And while we're at it, why cant we find one cable and stick with it forever? I'm so tired of cables changing all the damn time.
I don't know why optical has less bandwidth, probably to do with when the design originated? Seems hdmi won't change anytime soon....unless something comes along to necessitate some more churn?
 
D

Drunkpenguin

Audioholic Chief
I know, but my point was it seems like every time I buy something I need a new version of hdmi which is really annoying when all your cables run through walls and ceilings.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I know, but my point was it seems like every time I buy something I need a new version of hdmi which is really annoying when all your cables run through walls and ceilings.
LOL, gotcha. I've not had to change cables yet, bought good hi speed ones as that's all I need, but don't use 4k or Atmos either....altho having ARC actually being more useful could be nice but not nice enough to upgrade just for that. At least they're backwards compatible...
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
I know, but my point was it seems like every time I buy something I need a new version of hdmi which is really annoying when all your cables run through walls and ceilings.
LOL, gotcha. I've not had to change cables yet, bought good hi speed ones as that's all I need, but don't use 4k or Atmos either....altho having ARC actually being more useful could be nice but not nice enough to upgrade just for that. At least they're backwards compatible...
I do not have any interest in whole house audio/video and its trappings such as mechanisms to pull shades and dim lights by remote control, or anything like that sort of thing. It was difficult enough just to run speaker wire from one side of my "media room" to the other to power my passive surrounds incorporated in my 5.1 system; however, I have recently been bit by the Atmos bug, causing me to think how I can fish speaker wire to my ceiling. Forgive the pun but it's a tall order, since rafters are 2 x 4's and are filled with fiberglass insulation. At any rate, I just want to say I feel your pain. It all makes the case for battery powered active Bluetooth speakers.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Hi...
i have an older Arcam 137 dvd player that i was going to use only for CD playback but i noticed i have several audio output options (going to a marantz AV7704). I have optical, stereo out (which i assume is analog?) and HDMI so which one to use?
Here's the deal, your RCA stereo connections are analog. It has been used quite successfully for years and I find it hard to believe that people are routinely hearing problems with this format. Consider that the cables musicians use to plug their instruments into amps are still analog. The exception is if you are in a very electromagnetically noisy environment. If you run and tie wrap your RCA cables alongside your speaker or AC power cables you will have the type of noisy environment, but as long as you keep them a few inches from each other, you should be fine!
Digital (which includes HDMI and optical) was developed because, by encoding the analog signal into an on-off (0's and 1's),you are no longer concerned about the magnitude of the signal. In other words, say you have a abnormally long run of cable, an analog signal might lose 2% of it's strength over that distance. That would mean it would reduce the SPL of the music by 2% effectively reducing the dynamic range. However, in the land of 0's and 1's, a 0 reduced by 2% (or increased by 2% from external RFI is still recognized as a zero (or off),and a 1 reduced by 2% is still clearly a 1 (or "on") for a system designed to recognize only 0's or 1's (in other words it effectively rounds off the magnitude to either 1 or 0 whichever is closest to to value received - as you can imagine it would take substantial interference to cause a 50% or greater error in magnitude).
So, digital is essentially a noise reduction technology when you are talking cable choice (obviously, it is also a recording technology and a medium in which you can more precisely alter the signal, but that does not effect your choice of cable format).

So TL;DR:
All should work perfectly (without an audible difference) in a normal environment!
However, because poop happens, I am inclined to use digital because I could accidentally end up with low-level (RCA) and high-level (speaker or AC) cables next to one another.
Between HDMI and TosLink optical, I would go optical as long as the bandwidth of your information can be carried. I like optical because there is only one signal (one strand of "clear fishing line" in the cable) which makes it a very simple cable that either works or doesn't. Simple is almost always better from a reliability standpoint. Optical is also immune to Ground Faults!
HDMI has multiple (maybe 18?) signals/wires with terminations to sockets at both ends. Add the stresses of flexing this bundle of metal wires and my ignorance of what information is carried among the different wires, I don't think it is as reliable and I worry that I could get a short or intermittent connection in one of these wires that would be hard to troubleshoot.

On the question of bandwidth, I believe it is a matter that 18 electrical conduits/wires can carry more than one optical conduit/strand.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
The ground loop thing can be an advantage for optical....but I haven't had ground loop issues from hdmi OTOH.
 

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