The SEPARATES vs. AVR Thread

[TechHDS]

Yeah, scratch the a3050, thanks Snakeeyes! Plus I just researched that site HDVISIONMAX is, Fraudulent site. PENG, a3050, would be hard pressed for a replacement, like Snakeeyes, mentioned in his post it is outdated already. Thing is PENG, I may decide to do more than seven channels, it’s one of the reasons of wanting a flagship unit. Going Pre-Pro I would definitely have to buy more amps. Going with the A3080 would be able to let the AVR drive the Front Heights.

Mike

 

[TechHDS]

This debate of "Separates vs AVR" is always difficult, especially when you're the one making the purchase and the price is close.

BTW, that "HD Vision Max" is NOT authorized and they are most likely fraudulent.

Hey, where you been hiding? . Your spot on, I just read a BBB report, it’s Not a legitimate site it’s fraudulent!

Mike

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I may decide to do more than seven channels, it’s one of the reasons of wanting a flagship unit. Going Pre-Pro I would definitely have to buy more amps. Going with the A3080 would be able to let the AVR drive the Front Heights.

Mike

I'm torn between a flagship RX3080 vs a flagship CX5100.

Hmm.

Definitely a First World problem.

 

[PENG]

This debate of "Separates vs AVR" is always difficult, especially when you're the one making the purchase and the price is close.

BTW, that "HD Vision Max" is NOT authorized and they are most likely fraudulent.

I used to be for separates with prepro and power amps. Now I am more for upper mid range AVR plus power amps. By the way, I starting using Eco mode and the 4400 is now several degrees Celsius cooler so it practically works like a prepro mode, a very nice surprise.

 

[TechHDS]

I'm torn between a flagship RX3080 vs a flagship CX5100.

Hmm.

Definitely a First World problem.

Man, I gotta go get a Camel smoke and have a cup of Joe now.. I even been having sleepless nights over this decision I got a make!.

Mike

 

[TechHDS]

I used to be for separates with prepro and power amps. Now I am more for upper mid range AVR plus power amps. By the way, I starting using Eco mode and the 4400 is now several degrees Celsius cooler so it practically works like a prepro mode, a very nice surprise.

PENG, I can see that, manufacturers do start putting “flagship” build in the upper Mid units.

Mike

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Man, I gotta go get a Camel smoke and have a cup of Joe now.. I even been having sleepless nights over this decision I got a make!.

Mike

3rd world problem: Man, I'm having sleepless nights deciding if I want to be able to eat foods to stay alive or keep my kids.

1st world problem: Man, I'm having sleepless nights deciding if I want to buy a $2,200 AVR or a $3,000 Pre-pro.

 

[PENG]

PENG, I can see that, manufacturers do start putting “flagship” build in the upper Mid units.

Mike

I hope they all do but I am not sure. Iam thinking of starting a thread on comparing mid range Yamaha, D&M, and a few other brands.

 

[PENG]

3rd world problem: Man, I'm having sleepless nights deciding if I want to be able to eat foods to stay alive or keep my kids.

1st world problem: Man, I'm having sleepless nights deciding if I want to buy a $2,200 AVR or a $3,000 Pre-pro.

If you can think like a computer, it would be easier. Just list the top 5 reasons why you should go with the prepro, then do the same for the AVR.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If you can think like a computer, it would be easier. Just list the top 5 reasons why you should go with the prepro, then do the same for the AVR.

Is "overall cost" the salient reason for buying AVR?

Cost of both the Pre-Pro + external Amps?

What's the true honest salient reason for buying a Pre-pro?

1. Not having 9-13 Ch of amps inside the chassis = simpler, cooler, more reliable?
2. Flagship Pre-pros have much better built quality?
3. I'm an audiophile, darn it, I can't be seen with an AVR in my main system!
4. Again, I'm an audiophile, darn it, and Pre-pros sound better than AVR regardless of measurements!

 

[TechHDS]

Like one of “Gene’s” sayings, somewhere there most always a “compromise“. Whether it’s speaker build or gear with manufacturers. ADTG, “first world problem“. Well said man! . Been dealing with them 3 lil words my whole life with this hobby!! From two channel stereo receivers in the beginning of my Journey! Than on to separates in the 90s, now I’m right back to where I was in the 90’s. One thing for sure, it’s a great time to be in this hobby! Back in the day I would have never thought what a two channel receiver would turn into. I can say this, I would have been divorced back in the 80’s if we had what we have now with AVR’s and Pre-Pro’s, today I can spend my money like I want to now. . You guys are great with the input and your thoughts! I don’t travel, did that flying all over the Gulf of Mexico for 15 years. Don’t fish, lived way to many years on the water so fishing isn’t my idea of fun. So it is those very reasons and more I’m happy with this hobby. Now back to my Camel smoke and coffee.

Mike

 

[PENG]

Is "overall cost" the salient reason for buying AVR?

Cost of both the Pre-Pro + external Amps?

Excellent question !

For me it is either:

Prepro +11 channels of power amp(s) to AVR + 3 or 5 channels of power amp(s)

Or

Same as above but compare to an AVR only for those who do not need to add external amp(s).

 

[Bookmark]

If you are running the power amp for the main channels anyway, then it does not really matter if it's a Processor or an AVR.

If you want/are using XLR then 5100, if not then 2080 or 3080 or switch to Denon like Peng and get 4400H or Marantz 7012/6012. Those will all do HDR,Dolby Vison, HLG. They all have 11 channel processing, eARC and they are all the older models, likely under $1K and probably won't get the Dolby restrictions change. The Yamaha Axx80 do have the restriction, however it does not appear to be too onerous.

The only thing to watch out for would be whether you could assign the amp to the main five and use the rest internally. I know the top Denon/Marantz are more flexible on the channel assigns than the mid tier ones.

 

[snakeeyes]

If you are running the power amp for the main channels anyway, then it does not really matter if it's a Processor or an AVR.

If you want/are using XLR then 5100, if not then 2080 or 3080 or switch to Denon like Peng and get 4400H or Marantz 7012/6012. Those will all do HDR,Dolby Vison, HLG. They all have 11 channel processing, eARC and they are all the older models, likely under $1K and probably won't get the Dolby restrictions change. The Yamaha Axx80 do have the restriction, however it does not appear to be too onerous.

The only thing to watch out for would be whether you could assign the amp to the main five and use the rest internally. I know the top Denon/Marantz are more flexible on the channel assigns than the mid tier ones.

That restriction won’t matter much as DSU is a good upmixer as far as I know for object based format matrixing. (No first hand experience for me yet, but plan to go 5.1.4 eventually)

 

[Bookmark]

I have noticed a few changes since adding the heights on Atmos and Dts:X discs (previously listened on a Straight setting 7.1) but I don't know if there has been any notable differences with just normal Dolby or Dts tracks and DSU. You do need to use the DSU/Neural X to make use of the extra speakers. The change as implemented on the Yamaha Axx80 models appears to allow for an Auto setting presumably using DSU for Dolby and Dts Neural X for theirs. If you use Dts with DSU or Dolby with Neural X then it seems to only get 5.1 or 7.1.

 

[snakeeyes]

I have noticed a few changes since adding the heights on Atmos and Dts:X discs (previously listened on a Straight setting 7.1) but I don't know if there has been any notable differences with just normal Dolby or Dts tracks and DSU. You do need to use the DSU/Neural X to make use of the extra speakers. The change as implemented on the Yamaha Axx80 models appears to allow for an Auto setting presumably using DSU for Dolby and Dts Neural X for theirs. If you use Dts with DSU or Dolby with Neural X then it seems to only get 5.1 or 7.1.

So if you prefer Dolby DSU, you can’t use it on DTSHDMA? Or all flavors DTS? And what about PCM?

 

[Bookmark]

Currently the only AVRs affected by the Dolby License change so far has been the new Yamaha models. Older models can still upmix both Dts and Dolby with DSU and vice versa. PCM will be unaffected by the change regardless.

I prefer the DSU over the Dts Neural X but it is not a night and day difference, both do a fine job, it is much more down to the discs and how they are mixed. Atmos/Dts:X discs should not need to use the upmixers anyway and again some disc make better use than others. Think summer blockbusters if you want the most noticeable differences. Remember the objects don't just use the height/overhead speakers they also make more use of the base layers. I have noticed more sort of intermediate events between the fronts and surrounds since the change.

I'm hoping to try for 4 by the end of the week

 

[snakeeyes]

Currently the only AVRs affected by the Dolby License change so far has been the new Yamaha models. Older models can still upmix both Dts and Dolby with DSU and vice versa. PCM will be unaffected by the change regardless.

I prefer the DSU over the Dts Neural X but it is not a night and day difference, both do a fine job, it is much more down to the discs and how they are mixed. Atmos/Dts:X discs should not need to use the upmixers anyway and again some disc make better use than others. Think summer blockbusters if you want the most noticeable differences. Remember the objects don't just use the height/overhead speakers they also make more use of the base layers. I have noticed more sort of intermediate events between the fronts and surrounds since the change.

I'm hoping to try for 4 by the end of the week

Sounds like dts upmixer is almost as good so probably no big deal.

 

[Bookmark]

Oh indeed.

I am re-watching all the discs I have with Atmos and Dts:X again... So far standout Atmos have been the Ready Player One, The Great Wall and Rampage For Dts:X Fast and Furious 8 and Crimson Peak is turning out nice too.

There are currently a lot more Atmos than Dts :X and the number in the UK is probably less than else where. Some should be, but these are either just the True HD or Dts MA variants. This of course it is only for Blu-rays. I think most of the UHD discs have one or other but I don't have any of those currently.

Depending upon what you plan for either the Heights, Overheads or the Atmos Bounce you may notice the effects to be more or less effective. I have gone with Heights out necessity so some things I don't think improve over previous the 7.1 might be down to this and Overhead might work better.

Good Dts MA and True HD still sound good whether the upmixer is bringing anything noticeable to the table or not.

 

[TechHDS]

Oh indeed.

I am re-watching all the discs I have with Atmos and Dts:X again... So far standout Atmos have been the Ready Player One, The Great Wall and Rampage For Dts:X Fast and Furious 8 and Crimson Peak is turning out nice too.

There are currently a lot more Atmos than Dts :X and the number in the UK is probably less than else where. Some should be, but these are either just the True HD or Dts MA variants. This of course it is only for Blu-rays. I think most of the UHD discs have one or other but I don't have any of those currently.

Depending upon what you plan for either the Heights, Overheads or the Atmos Bounce you may notice the effects to be more or less effective. I have gone with Heights out necessity so some things I don't think improve over previous the 7.1 might be down to this and Overhead might work better.

Good Dts MA and True HD still sound good whether the upmixer is bringing anything noticeable to the table or not.

So in your opinion 7.1 is the better of the 3? My Son runs 7.2 with rear Heights. He has tried front heights for DTS-X . In his opinion TrueHD is the better.

Mike