The SEPARATES vs. AVR Thread

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Okay then I'll post "just" my impressions here and if I am going to do a full review/comparison c/w REW graphs etc., then I'll do it on a new thread.

The Yamaha has impressive specs, but it won't be my choice regardless only because I want Audyssey, can't afford Dirac Live and for HT I think Audyssey is good enough, plus it is easier to set up, should be even easier with the App. Obviously that doesn't apply to you because you only use DEQ, the Yamaha has something similar so you will be happy.

Yep, I don't care for any room correction software - just care about DEQ. So if the Yamaha truly has something exactly like DEQ, then I will be happy.

I think the Yamaha equivalent to DEQ is "YPAO Volume", which is supposed to boost the bass and treble. Anthem ARC's equivalent is "Dolby Leveler".

I think Yamaha's ADRC is equivalent to Audyssey Dynamic Volume, so I will definitely turn ADRC to Off and YPAO Volume to On. Anthem ARC's equivalent is "Dolby Volume".

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

Speaking of the Benchmark AHB2 power amplifier, it was reviewed by a very well known audiophile magazine in 2016.

An interesting quote:
"I know this is not the sort of thing we’re supposed to say about products, but it has been evident for a very long time now that solid-state electronics, particularly line-stage pre-amplifiers and power amplifiers, have reached a point where they are effectively a solved problem such that it is exceeding difficult to tell one from another even in the most exacting A/B comparisons. Ferreting out differences typically involves zeroing in on a very specific and limited characteristic or set of characteristics with such concentration as to leave one tired, uncertain, or both: in other words, an activity that is the very antithesis of what is involved in listening seriously, even critically—to say nothing of pleasurably—to music."

Well, what do you know.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Speaking of the Benchmark AHB2 power amplifier, it was reviewed by a very well known audiophile magazine in 2016.

An interesting quote:
"I know this is not the sort of thing we’re supposed to say about products, but it has been evident for a very long time now that solid-state electronics, particularly line-stage pre-amplifiers and power amplifiers, have reached a point where they are effectively a solved problem such that it is exceeding difficult to tell one from another even in the most exacting A/B comparisons. Ferreting out differences typically involves zeroing in on a very specific and limited characteristic or set of characteristics with such concentration as to leave one tired, uncertain, or both: in other words, an activity that is the very antithesis of what is involved in listening seriously, even critically—to say nothing of pleasurably—to music."

Well, what do you know.

The audiophile who wrote that seems pretty wise.

These days the only thing that sets any of these electronics apart is the EQ. Beyond that, guys are just chasing the numbers game to see which electronics have the highest inaudible SNR, Crosstalk, and lowest inaudible THD.

I believe the 100WPC Benchmark amp has the highest inaudible SNR. I might even care a little bit if it were a 200WPC amp.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

The audiophile who wrote that seems pretty wise.

These days the only thing that sets any of these electronics apart is the EQ. Beyond that, guys are just chasing the numbers game to see which electronics have the highest inaudible SNR, Crosstalk, and lowest inaudible THD.

I believe the 100WPC Benchmark amp has the highest inaudible SNR. I might even care a little bit if it were a 200WPC amp.

I will say that it does look like a well-built power amplifier that should give years of reliable service. But regarding SNR, my old Classé power amp from 20 years ago was rated at 135 db as well.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I will say that it does look like a well-built power amplifier that should give years of reliable service. But regarding SNR, my old Classé power amp from 20 years ago was rated at 135 db as well.

I'm not so sure if the Benchmark amp will last any longer than these Pro amps from QSC, Crown, and Yamaha.

Did your Classe amp produce any hissing sound from the speakers? When I auditioned the B&W 800D at the dealer, the Classe amp was causing a lot of hissing sound that I could hear clearly from 2 - 3 feet away!

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

I'm not so sure if the Benchmark amp will last any longer than these Pro amps from QSC, Crown, and Yamaha.

Did your Classe amp produce any hissing sound from the speakers? When I auditioned the B&W 800D at the dealer, the Classe amp was causing a lot of hissing sound that I could hear clearly from 2 - 3 feet away!

You know, I don't remember any hissing to be honest. I'm sure there was some background noise present to a certain extent, but I don't remember it being an issue at all. I will say that I know it was quieter than the Crown XLS 2502 amp that I have now. That hasn't been an issue when listening to music either, but I do know it (hiss) is louder than the Classé when placing my ear very close to the mid-range speaker. Also, I remember that the huge toroidal transformer in the Classé amp was dead silent at idle. I've heard many audiophile amps over the years that produced an annoying buzz at idle from the their toroidal transformers, but I never had that problem with my old Classé. But that amp you auditioned with the B&W speakers, hearing noise from 2-3 feet away sounds a little suspicious of AC line noise generated from a source further on down the line. It's too bad you couldn't have taken that amplifier home and tried it from there.

 

[ellisr63]

I know my old Classe Dr6, and 2 DR10 amps in bridged mono never made any hiss with my ML Sequel 2s.

I'm not so sure if the Benchmark amp will last any longer than these Pro amps from QSC, Crown, and Yamaha.

Did your Classe amp produce any hissing sound from the speakers? When I auditioned the B&W 800D at the dealer, the Classe amp was causing a lot of hissing sound that I could hear clearly from 2 - 3 feet away!

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

I know my old Classe Dr6, and 2 DR10 amps in bridged mono never made any hiss with my ML Sequel 2s.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

I remember those. Well built. Those were the early 'David Reich' designs before he left the company.

 

[ellisr63]

Thanks, I did not know they went down hill after that.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

Thanks, I did not know they went down hill after that.

Well, I don't know if they went down hill or not, probably not. After David Reich left the company (he was bought out),their product line was still designed and built in Canada, but of course his name and initials were no longer used.

 

[ellisr63]

Well, I don't know if they went down hill or not, probably not. After David Reich left the company (he was bought out),their product line was still designed and built in Canada, but of course his name and initials were no longer used.

Well I do not know if I would say that they have maintained an excellent product if they now have hiss when they didn't in the past models...just my 2 cents. I loved their older products, and like the looks of their newer models.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I will say that it does look like a well-built power amplifier that should give years of reliable service. But regarding SNR, my old Classé power amp from 20 years ago was rated at 135 db as well.

At one watt or at rated power?

 

[PENG]

At one watt or at rated power?

I bet your guess is, at rated power watt, me too. Otherwise it wouldn't even be measurable at 1 Watt.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

@M Code - Any reliability data on the Marantz Pre-pro vs Yamaha Pre-pro vs other Pre-pros ?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well I do not know if I would say that they have maintained an excellent product if they now have hiss when they didn't in the past models...just my 2 cents. I loved their older products, and like the looks of their newer models.

Yeah, I went to the same B&W dealer twice about a few months apart to audition. And both times the Classe amp had hiss noise. That was my only experience with Classe amps.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

At one watt or at rated power?

Good question, I'm not sure. I do know the sales brochure stated 135dBr.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I bet your guess is 1 watt, me too. Otherwise it wouldn't even be measurable at 1 Watt.

You mean rated power, right?

 

[Irvrobinson]

Good question, I'm not sure. I do know the sales brochure stated 135dBr.

I'm guessing it was at rated power. Assuming a gain factor of 28db (I'm guessing, as 28db is typical for audiophile amps) that would put the SNR at 2.83v/8ohms below 110db, which is at least in the realm of possibility for the 1980s. Still, even 100db at 1W is very difficult to achieve with discrete components. 90db@1W is probably more than sufficient for inaudibility, but I'm always leery of companies who think they need to exaggerate specifications.

 

[PENG]

You mean rated power, right?

Yes, thanks for correcting my mental typo, I'll see if I can still edit it.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

I'm guessing it was at rated power. Assuming a gain factor of 28db (I'm guessing, as 28db is typical for audiophile amps) that would put the SNR at 2.83v/8ohms below 110db, which is at least in the realm of possibility for the 1980s. Still, even 100db at 1W is very difficult to achieve with discrete components. 90db@1W is probably more than sufficient for inaudibility, but I'm always leery of companies who think they need to exaggerate specifications.

Yes, amplifier specifications half-truths, I'm with you there. It's times like this I wish I was an EE instead of a former separates audiophool.