A good "sucking" gadget

[WineOfTheVeins]

Good day;

I have been coming across some nice 30+ yr old LPs, and buying some new ones, that's all fine and dandy. Problem is the cleaning of them. Believe it or not, I find the new sealed albums need more love than old ones. They are statically charged like a balloon off a girl's head, they come with murky who-knows-what on them, sometimes fingerprints from the factory, paper sleeve residue, and dust/machine grime. I tried putting my lips around a 3" section of the LP while it was turning and sucking real hard. Didn't do anything.. ..jk

A record shop I bought a sealed LP from came sounding like crap. They gave it a spin on their VPI cleaning machine, the guy said there was a fair bit of crap that came off it, and it was brand new! So that raised the question. What's a good cleaning method? Seems everyone has their own opinions and techniques on the matter. Personally, I think there needs to be some suction involved. A dry sweep helps a little bit, but I would like to give my records, new or old, a wet wash before playing, then of course a new set of undies to climb into. I saw the Vinyl Vac, seems expensive for a stick of PVC with some fabric on the end. I can make my own for a few bucks. I thought about making my own, on an old lazy susan or a used table from the thrift shop. I don't really like the idea of paying $800 for a VPI or Okki Nokki with the amount of vinyl I have. I have tried spraying and wiping, then drying with microfiber, but I can't help but think there is residue leftover deep in the grooves; hence the suction being crucial.

Has anyone used the Vinyl Vac or made their own? How did it work? It seems like it's the way to go. Is the same idea and probably does a similar job as those expensive units.. Distilled, isopropyl, brush, suck up the sludge, out comes a shinier record than what it was from the factory. Thoughts?

 

[NorCalRP]

Have you thought about blowing instead? Getting a small air compressor? Can be had for about $100 and you can get an attachment and run the pressure around 125psi

 

[TLS Guy]

Cleaning records is a difficult problem. Usually people make matters use, by getting cleaning fluid solute like detergents stuck deep in the groove.

The best defense is to never allow a record to get dirty. If you buy one dirty you have a problem. I suspect your sealed problem records are American pressing from the 80s. A lot of reground vinyl was used. The paper label .was not removed and got worked into the vinyl. It looks like dust, but it isn't and there is nothing you can do about it. In that era I would not buy US pressings. I used to purchase from a firm out East that only carried European pressings.

Keeping a record clean means only handling it at the edge and label. Only leave it out while being played. Reurn it to the sleeve promptly and put the sleeve in the jacket sideways, so the record is sealed. Store records vertically under slight pressure.

I use the Cecil E Watts Dust bug at every playing. They still come up on eBay. That is the only cleaning device that ever really worked.

If you get a fouled record a cleaning machine is really the only answer, but they are really costly.

Keith Monks have made them for years. The Loricraft now owned by SME who now own the rights to the Garrard name is also a good one. Nitti Gritti is an American brand of cleaners.

A fouled record though is a difficult problem with no solution. Don't try that carpenter glue solution.

 

[slipperybidness]

Cleaning records is a difficult problem. Usually people make matters use, by getting cleaning fluid solute like detergents stuck deep in the groove.

The best defense is to never allow a record to get dirty. If you buy one dirty you have a problem. I suspect your sealed problem records are American pressing from the 80s. A lot of reground vinyl was used. The paper label .was not removed and got worked into the vinyl. It looks like dust, but it isn't and there is nothing you can do about it. In that era I would not buy US pressings. I used to purchase from a firm out East that only carried European pressings.

Keeping a record clean means only handling it at the edge and label. Only leave it out while being played. Reurn it to the sleeve promptly and put the sleeve in the jacket sideways, so the record is sealed. Store records vertically under slight pressure.

I use the Cecil E Watts Dust bug at every playing. They still come up on eBay. That is the only cleaning device that ever really worked.

If you get a fouled record a cleaning machine is really the only answer, but they are really costly.

Keith Monks have made them for years. The Loricraft now owned by SME who now own the rights to the Garrard name is also a good one. Nitti Gritti is an American brand of cleaners.

A fouled record though is a difficult problem with no solution. Don't try that carpenter glue solution.

Are you familiar with Alconox? It is a common surfactant/detergent for lab use.

It is one of the best surfactants, in terms of the least additives and residue.

I've never tried it on vinyl, but it seems like it might be worth a try.

 

[TLS Guy]

Are you familiar with Alconox? It is a common surfactant/detergent for lab use.

It is one of the best surfactants, in terms of the least additives and residue.

I've never tried it on vinyl, but it seems like it might be worth a try.

Never heard of it. I actually don't have a problem with noisy surfaces in my collection, due to proper handling and I suspect Cecil E. Watts needs a lot of the credit. He did lots of bench research on the issue and took really good Electron micrographs. The problem is that the worst offending grit, is stuck deep in the grooves and requires a lot of suction to remove. Hence the expensive Keith Monks machines.

His Dust Bug, though really is a wonder. He designed the bristles and plush pad on the basis of his research.
His device really works and has been very popular.

He was an early casualty after the UK joined the EU (EUSSR). He sold a lot on Europe and had a dutch agent. Anyhow they trumped up some ridiculous charge about not having the right paper work. They enforced a massive fine, that put him out of business and broke him financially. He was such a nice man too. His wife wrote a touching biography after his death.

Right then I knew the EU was rotten to the core and still is. Brexit, Brexit, Brexit, and the sooner the better.

 

[slipperybidness]

Never heard of it. I actually don't have a problem with noisy surfaces in my collection, due to proper handling and I suspect Cecil E. Watts needs a lot of the credit. He did lots of bench research on the issue and took really good Electron micrographs. The problem is that the worst offending grit, is stuck deep in the grooves and requires a lot of suction to remove. Hence the expensive Keith Monks machines.

His Dust Bug, though really is a wonder. He designed the bristles and plush pad on the basis of his research.
His device really works and has been very popular.

He was an early casualty after the UK joined the EU (EUSSR). He sold a lot on Europe and had a dutch agent. Anyhow they trumped up some ridiculous charge about not having the right paper work. They enforced a massive fine, that put him out of business and broke him financially. He was such a nice man too. His wife wrote a touching biography after his death.

Right then I knew the EU was rotten to the core and still is. Brexit, Brexit, Brexit, and the sooner the better.

I indeed own a dust bug. A couple years ago, you found a listing on eBay and told another forum user to buy it, but he was too slow and I snatched it

It also came with the "record preaner", I think you told me that it wasn't a very useful device?

For the price of a vac record cleaning machine, I would typically choose to buy new vinyl vs. spend the $ to try to clean up old vinyl!

There is a local shop that will clean vinyl with a Nitty Gritty at $2 a pop, but I never tried that service.

 

[WineOfTheVeins]

Thank you very much for all of the helpful input.
While I agree proper handling is very important, and I am dead careful when handling records, a lot of the time the problem comes from the factory. I have opened a few new records now, that already have swirls, scuffs, fingerprints and other paper/dust residue on them. While sometimes this isn't an issue as it hardly affects the performance, other times it is! That record that I was talking about, Cleopatra by the Lumineers. Absolute garbage. Horrible job pressing. After cleaning it on their VPI, and it didn't help even though they said it was filthy, they replaced it with another copy. Gave the second copy a spin last night, same damn problem. Tons of surface noise, crackles, pops, and it wasn't static, as a lot of the constant revolution clicks were in the same damn place as the last one. So annoying. I have returned probably 30% of the new vinyl I have bought.
I don't believe I've bought a sealed pressing from the 80's but I will keep that in mind.

I digress. A poor pressing is a poor pressing. I am looking to get thrift finds, and new sealed ones minty clean before playing preferably. I am finding sometimes that a 1970's record I buy used plays nicer than a package-fresh one. So much grime and poor QC at some plants, not all.

The air compressor!! I never thought of that before.. Does that work? I do have a Bostitch air compressor that throws 150psi I believe. What would be the recommended process for cleaning via compressor? Wash first? Just dry blast with air?

Haven't heard of Alconox, wonder if I can get my hands on some. Also, I will look into the Dust Bug. Thank you boys

 

[WineOfTheVeins]

I have a little spray gun attachment that looks like this, sort of. Would that work?

https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.air-blow-gun.1000750236.html?eid=PS_GOOGLE_HD+|+E-Comm_E-Comm+|+Shopping+|+All+Products+-+FR_All+Products+-+FR_pla-296303633664&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8pe12rPM3QIVE7nACh1yiQNgEAQYBCABEgKzw_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=COLHo9yzzN0CFcvCwAodx3kI4w

 

[3db]

Are you familiar with Alconox? It is a common surfactant/detergent for lab use.

It is one of the best surfactants, in terms of the least additives and residue.

I've never tried it on vinyl, but it seems like it might be worth a try.

Let me know how that works. I'm really curious.

I can relate to the OP where some new sealed albums come out of teh package looking very dusty and full of static cling. After dry cleaning using an old disc-washer brush, I use an anti-static gun to get rid of the static buildup. It seems to work well.

 

[slipperybidness]

Haven't heard of Alconox, wonder if I can get my hands on some. Also, I will look into the Dust Bug. Thank you boys

Grainger would be the most likely place to find it off the shelf
https://www.grainger.com/search?searchQuery=alconox&suggestConfigId=6&searchBar=true

Technically, Alconox is the brand, then they have several products for various applications.

 

[Swerd]

Cleaning records has always been somewhat awkward. The real problem is dust, fingerprints, static electricity. If fingerprint oils mixed with dust gets driven into the record groves, it turns into an abrasive paste. Under the passing pressure of a stylus, this paste will do harm.

As you noted, the commercially sold record cleaning systems, vacuums and ultrasonic cleaners, are not worth their obscene prices. Nonetheless, it is worth understanding how inexpensive detergents and cleaning solutions can work well. Several years ago, this subject was discussed. I remember two short threads on the subject that you might want to read:

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/ultrasonic-cleaner.77152/#post-846301

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/record-cleaner-demo.77568/#post-850915

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Sorry for offtopic, but couldn't quite hold it, I mean OP did ask about "sucking" gadget

 

[Swerd]

Grainger would be the most likely place to find it off the shelf
https://www.grainger.com/search?searchQuery=alconox&suggestConfigId=6&searchBar=true

Technically, Alconox is the brand, then they have several products for various applications.

Although detergents like the various types sold under the Alconox brand name will work, so will much less expensive detergents. I use liquid dish washing detergents sold in any grocery store. These are detergents for hand washing, not for dishwasher machines. Any brand will do.

The key is is to use a very DILUTE solution of detergent. One or two drops in a gallon of water. If the solution gets sudsy, you put in too much detergent. This will dissolve grease from finger prints or the residues left after pressing records. It also suspends the dust and debris so it easily rinses off. Use water to rinse, tap water is fine. After that, do a final rinse with a mixture of isopropyl alcohol and distilled or deionized water. Both are available in drug stores. The isopropanol/water mix dries faster than water alone, and won't leave water spots on the record's surface. (Water spots are deposits of calcium carbonate, lime salts, that are in hard tap water.)

I don't know if compressed air will remove dust from records. It can't blow off dust that adheres because of static electricity and fingerprint oils. Compressed air, if clean, might dry records faster after they've been washed.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

Sorry for offtopic, but couldn't quite hold it, I mean OP did ask about "sucking" gadget

Lol, I've been looking at this topic for 2 days and trying really hard NOT to post something off topic.

 

[MrBoat]

Denatured alcohol mixed with water works. So do low residue detergents such as laundry soap. My favorite would be Dawn dish detergent and I would not worry too much with the concentration, so long as it's somewhat easily rinsed. It should feel slightly soapy to touch, if you want to remove something like greasy fingerprints with it. It's vinyl. It would take a very hot solvent such as that which melts (solvent welds) PVC to harm it. More concern would be with the cloth instead, making sure it did not have debris like sand stuck in it. The other would be not getting the label wet.

 

[WineOfTheVeins]

Lol. Every time I mention sucking around boys xD It's true though, there needs to be some kind of suction to ..do the job.

I will mess around with your suggested methods, starting with the less valued records to see what works the best. I have a couple filthy ones that could use a real good sucking.

Nobody replied about the blowing though? I've never seen or heard anyone try an air compressor. Was that serious or is it a bad idea?

 

[Drunkpenguin]

Lol. Every time I mention sucking around boys xD It's true though, there needs to be some kind of suction to ..do the job.

I will mess around with your suggested methods, starting with the less valued records to see what works the best. I have a couple filthy ones that could use a real good sucking.

Nobody replied about the blowing though? I've never seen or heard anyone try an air compressor. Was that serious or is it a bad idea?

That didn't help at all lol.

 

[WineOfTheVeins]

That didn't help at all lol.

 

[John Parks]

I hope you all realize that this is exactly how one becomes involved with a vampire! Oh sure, the means have changed but the method is the same... Watch you necks! And, um, wash your necks... Wait - what?

 

[Swerd]

Nobody replied about the blowing though? I've never seen or heard anyone try an air compressor. Was that serious or is it a bad idea?

I added an answer as an edit to another post above. I said:

​

"I don't know if compressed air will remove dust from records. It can't blow off dust that adheres because of static electricity and fingerprint oils. Compressed air, if clean, might dry records faster after they've been washed."​