KEF LS50 tops all of them

[ematthews]

I have a sense of that, but would want to do some specific comparisons before making formal statements.
Generally speaking, they are probably the most neutral speakers I have heard.
They are probably the most full range bookshelf speakers I have heard.
I say "probably" because I have not directly compared them to my other bookshelf speakers.
The incredible dispersion is the hallmark of their character.
But I will see if I can do a comparison a week (will start another thread).

What is the power handling on the BMR's? I would guess that they can handle a lot of power and wouldn't start to break up at higher volumes like the LS50.

 

[KEW]

What is the power handling on the BMR's? I would guess that they can handle a lot of power and wouldn't start to break up at higher volumes like the LS50.

I really can't begin to answer that. I am not someone who runs speakers at reference levels.
I'm sure you are right in that the LS50 is trying to cover a lot of ground with its two drivers while the mid in the BMR allows the woofer to be selected for a lower range, and frees the tweeter from the low-end of it's range.
I wish I still had a LS50 in house to compare to the BMR directly.
Do you think the LS50 breaks up because the small woofer is being pressed into low frequencies at volume?
Do you have a sub and cross around 100Hz?
Seems like that would help a lot!

 

[KEW]

What is the power handling on the BMR's? I would guess that they can handle a lot of power and wouldn't start to break up at higher volumes like the LS50.

@Dennis Murphy , can you respond to this?

 

[Dennis Murphy]

About all I can say is that the BMR's have considerably more power handling than the LS50's. There really isn't any standardized, meaningful way to rate power handling.

 

[ematthews]

About all I can say is that the BMR's have considerably more power handling than the LS50's. There really isn't any standardized, meaningful way to rate power handling.

Thanks Dennis. I guess I asked since I see most big brands stating power amplifier watt ratings on speakers like the LS50 AT 100.

 

[PENG]

You can reference the driver's specs that should give you some ideas.

Woofer:
Power Handling 100h RMS noise test (IEC 17.1) 100 W Long-term max power (IEC 17.3) 120 W

BMR mid range driver:

RAAL tweeter:
I don't have power specs for the tweeter, maybe Dennis has?

The Crossover would of course absorb some of the power (loss).

 

[Dennis Murphy]

You can reference the driver's specs that should give you some ideas.

Woofer:
Power Handling 100h RMS noise test (IEC 17.1) 100 W Long-term max power (IEC 17.3) 120 W

BMR mid range driver:

View attachment 25456

RAAL tweeter:
I don't have power specs for the tweeter, maybe Dennis has?

The Crossover would of course absorb some of the power (loss).

The factory specs are hard to interpret. For example, I'm sure that BMR driver rating is for full-range application, whereas both ends of the response are steeply rolled off on the BMR in my speakers.

 

[Beave]

Power handling can't be described by a single number for a speaker, or even for a driver within a speaker, because it has frequency and duration components.

As Dennis points out, that BMR driver can probably handle well over 20 Watts in the range in which its used in the BMR Philharmonitor. But at, say, 50 Hz, I doubt it can handle even the 20 Watts listed.

And then there's the issue of time. How long is the power sent to the driver? Milliseconds? Seconds? Minutes? A driver might handle a signal for a brief instant with no repercussions, but play that signal for several seconds and the heat build up might fry the driver.

 

[PENG]

Power handling can't be described by a single number for a speaker, or even for a driver within a speaker, because it has frequency and duration components.

As Dennis points out, that BMR driver can probably handle well over 20 Watts in the range in which its used in the BMR Philharmonitor. But at, say, 50 Hz, I doubt it can handle even the 20 Watts listed.

And then there's the issue of time. How long is the power sent to the driver? Milliseconds? Seconds? Minutes? A driver might handle a signal for a brief instant with no repercussions, but play that signal for several seconds and the heat build up might fry the driver.

I meant the driver's specs would give us an idea, that's all, assuming they are used with competently designed crossover and enclosure. That 20 watt spec was based on using the specified noise with a 150 Hz HPF, so you are right, no 50 Hz..

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I meant the driver's specs would give us an idea, that's all, assuming they are used with competently designed crossover and enclosure.

I have no idea what the underlying assumptions are. I think it comes down more to the excursion limits of the woofer.

 

[PENG]

I have no idea what the underlying assumptions are. I think it comes down more to the excursion limits of the woofer.

For that BMR driver, aside from what they stated in the table, such as the specified IEC-268-5 noise signal, with a 150 Hz high pass filter, I am just guessing that the manufacturers would have assumed their products are used with properly designed crossovers and enclosure so that the audio signal will be within their specified frequency range, and used in room temperature. I am sure you designed the XO point for that driver well above 150 Hz.

 

[little wing]

Hey.... Aren't we raised to find the faults in everything...

In all honesty... I was given advise more than one time about trying to achieve results out of just a tower alone in my room. I'm stubborn.. I went back and read some post from the last year and read that many forum members here and elsewhere said you will achieve a much better result when you use a sub/speaker combo VS a stand alone tower. Live and learn the hardway..
So I was able to get my desired sound from the Kef LS50/SVS sub combo. My only trouble. I think I can do better if I could blend the sub a little more. I also noticed after using an SPL meter this week end that anything higher than 88db, the LS50 seem to struggle a touch. I trimmed them at 80hz as well..

I hear you. I noticed a pretty big difference when I added a sub to my towers. It added more weight to the lower end for sure. I know there is far better and more costly stuff out there. But when I sit down to listen to music, I ask myself two questions: Does the music sound good, and do I still enjoy listening to my system, and the answer to both questions is yes. Because, I'm a music lover first and for most. And I'm too lazy to keep switching out gear....it's PIA

I hope you ultimately find what you're looking for.

 

[Bucknekked]

It's called never being satisfied. I get tired of myself...

never being satisfied seems to be a common theme on the forum. Its a condition that I no longer suffer from and that completely changes how you look at and participate in this forum. When I bought the Salks about 18 months ago, and then upgraded the Denon to a model to get current and carry that new load, I hit a home run in the satisfaction department. From the source, all digital, lossless and uncompressed files to the Salks singing the actual music, my system makes me happy all the way to the bone.

That satisfied and happy condition may change as the future rolls around. But for now, I aint chasing any rainbows. I got the pot of gold and the magical sound as well. It completely changes how you look at this forum.

 

[KenM10759]

never being satisfied seems to be a common theme on the forum. Its a condition that I no longer suffer from and that completely changes how you look at and participate in this forum. When I bought the Salks about 18 months ago, and then upgraded the Denon to a model to get current and carry that new load, I hit a home run in the satisfaction department. From the source, all digital, lossless and uncompressed files to the Salks singing the actual music, my system makes me happy all the way to the bone.

That satisfied and happy condition may change as the future rolls around. But for now, I aint chasing any rainbows. I got the pot of gold and the magical sound as well. It completely changes how you look at this forum.

I'm forgetting which Salk speakers you got and what you upgraded to in the electronics feeding them. Can you elaborate?

 

[Bucknekked]

I'm forgetting which Salk speakers you got and what you upgraded to in the electronics feeding them. Can you elaborate?

Ken
I upgraded from Klipsch bookshelves + a sub to the Salk Songtowers in curly cherry. Same as @Swerd 's original pair. ( I get the finish between curly maple and curly cherry confused all the time). After having them installed for a couple of months, I decided to throw in the 10" Monolith subwoofer (the THX certified one) not because it needed it, but because I can. Before the speakers showed up, and because the Songtowers tend to provide a load that is closer to 4 ohms than 8 ohms, I decided that was a good enough excuse to upgrade my older Denon 910 to a new Denon x4200W. The support for the 4 to 6 ohm load was as good an excuse as I needed. The extra power, and there is lots of power for a 2.1 system, is just a cherry on the top.

While I was waiting for the speakers to show up (and the wait was a tough one) I re-ripped all my music and re-organized my library from top to bottom. Lossless and uncompressed. I also added in a UTurn turntable just because I can for my scant record collection. My record collection has grown since then since my family now likes to give me LP's for gifts instead of neckties. A bonus.

One of the things that can get rid of the constant nagging need to chase an upgrade is to make darn sure what you're buying is a true upgrade: an audible step up. Not a paper step up based on statistics and somebodies technical opinion on "better". But, an audible steup up you can truly hear and recognize the difference. I decided I wanted to really "step up" when I went for the Songtowers. The Salk fanboys aint lying : these things sound fantastic. If I upgrade again, I'll go with Dennis Murphys AA stuff and probably go for his Philharmonic 3's. I would go for the Salk Soundscape 8's, but I'll never be able to afford those. Either way, I get Jim Salks cabinets.

Jim Salks cabinet work is a whole other topic. I appreciate those every time I walk up to my system. Its hard to overstate how gorgeous a piece of work he provides. A true upgrade.

 

[snakeeyes]

Ken
I upgraded from Klipsch bookshelves + a sub to the Salk Songtowers in curly cherry. Same as @Swerd 's original pair. ( I get the finish between curly maple and curly cherry confused all the time). After having them installed for a couple of months, I decided to throw in the 10" Monolith subwoofer (the THX certified one) not because it needed it, but because I can. Before the speakers showed up, and because the Songtowers tend to provide a load that is closer to 4 ohms than 8 ohms, I decided that was a good enough excuse to upgrade my older Denon 910 to a new Denon x4200W. The support for the 4 to 6 ohm load was as good an excuse as I needed. The extra power, and there is lots of power for a 2.1 system, is just a cherry on the top.

While I was waiting for the speakers to show up (and the wait was a tough one) I re-ripped all my music and re-organized my library from top to bottom. Lossless and uncompressed. I also added in a UTurn turntable just because I can for my scant record collection. My record collection has grown since then since my family now likes to give me LP's for gifts instead of neckties. A bonus.

One of the things that can get rid of the constant nagging need to chase an upgrade is to make darn sure what you're buying is a true upgrade: an audible step up. Not a paper step up based on statistics and somebodies technical opinion on "better". But, an audible steup up you can truly hear and recognize the difference. I decided I wanted to really "step up" when I went for the Songtowers. The Salk fanboys aint lying : these things sound fantastic. If I upgrade again, I'll go with Dennis Murphys AA stuff and probably go for his Philharmonic 3's. I would go for the Salk Soundscape 8's, but I'll never be able to afford those. Either way, I get Jim Salks cabinets.

Jim Salks cabinet work is a whole other topic. I appreciate those every time I walk up to my system. Its hard to overstate how gorgeous a piece of work he provides. A true upgrade.

How do you like the Monolith 10 sub?

 

[little wing]

Ken
I upgraded from Klipsch bookshelves + a sub to the Salk Songtowers in curly cherry. Same as @Swerd 's original pair. ( I get the finish between curly maple and curly cherry confused all the time). After having them installed for a couple of months, I decided to throw in the 10" Monolith subwoofer (the THX certified one) not because it needed it, but because I can. Before the speakers showed up, and because the Songtowers tend to provide a load that is closer to 4 ohms than 8 ohms, I decided that was a good enough excuse to upgrade my older Denon 910 to a new Denon x4200W. The support for the 4 to 6 ohm load was as good an excuse as I needed. The extra power, and there is lots of power for a 2.1 system, is just a cherry on the top.

While I was waiting for the speakers to show up (and the wait was a tough one) I re-ripped all my music and re-organized my library from top to bottom. Lossless and uncompressed. I also added in a UTurn turntable just because I can for my scant record collection. My record collection has grown since then since my family now likes to give me LP's for gifts instead of neckties. A bonus.

One of the things that can get rid of the constant nagging need to chase an upgrade is to make darn sure what you're buying is a true upgrade: an audible step up. Not a paper step up based on statistics and somebodies technical opinion on "better". But, an audible steup up you can truly hear and recognize the difference. I decided I wanted to really "step up" when I went for the Songtowers. The Salk fanboys aint lying : these things sound fantastic. If I upgrade again, I'll go with Dennis Murphys AA stuff and probably go for his Philharmonic 3's. I would go for the Salk Soundscape 8's, but I'll never be able to afford those. Either way, I get Jim Salks cabinets.

Jim Salks cabinet work is a whole other topic. I appreciate those every time I walk up to my system. Its hard to overstate how gorgeous a piece of work he provides. A true upgrade.

Very nice system indeed. I demoed a pair of Salk Song towers a few years ago and I came away thinking I could be very happy with those.

 

[Bucknekked]

How do you like the Monolith 10 sub?

snakeyes
The short version of the answer: I love that thing. Completely disses the replaced Klipsch 10" sub.

The longer version of the answer is along the lines of making sure an upgrade is an audible upgrade and not a paper tiger. I had a free money back return period, so even though I couldn't listen in advance (they were brand new at the time and you couldn't find them anywhere) I was willing to take the chance. For me, the Monolith kicked the Klipsch sub to the curb in the first 10 minutes.

I believe @shadyJ was working on an evaluation of the subs at the time and though he didn't spill any beans on the details, he did nod his head approvingly when I said I was going to jump on them the day they became available. The Monolith sub is built like a tank, looks fantastic, and it does what the best subs should do. It delivers the lower register under control and disappears in the room completely.

My other choices at the time were the Hsu and the SVS subs. I'm sure they would have been fantastic as well. Those of you who chose them chose well I'm sure. I simply had an itch to try out the Monolith and they were a homerun right along with the Songtowers.

 

[KenM10759]

That's quite a change! Many people who like the "consumer level" Klipsch seem to get attached to that sharp tweeter and something with a very smooth, deadnuts accurate tweeter such as what Jim Salk and Dennis Murphy use just takes a while to understand.

 

[Bucknekked]

@KenM10759
You gave me a "dislike" rating on my post . ??? What did I say?