Denon AVR-X4400H - Initial Setup

[-Jim-]

Hi Gang,

The bathroom reno has stalled as my wife is struggling with selecting everything (Tiles, Flooring, Taps, Tub, Toilet, lighting, etc.,). So today I played with the USB connection / media player with mostly FLAC Files and a couple MP3s (just to make sure they would work). I connected a 500 Gig hard drive to the USB connection that was full of tunes in Folders but it wouldn't display them. (I assume there are more than 500 but I'll check that later .) But when I set it to display Albums, there seemed to all of them there.

I like the Media Player better than any I've tried on the receivers I own. I particularly love that you can compile a list of tunes to play; as I've never had that before. And the x4400 is fast at scrolling through the tunes and albums. Well done Denon!

 

[everettT]

Hi Gang,

The bathroom reno has stalled as my wife is struggling with selecting everything (Tiles, Flooring, Taps, Tub, Toilet, lighting, etc.,). So today I played with the USB connection / media player with mostly FLAC Files and a couple MP3s (just to make sure they would work). I connected a 500 Gig hard drive to the USB connection that was full of tunes in Folders but it wouldn't display them. (I assume there are more than 500 but I'll check that later .) But when I set it to display Albums, there seemed to all of them there.

I like the Media Player better than any I've tried on the receivers I own. I particularly love that you can compile a list of tunes to play; as I've never had that before. And the x4400 is fast at scrolling through the tunes and albums. Well done Denon!

The usb might not take a 500gig usb, might be 256, I'd have check manual. Also it might like to see a certain folder structure.

 

[-Jim-]

Today I took Peng's suggestion and ordered two:

AC Infinity MULTIFAN S3, Quiet 120mm USB Fan

I was playing my Rock & Roll Hall of fame Blu-Ray close to reference levels the other day, and after an hour I noticed quite an increase in temperature. I figure I might want to keep it cooler to increase it's life. However, I wonder if blowing down or pulling air up would be better. I suspect the latter as the already are 2 fans at the bottom which I assume blow air up and through the chassis.

I have an Infrared Thermo-gun that I'll take some before & after readings to see how well they works.

 

[Leemix]

Pull air up is by far the most effective yes


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[-Jim-]

Amazon Prime is amazing. They came today!

Peng, how many are you running on your 4400?

 

[PENG]

Amazon Prime is amazing. They came today!

Peng, how many are you running on your 4400?

Only 7, still trying to figure out the best way to mount 4 more and feed them.

 

[-Jim-]

Ony 7 Fans ??? => I'm thinking you meant speakers and are looking to add 4 more for Atmos??

I was asking about how many Fans you put on top of your 4400...

 

[PENG]

Ony 7 Fans ??? => I'm thinking you meant speakers and are looking to add 4 more for Atmos??

I was asking about how many Fans you put on top of your 4400...

One on top and one at the back (blow horizontally). Both 80 mm, could have use just one 120 mm on. From top of the 4400 to bottom of the shelf, I have only 2.5". With Eco on now, it runs cool, before that it was still touching 40 deg C but that would have been fine too.

I have one 120 mm on top of the MM8003 on low speed but I have 4" of clearance in that compartment.

 

[-Jim-]

Thanks Peng. I bought two 120 mm as they weren't much money, and shipped for free. I'm thinking one should suffice.

 

[-Jim-]

One on top and one at the back (blow horizontally). Both 80 mm, could have use just one 120 mm on. From top of the 4400 to bottom of the shelf, I have only 2.5". With Eco on now, it runs cool, before that it was still touching 40 deg C but that would have been fine too.

I have one 120 mm on top of the MM8003 on low speed but I have 4" of clearance in that compartment.

Based on your feedback and others, I'll try ECO on Auto (and maybe lose one Fan).

Here's an explanation I found on another Site:

Response By Email (NJ Customer Service & Support) (10/11/2016 12:08 PM)
Hi Michael,
When ECO Mode is used, voltage for the amp stage decreases about 1/3 and amplifier stage energy loss decreases about 1/6 compared to ECO Mode being OFF.
It is recommend when using external amplification to leave ECO Mode set to ON. This will reduce power consumption to less than 70W.
When using ECO Mode ON at lower volume levels (under 45 Absolute) power consumption is about 1/2 as compared to leaving ECO Mode OFF. This is useful if using the AVR at night and you do not want to disturb others.
When using ECO Mode Auto, the circuit will control the power supply voltage by a relay. If the volume level is more than 45 Absolute the circuit will cut off. If the volume is less than 45 Absolute the circuit will switch on automatically. If listening at the threshold level (45) you will hear the relay clicking on and off frequently. Voltage for the amp stage does not change here, so power consumption would be the same as normal.

Thank You,
D+M Custom Install

 

[PENG]

Based on your feedback and others, I'll try ECO on Auto (and maybe lose one Fan).

Here's an explanation I found on another Site:

Response By Email (NJ Customer Service & Support) (10/11/2016 12:08 PM)
Hi Michael,
When ECO Mode is used, voltage for the amp stage decreases about 1/3 and amplifier stage energy loss decreases about 1/6 compared to ECO Mode being OFF.
It is recommend when using external amplification to leave ECO Mode set to ON. This will reduce power consumption to less than 70W.
When using ECO Mode ON at lower volume levels (under 45 Absolute) power consumption is about 1/2 as compared to leaving ECO Mode OFF. This is useful if using the AVR at night and you do not want to disturb others.
When using ECO Mode Auto, the circuit will control the power supply voltage by a relay. If the volume level is more than 45 Absolute the circuit will cut off. If the volume is less than 45 Absolute the circuit will switch on automatically. If listening at the threshold level (45) you will hear the relay clicking on and off frequently. Voltage for the amp stage does not change here, so power consumption would be the same as normal.

Thank You,
D+M Custom Install

If you are using the internal amps, "Auto" may not work for you unless you listen with your volume level below the threshold, and that would be the D&M mentioned threshold level (45). If you do an experiment, you will find that it is actually more like (50), or -30 in the relative scale, at least that is the case with our AVR-X4400H.

It is still a good idea to use the "auto" mode though, because at least any time you turn your volume below -30 you will be saving energy while lowering the temperature further but do keep the Infinity fans on regardless.

 

[-Jim-]

Thanks Peng,

I'm still miffed that these behaviors are required on a piece of expensive audio equipment supposedly well designed & engineered. But it is what it is...

By the way, I just got off the phone with HSU and ordered a 3.0 CCB-8 package to replace my aged front speakers. They are having their "Fall Sale" so I negotiated.

They said: "We can offer $1018 + $115 s/h within the contiguous US for the 3.0

CCB-8 satin black speaker package. He said he'd include a test CD with the speakers. That's not a problem."

I saved a whopping $21 (US no less!) Whoo Hoo!

 

[-Jim-]

Hi Gents,

I'm looking for the remote code to operate an Arris Gateway mg5225g with the Remote from my new Denon AVR-X4400H Receiver. The remote accepts 5 digit numerical codes for various manufacturers remote patterns. My Samsung TV and Blu Ray were no problem, but I can't find one that works for the Gateway Box. I tried about a dozen codes for other makes but no joy.

Can you point me in the right direction?

Thanks for the assist.

 

[lovinthehd]

Don't know about the Denon remote, but it's in the Harmony universal remote database....

 

[-Jim-]

Hi Gents,

Sorry for not posting but I've been very busy with work (two trips to HQ in York, PA in 3 weeks, and a trip to the Yukon in the last 6) and family duties. Almost no time for this hobby. But you've got to earn the $ to buy the toys.

I received and connected my new Front Speakers (HSU CCB-8s), I didn't bother with my SPL meter as I was too eager to hear them, but I ran Audyssey in all 8 locations. I had to raise the TV a few inches (and modify the stand) to accommodate the Center as it was 10.5" high, and the old one was only about 6". The Left & Right are just sitting on top of my old speakers which are 25" high; until I get some stands for them. These are not close to the recommended height for the center of the cone which is 7.5" up from the bottom of the CCB-8. (7.5 + 25= 32.5" HSU is looking for 7.5 + 36 = 42.5")

The manual says:

"Positioning the CCB-8s
For smoothest response we recommend placing the CCB-8 such that the
coaxial driver’s distance to the closest surfaces are in 1:2:4 ratio (side wall
Y, floor Z, and back wall X - see Fig. 1). On the recommended 36˝ stand,
that would be 22˝ from the side wall and about 7 ft from the back wall.
That way, the dip caused by the side wall bounce is canceled by the floor
bounce and the dip caused by the floor bounce will be canceled by the
bounce off the back wall. The dip caused by the back wall bounce will be
below the recommended crossover frequency for the CCB-8.

Note that the above recommendation will result in the smoothest response,
but is not mandatory. It’s fine if the WAF factor or other practical reasons
make that impossible. Our speakers are no more sensitive to positioning
than any other speakers. In fact, due to it’s better controlled directivity, it’s
less sensitive than most."

Of course setting them "7 ft from the back wall." would cause a huge WAF issue; and therefore that's a no go zone. If I left them at 25" then according to their ratio (1:2:4 ratio (side wall Y, floor Z, and back wall X). 12.5" : 25" : 50" That's still a bit more than 4 feet out into the room. I think they are less than 2. Once I have them on stands, I'll play around more with positioning.

The 4400H drives them effortlessly. I'll dig out the SPL meter and advise some values. I bought an Atmos BluRay of the Wall (Roger Waters - ex Pink Floyd) which I'm catching in small bits at a time -not the most enjoyable way - but it's the only way these days.

More later then...

 

[-Jim-]

I just want to document the crossover settings after running Audyssey with the CCB-8s. I ran the setup with all phase plugs out.

Speaker Denon Set to Now
Fronts 40 Hz 60 Hz
Center 60 Hz 60 Hz
Surrounds 60 Hz 80 Hz
Atmos Fronts 110 Hz 120 Hz
Atmos Rears 110 Hz 120 Hz

Here's the CCB-8 Specifications

Woofer: Cast frame 8˝ polypropylene cone woofer with treated cloth surround, flat polycotton spider and high temperature 2˝ edge wound copper clad aluminum voice coil.

Tweeter: Concentrically mounted using the woofer pole piece and cone as constant directivity horn. Neodymium magnet, ferrofluid cooled. Aluminum diaphragm.

Crossover: Computer aided time aligned design, final voicing by Dr. Hsu.

Grille: Magnetically attached nicely shaped metal grille. Can be rotated as needed.

Frequency Response: 50 - 20 kHz +/- 2 dB, flattest at 15 degrees off axis (designed for listening at 15 degrees off axis, speaker axes to cross in front of listener)

Sensitivity: 94 dB/1m/2.83V rms, half space
Nominal Impedance: 6 ohms
Minimum Impedance: 4 ohms
Enclosure Type: Vented
Enclosure Material: 3/4˝ MDF
Dimensions: 15˝ H x 10.5˝ W x 12˝ D
Net Weight: 22 lbs
Recommended Amplifier Power: 10 - 400 W rms

I hope to play a bit with the system on the weekend.

 

[PENG]

I just want to document the crossover settings after running Audyssey with the CCB-8s. I ran the setup with all phase plugs out.

Speaker Denon Set to Now
Fronts 40 Hz 60 Hz
Center 60 Hz 60 Hz
Surrounds 60 Hz 80 Hz
Atmos Fronts 110 Hz 120 Hz
Atmos Rears 110 Hz 120 Hz

Here's the CCB-8 Specifications

Woofer: Cast frame 8˝ polypropylene cone woofer with treated cloth surround, flat polycotton spider and high temperature 2˝ edge wound copper clad aluminum voice coil.

Tweeter: Concentrically mounted using the woofer pole piece and cone as constant directivity horn. Neodymium magnet, ferrofluid cooled. Aluminum diaphragm.

Crossover: Computer aided time aligned design, final voicing by Dr. Hsu.

Grille: Magnetically attached nicely shaped metal grille. Can be rotated as needed.

Frequency Response: 50 - 20 kHz +/- 2 dB, flattest at 15 degrees off axis (designed for listening at 15 degrees off axis, speaker axes to cross in front of listener)

Sensitivity: 94 dB/1m/2.83V rms, half space
Nominal Impedance: 6 ohms
Minimum Impedance: 4 ohms
Enclosure Type: Vented
Enclosure Material: 3/4˝ MDF
Dimensions: 15˝ H x 10.5˝ W x 12˝ D
Net Weight: 22 lbs
Recommended Amplifier Power: 10 - 400 W rms

I hope to play a bit with the system on the weekend.

It is highly possible that if you set the fronts to 80 Hz you get flatter bass. That does not necessarily mean stronger bass, but flatter, again, just most likely but not definitely. In my case, 80 Hz also yielded much flatter response than 60 hz and below, in both rooms. Your room may be different. I have REW to show me, in your case you would have to go by ears.

 

[-Jim-]

Thanks Peng. I struggle with time management. Work and other responsibilities tend to pull me away from this for days (even weeks) at a time. As I think I mentioned in another thread, I built a HTPC just for tunes some time ago, and bought a Mic and put REW on it. Again, it was with the best of intentions on becoming competent with REW, but haven't gotten back to it in ages. I'm hoping to take some time off before year end, and then I may have some time to poke around with it.

As for the tweaking, it was just for grins as I easily could have left the CCB-8s as Denon suggested but I thought it odd they were different. I used to have the Surrounds at 80 and I was just tweaking the 4 Atmos speakers on a lark. (No science there at all.)

The Roger Waters disk, The Wall really didn't impress me and the Atmos effect wasn't even noticeable that I remember. I was thinking the CCB-8s were not as outstanding as the reviews had stated. But then I popped in Eric Clapton - Slowhand at 70 and wow, what a difference. I was impressed.

I've never been much of a Roger Waters Fan and always thought The Wall was an overblown single concept he had. However, I'm a huge David Gilmour fan. Even though they were both in Pink Floyd, I think David was much more of the creative force there. I guess I'll lend The Wall to one of my brothers, as he was a big Pink Floyd fan to get another opinion.

I guess this goes to show that one should only evaluate speakers by playing music you are very familiar with, and tend to enjoy. Next I'll give this a try:

 

[PENG]

Again, it was with the best of intentions on becoming competent with REW, but haven't gotten back to it in ages. I'm hoping to take some time off before year end, and then I may have some time to poke around with it.

Whether you can find time, do it and you will see..

Below is a photo showing Audyssey On (Red) vs Audyssey Off (Black). You can see Audyssey did an excellent job flattening the response but took out a lot of bass bumps that many people may prefer, and there hated Audyssey.

Caution: The nice red curve is with XO for the FL and FR set to 80 Hz, if I set it to 60 Hz or leave it at full band as set by Denon, things would get very ugly between 45 Hz and 125 Hz.

 

[highfigh]

Hi Gents,

I'm posting in a separate thread as I don't want to hijack any others. Hopefully folks here can offer some assistance if I'm going off the rails.

My new Denon AVR-X4400H arrived on the weekend, and I finally got time to begin to set it up in the recently renovated Games Room.
View attachment 24918

Above is a close representation (not to scale) of the room but a few minor tweaks have occurred since I put the drawing together. The room has a Lazyboy recliner close to the sweet spot, and the only other things in the room are a couple of dozen cardboard boxes still containing mostly kitchen stuff that has yet to find it's "forever home". The window coverings are "California Shutters", and the floor is a very heavy & wide "tile" strips - like a wide hardwood ( my Misses & her Decorator spec'd it). All I know is the room is very reflective. The TV screen is on the west wall. The jut out on the south wall is a window box and there's a larger window towards the west wall. Above the Sub in the drawing is another window in the corner. I recently added a second Sub, and arbitrarily changed the two Front Speakers to be outboard of the Subs which are now about 20 inches out on either side of the TV. When seated my left ear is pretty much in line with the Left Surround whereas the Right Surround is about 22 inches back (It looks more than that in my drawing because it's not to scale. ) The toe-ins of the speakers are no where as pronounced as drawn.

As you can tell I was eager to replace my Denon AVR-S900W receiver and try Dolby Atmos / DTS-X /Auro 3D.

So in my haste I followed the quick setup guide, as they don't even supply a paper, or even a CD, Manual on a $2,000 receiver (List price -in Canadian dollars)? OMG! I really should have connected it to our network, and updated the firmware first. Anyway I did the easy setup (with all 8 Audyssey Mic positions) in a pristinely quiet room. I wanted to try an immersive codec so I set it up without the two rear surrounds in this configuration. It ran through the setup routinely and I eagerly stuffed the BluRay Concert on the top of the pile.
View attachment 24919

This is an amazing concert for a man who's still on top of his craft at 70. I thoroughly recommend it.

Anyway, I set-up the Samsung BluRay player to Bitstream (DTD- HD Master is the multichannel sound on this disk) so the decoding would be via the 4400. It was impossible to get the two boxes (connected via HDMI) to allow this to occur. At least I couldn't get it to go. It freezes at the Home Menu. So in an effort to get the first tune going I let the Samsung decode and the HDMI handshakes let it all happen. It was then the Light went on about updating the firmware in both units.

See next post...

If something doesn't come with a paper manual or CD, assume they have it available online and THEY ALL DO.

The first things to do with a new AVR are:

#1- Hard reset
#2- Firmware update.

The reason this info isn't mentioned is that, no offense intended, properly setting up a $2200 AVR is beyond the capability and understanding of most people who don't work with this stuff on a regular basis. For that matter, it's beyond many who DO work with it on a regular basis and that, I do mean as a jab.

That said, if you have already jumped through a bunch of hoops with real fire, you can save the configuration, reset & update it and reload.