Dolby TrueHD volume is low in Denon x4400h compared Dolby Digital or Dolby Digital Plus format

[john20182050]

I downloaded some sample video from here But Dolby TrueHD volume is low in Denon x4400h compared Dolby Digital or Dolby Digital Plus format of the same trailers. I could clearly see the difference very well. For example, I when I play Amaze, the sound is very good and loud, but when I play Amaze (Lossless-ATMOS) it's not good and the volume is low (about 20 to 25% volume is less). Why is that? Is it because I don't have atmos speakers?

My 7.1 config is below. I did Audyssey setup, then override front speakers crossover to 90hz and other speakers crossover to 110hz based on others suggestion in audioholics forums.
1. Denon AVR x-4400h
2. Front Speaker - KEF R500
3. Center - KEF R200c
4. Surround sides and backs - JBL 530
5. Subs - Monolith 15" Ultra and VTF-3 MK5 HP

 

[Leemix]

Its probably just mixed low for more dynamic headroom. Just crank it up a bit more to compensate.


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[lovinthehd]

On that Dolby trailer site I see this as a requirement:

To playback the MKV files in Dolby TrueHD you will need a media player such as Media Player Classic Home Cinema (MPC-HC) or a Media Server such as Plex that can output the Lossless stream via HDMI to an AV Receiver that supports Dolby TrueHD. These files have been tested with both MPC-HC and Plex

You have such to start with?

As to different levels, it's possible the mixes are done differently for a different codec. I have a download of Blade Runner 2049 a friend did with just an AC3 (Dolby Digital) soundtrack which is kinda bland....then when I got the actual bluray disc it was a lot "hotter" for the Dolby TrueHD/Atmos mix.

 

[Dmantis10]

I downloaded some sample video from here But Dolby TrueHD volume is low in Denon x4400h compared Dolby Digital or Dolby Digital Plus format of the same trailers. I could clearly see the difference very well. For example, I when I play Amaze, the sound is very good and loud, but when I play Amaze (Lossless-ATMOS) it's not good and the volume is low (about 20 to 25% volume is less). Why is that? Is it because I don't have atmos speakers?

My 7.1 config is below. I did Audyssey setup, then override front speakers crossover to 90hz and other speakers crossover to 110hz based on others suggestion in audioholics forums.
1. Denon AVR x-4400h
2. Front Speaker - KEF R500
3. Center - KEF R200c
4. Surround sides and backs - JBL 530
5. Subs - Monolith 15" Ultra and VTF-3 MK5 HP

I don't see a reason to cross over the front speakers at 90hz, I would however go 80hz or even 60hz if you want to fatten up the front channels for music.
I also don't see any reason to go with a 11 hz crossover point for the side and surround back channels. I would also calibrate them to 80hz.
I find when you send frequencies to the subwoofer above 80hz, it become more direct or you know exactly where the bass is coming from. When it's getting 80hz and down it seems to fill the room with bass instead of calling attention to itself.
Where did Audyssey set them?
Anyway different formats usually have different levels for exactly the reason said above, for more dynamic range or headroom to make soft to loud sounds more dramatic. That usually makes for a much better overall experience then when it's just loud.

 

[lovinthehd]

I don't see a reason to cross over the front speakers at 90hz, I would however go 80hz or even 60hz if you want to fatten up the front channels for music.
I also don't see any reason to go with a 11 hz crossover point for the side and surround back channels. I would also calibrate them to 80hz.
I find when you send frequencies to the subwoofer above 80hz, it become more direct or you know exactly where the bass is coming from. When it's getting 80hz and down it seems to fill the room with bass instead of calling attention to itself.
Where did Audyssey set them?
Anyway different formats usually have different levels for exactly the reason said above, for more dynamic range or headroom to make soft to loud sounds more dramatic. That usually makes for a much better overall experience then when it's just loud.

That somewhat will depend on sub setup, altho more likely with a single sub to have localization issues. I cross all my speakers at 100-110 normally without issue and recently switched to 150 for all and still had no issues...and had forgotten about that setting until I saw your comments Having multiple subs helps.

 

[Dmantis10]

That somewhat will depend on sub setup, altho more likely with a single sub to have localization issues. I cross all my speakers at 100-110 normally without issue and recently switched to 150 for all and still had no issues...and had forgotten about that setting until I saw your comments Having multiple subs helps.

Unless you have speakers that can't reproduce frequencies from 80hz to 110hz I can't see any reason to go that high. I have installed micro speakers like Micro 90's from Boston Acoustics, Mirage OMNI Sat's, Polk RM , Anthony Gallo and B&W leisure Monitors which are all small to very small speakers and never once did I cross over any of them that high due to dynamic range issues or popping due to driving them to hard.
I suggest since you have been running your system at 100-100hz, try going all the way down to 80hz, cross over the LFE channel as well at 80hz or even 120hz for Atmos etc and see how your system performs then.
Let me know what you think either way. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on 110 vs 80hz crossover points for your speakers which are?

 

[PENG]

I don't see a reason to cross over the front speakers at 90hz, I would however go 80hz or even 60hz if you want to fatten up the front channels for music.
I also don't see any reason to go with a 11 hz crossover point for the side and surround back channels. I would also calibrate them to 80hz.
I find when you send frequencies to the subwoofer above 80hz, it become more direct or you know exactly where the bass is coming from. When it's getting 80hz and down it seems to fill the room with bass instead of calling attention to itself.
Where did Audyssey set them?
Anyway different formats usually have different levels for exactly the reason said above, for more dynamic range or headroom to make soft to loud sounds more dramatic. That usually makes for a much better overall experience then when it's just loud.

I agree with HD. It really depends on one's system (types of speakers and subwoofers) and room acoustic conditions. I have tower speakers that have better response than the R500, and 90 Hz appears to be better than 80 Hz, and definitely much better than XO 60 Hz. You can't go by the settings post Audyssey run, in fact more often than not, D&M AVR or AVP would set the LCR speakers to large.

Numerous REW graphs support my findings by ears. Higher XO does mean less chance for the mains to interfere/cancelling or boosting etc., with the subwoofers. XO's are no brick walls either.

 

[Dmantis10]

I agree with HD. It really depends on one's system (types of speakers and subwoofers) and room acoustic conditions. I have tower speakers that have better response than the R500, and 90 Hz appears to be better than 80 Hz, and definitely much better than XO 60 Hz. You can't go by the settings post Audyssey run, in fact more often than not, D&M AVR or AVP would set the LCR speakers to large.

I don't even like Audyssey Calibrations. I usually skip them unless it's a full Pro setup then I'll calibrate and just tweak afterwards.
I'm trying to figure out the 90hz vs 80hz and even upwards of 110 hz settings that people are seeming to think they work better. I just never ran into that in all my years of experience in thousands of theater rooms.
It's something I'm now going to revise due to reading you guys experiences. I want to hear this for myself. Hell I'm even gonna mess around with my system to see if going that high or even just changing from my theater standard of 80hz works better in my room.
I'd like to read more about these experiences vs a standard 80hz crossover setting for replaying movies.

 

[PENG]

I don't even like Audyssey Calibrations. I usually skip them unless it's a full Pro setup then I'll calibrate and just tweak afterwards.
I'm trying to figure out the 90hz vs 80hz and even upwards of 110 hz settings that people are seeming to think they work better. I just never ran into that in all my years of experience in thousands of theater rooms.

Again, I don't just go by subjective hearing/feeling, but plotted frequency and phase response for different XOs.

 

[Dmantis10]

There is no right or wrong way man. If you like it then thats good enough. If you want to use reading scopes and test equipment thats also fine as well but I never seen any model speakers I have ever used needing crossover points set higher then 80hz. I've used tons of different brands in tons of different rooms.

 

[lovinthehd]

Unless you have speakers that can't reproduce frequencies from 80hz to 110hz I can't see any reason to go that high. I have installed micro speakers like Micro 90's from Boston Acoustics, Mirage OMNI Sat's, Polk RM , Anthony Gallo and B&W leisure Monitors which are all small to very small speakers and never once did I cross over any of them that high due to dynamic range issues or popping due to driving them to hard.
I suggest since you have been running your system at 100-100hz, try going all the way down to 80hz, cross over the LFE channel as well at 80hz or even 120hz for Atmos etc and see how your system performs then.
Let me know what you think either way. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on 110 vs 80hz crossover points for your speakers which are?

All those little speakers just don't have sufficient bass for my tastes I suppose is the bottom line. I did originally experiment with 60 and 80 as well. My speakers do okay at 80 to 110 but my subs are better at it. Not sure what you mean by crossing the LFE channel, the only adjustment for the LFE channel is an LPF which I leave at 120 as that is the normal content limit for LFE. Don't have Atmos until someday I want to deal with the ceiling thing....

 

[PENG]

Right or wrong, it depends.. For those who don't want to spend time experimenting, especially if room eq is not used, 80 Hz is probably the best bet for mains that have f3 down to 50 Hz and below.

 

[john20182050]

On that Dolby trailer site I see this as a requirement:

To playback the MKV files in Dolby TrueHD you will need a media player such as Media Player Classic Home Cinema (MPC-HC) or a Media Server such as Plex that can output the Lossless stream via HDMI to an AV Receiver that supports Dolby TrueHD. These files have been tested with both MPC-HC and Plex

You have such to start with?

As to different levels, it's possible the mixes are done differently for a different codec. I have a download of Blade Runner 2049 a friend did with just an AC3 (Dolby Digital) soundtrack which is kinda bland....then when I got the actual bluray disc it was a lot "hotter" for the Dolby TrueHD/Atmos mix.

Yes, I played in Plex app in my Vizio TV. Installed Plex server on my Windows Laptop. Also, I did update the following config in Plex app in TV as bellow

On that Dolby trailer site I see this as a requirement:

To playback the MKV files in Dolby TrueHD you will need a media player such as Media Player Classic Home Cinema (MPC-HC) or a Media Server such as Plex that can output the Lossless stream via HDMI to an AV Receiver that supports Dolby TrueHD. These files have been tested with both MPC-HC and Plex

You have such to start with?

As to different levels, it's possible the mixes are done differently for a different codec. I have a download of Blade Runner 2049 a friend did with just an AC3 (Dolby Digital) soundtrack which is kinda bland....then when I got the actual bluray disc it was a lot "hotter" for the Dolby TrueHD/Atmos mix.

I'm using Plex TV App in 2014 Vizio model with following settings and I run plex server my windows laptop. There is not setting for TrueHD in the TV app, Maybe that's why it's not working?

 

[lovinthehd]

Don't know about Plex, never used it but am sure several around here are familiar with it. What does huge volume boost mean, tho?

 

[john20182050]

I don't see a reason to cross over the front speakers at 90hz, I would however go 80hz or even 60hz if you want to fatten up the front channels for music.

I also don't see any reason to go with a 11 hz crossover point for the side and surround back channels. I would also calibrate them to 80hz.
I find when you send frequencies to the subwoofer above 80hz, it become more direct or you know exactly where the bass is coming from. When it's getting 80hz and down it seems to fill the room with bass instead of calling attention to itself.
Where did Audyssey set them?
Anyway different formats usually have different levels for exactly the reason said above, for more dynamic range or headroom to make soft to loud sounds more dramatic. That usually makes for a much better overall experience then when it's just loud.

Exactly that's the doubt I have for long. If the speaker is good enough to play even 40hz like KEF R500, why not set the crossover to 60hz at least? Otherwise, won't we get directional sound from the sub? Won't it be bad for 2.1 music and even for surround music or movie? But in almost all forum posts, i see many recommend if you have a great sub like monolith ultra 15, set the crossover all speakers to 80hz or more.

 

[john20182050]

Don't know about Plex, never used it but am sure several around here are familiar with it. What does huge volume boost mean, tho?

I think that's extra volume boost or something. It has four options - none, small, large and huge.

 

[lovinthehd]

I think that's extra volume boost or something. It has four options - none, small, large and huge.

I wonder if it simply raises the level by "x" amount of dB evenly, or is it a contour of some sort? Why would you need to boost the volume particularly?

 

[lovinthehd]

Exactly that's the doubt I have for long. If the speaker is good enough to play even 40hz like KEF R500, why not set the crossover to 60hz at least? Otherwise, won't we get directional sound from the sub? Won't it be bad for 2.1 music and even for surround music or movie? But in almost all forum posts, i see many recommend if you have a great sub like monolith ultra 15, set the crossover all speakers to 80hz or more.

Just how good can a speaker with a pair of 5.25" "bass" drivers do with bass, tho?

 

[john20182050]

I wonder if it simply raises the level by "x" amount of dB evenly, or is it a contour of some sort? Why would you need to boost the volume particularly?

I just set to huge. I don't see much difference between huge and none. Not really what is really does.

 

[john20182050]

Just how good can a speaker with a pair of 5.25" "bass" drivers do with bass, tho?

Agree, but only concern is directional base