KEF LS50 tops all of them

[ematthews]

Yep! My beloved LS50's!

Have you had a chance to listen to the LS50W version? Everything says their even better.

 

[killdozzer]

No, unfortunatelly not. When I was buying mine, wireless wasn't available. And now I don't frequent the stores that much anymore. As I always said; I'm not a ture gear-head or audiophile, I was just looking for some great speakers and since I believe I found them, I stopped looking.

Anyway, I don't really like wireless.

I will test a sub or two, although whoever hears my system says it is crazy to go after more low freq. I have to see for myself. (hear, that is)

There is this song that makes the membrane dance like crazy, but no sound is heard. That's what's buggin' me.

 

[TLS Guy]

If you scan through data bass, you will find several subs which produce good clean sound up to 250-300Hz. You can use dual subs in stereo and locate them close to the speakers, so the location of the subs does not contradict the mains.
I would think this higher roll-off point would emulate the sound of a full-range tower, if you are feeling the bass in the 100-200Hz range is left weak when using bookshelf speakers with a sub crossed at 80Hz.

You are forgetting one important issue. That is baffle step compensation. For a bookshelf that is going to start 600 Hz or a bit above. So at 200 to 300 Hz you are right in that crucial band. The ear is much less sensitive to discontinuities below 80 Hz. Above 80 Hz it is highly sensitive, and here minor aberrations will upset the tonality of a piano, cello, double bases bassoons and a host of instruments. In this area there is no room for anything amiss.

This is the main reason behind having my dual lines. The large lines can be considered as a highly sophisticated sub to the shorter lines. It is triamped and the upper driver in the long line does the BSC duty as well as below 60 Hz. The lower driver is 60 Hz only. The BSC is highly controllable and can be precisely set. Apart from the speakers being TL, this design feature truly sets them apart from other designs. Actually is a demonstration of the benefit of a highly integrated design. Actually I do believe state of the art speakers should have active crossovers and be sold with their dedicated and designed subs.

Funnily enough Peter Walker say this problem years ago and raised the issue. The Gradient subs were specifically designed to mate with the ESL 67 and ONLY the ESL 67.

 

[PENG]

Right now, the KEF R300's are a little more affordable than the BMR's.

I am quite sure the BMR has much better and more expensive components, and much better bass response. It is also almost as heavy as the reference 1 but I realize we shouldn't go by $/lb.

 

[PENG]

Hmm let me know your thoughts on the Kef R series if you give them a demo. I keep coming back to Kef in my search because of the concentric design for the center channel but I’m looking for 5.2.4, not 2.0

I think Peng has R900 with no subs in 2.0

That is correct, the sub is for the LS50 only. The R900 has too much bass in that room without the sub.

 

[speakerman39]

I am quite sure the BMR has much better and more expensive components, and much better bass response. It is also almost as heavy as the reference 1 but I realize we shouldn't go by $/lb.

Oh I very much agree here. But, right now the R300 B-stocks for $1100 a set is really a good deal. There is no doubt where the BMR's stand. However, they are also a bit more expensive coming in at $1450 a set. Of course, there is not going to be much out there that will best them even under $3K! Which makes them a tremendous bargain. In the end, however, I only have so much money to work with. Right now, I am not buying anything. As such, it may be that way for a while.


Cheers,

Phil

 

[ematthews]

That is correct, the sub is for the LS50 only. The R900 has too much bass in that room without the sub.

View attachment 25369

Sounds like the R700 would be just right...

 

[PENG]

Sounds like the R700 would be just right...

I don't know, I have never auditioned the R700 but I can tell you the R500 sounded just as good to me, except it will need a sub too unless in a small room. The R900's FR is 40-28,000 Hz +/- 3 dB but in my room it goes deeper. Overall, it sounds on the so called "warm" side, so I actually prefer the LS50, not always, but sometimes...

 

[ematthews]

I don't know, I have never auditioned the R700 but I can tell you the R500 sounded just as good to me, except it will need a sub too unless in a small room. The R900's FR is 40-28,000 Hz +/- 3 dB but in my room it goes deeper. Overall, it sounds on the so called "warm" side, so I actually prefer the LS50, not always, but sometimes...

Thanks for the feedback. I absolutely love the LS50.. An LS50 tower would be the end game for me in a tower. That way I could use it in full range with my Marantz gear with no sub.

 

[PENG]

LS50 Vs R900, no sub, no EQ no nothing..

 

[ematthews]

So. Excuse my ignorance with graphs as I understand only a bit of it. Does one color represent the LS 50.. Maybe Red and one color the R700.. Black?

 

[PENG]

So. Excuse my ignorance with graphs as I understand only a bit of it. Does one color represent the LS 50.. Maybe Red and one color the R700.. Black?

Yes, but red is for the R900 (I don't have the R700),you can see it's response from 20-100 Hz is much better than the LS50's, as it should.

 

[snakeeyes]

Yes, but red is for the R900 (I don't have the R700),you can see it's response from 20-100 Hz is much better than the LS50's, as it should.

What size of room?

 

[ematthews]

The upper end of the graph is very close. I can assume the R700 would sound really close to the LS50's top end.

 

[KEW]

The upper end of the graph is very close. I can assume the R700 would sound really close to the LS50's top end.

The thing that catches my eye is the R900 has a slow but steady decline in SPL as the frequency increases while the LS50 seems fairly flat in comparison.
When an instrument like a trumpet is played, those low-mid frequencies blend with the overtones/harmonics of the trumpet to define the sound & presence of the trumpet. I would therefore expect the R900 to sound a touch more veiled or laid-back as opposed to the LS50.

 

[ichigo]

Sounds like you like concentric designs OP. I suspect it has to do with the wide dispersion and point source design. Something like a KEF Reference 1 might be your end game--a used pair is well within the price range of some of the other speakers you tested.

And one day...if you are still feeling that itch...perhaps you will will hear to TAD ME-1

 

[ematthews]

Sounds like you like concentric designs OP. I suspect it has to do with the wide dispersion and point source design. Something like a KEF Reference 1 might be your end game--a used pair is well within the price range of some of the other speakers you tested.

And one day...if you are still feeling that itch...perhaps you will will hear to TAD ME-1

Yeah. Sounds like it. I have the Q100's in my garage with a Polk sub. Sounds good in there but it's back ground music when I'm in there working.

 

[killdozzer]

I'll try to demonstrate my biggest worry with the LS50's and the reason I'm in for a sub (or two). At the beginning of this song there is a freq that shakes the membrane like crazy but I hear nothing. I'm guessing it's just too low:

It's not about this song in particular, but I saw something is lost and I guess it must be true for many other songs. If anyone's up for it, give it a listen and watch the speaker's membrane.

 

[tyhjaarpa]

The R300's are a 3-way design. Have seen them @Acc4Less for $1100 a set! KEFDirect has them brand new for $1300. Can't even imagine how well the Reference Ones would sound. Sure would love to find out.

Cheers,

Phil

I have heard Reference 3 or 5, cant recall which model it was and I must say I was little disappointed on them as I was expecting big improvement over R500. It could be the space they were setup but to me they were not even close the improvement I would expect for the price difference, so to me R500 offers a lot better value. Yes, I would love to have reference speakers on my room, but there is no way I would pay so much for them when I think what I already have on R500.

 

[speakerman39]

I have heard Reference 3 or 5, cant recall which model it was and I must say I was little disappointed on them as I was expecting big improvement over R500. It could be the space they were setup but to me they were not even close the improvement I would expect for the price difference, so to me R500 offers a lot better value. Yes, I would love to have reference speakers on my room, but there is no way I would pay so much for them when I think what I already have on R500.

Honestly, I have never heard any of the KEF speakers. However, I have scoured as many forums that I can to ascertain as much info regarding them. My interests are ONLY with the bookshelf speakers and not towers. Here is what I have garnered from various forums:

1.The Q100's at the current price of ~$230-$250 a set is a great bargain. They are often described as being a bit on the bright side of scale, but very detailed. Likewise, the Q300's have a bigger cabinet/driver and as such offers more low end extension.

2. The Q150's/350's are said to be more "laid-back" when compared to the Q100's/300's. In fact, many feel that the Q150's are very close to the R100's. Again, w/the Q350's having more low end extension due to both the larger cabinet and/or driver.

3. There is a lot of conversation regarding the LS50's. Many claim that the LS50's can at times be a slight bit bright, but still remains extremely smooth and extended. Most seem to mention just how well the cabinet is made as it is a step above in that regard. The low end is a mixed bag in that some are happy w/it whereas most prefer to use a sub.

4. The R300's are a 3-way design and are said to be very laid-back and buttery smooth on the top end. The cabinets are large and heavy and do require good stands. Given that the R300's can be had now for ~$1100 a set albeit B-stocks (@Acc4Less) makes them much more attractive to many.

Now that the BMR's can be had for $1450 a set w/the PE cabinets makes me want them even more. However, due to budget constraints I may have to opt for something a little more affordable. That is why KEF is, and has been, on my radar for a good while now. Just not able to spend any money right now. Not complaining about the price of the BMR's as they are a tremendous bargain. Nothing is doing to best them under $3K that I am aware of. Moreover, we are lucky that Dennis is here to share his passion and not make a fortune doing so.

In closing, KEF is a serious contender in my book and for my needs. But, I am also looking very closely at Dyn Audio albeit the Emit M10's/M20's to be exact. Have also seen the Wharfedale Reva 2's for only $550 shipped brand new! Given as much as I loved both my Diamond 220's/Dentons, the Reva 2's are so very tempting. Would prefer to just opt for the BMR's, but it may be a good while before I can do anything. Thanks for the info!


Cheers,

Phil