The SEPARATES vs. AVR Thread

[PENG]

Here are the REW plots, Denon in Pure Direct, "Separates" in Direct (no Pure). I listened to them for a few hours yesterday, plotted the graphs only this morning. I may post a more detailed review on the separate thread but only after I have more hours on it. So far I am quite sure I will use it in the HT room but that will be a day of hard labor.

 

[panteragstk]

Yes, amplifier specifications half-truths, I'm with you there. It's times like this I wish I was an EE instead of a former separates audiophool.

You say that until you see what classes you have to take to get the degree...Sheesh. Ah the memories...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Here are the REW plots, Denon in Pure Direct, "Separates" in Direct (no Pure). I listened to them for a few hours yesterday, plotted the graphs only this morning. I may post a more detailed review on the separate thread but only after I have more hours on it. So far I am quite sure I will use it in the HT room but that will be a day of hard labor.

So this is the Denon X3400 Receiver vs. the Cambridge 840E Preamplifier Separates?

The plots look identical just as we suspected.

Excellent visual demonstration of what we were talking about!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You say that until you see what classes you have to take to get the degree...Sheesh. Ah the memories...

Last weekend at my sister-in-law's wedding dinner, I saw an old engineering classmate of mine (back when I was engineering major) and, of course, we started talking about those old engineering classes and professors. Some good memories. My favorite classes were Rigid Body Mechanics and Thermodynamics.

I wish these new Pre-pros and AVRs had better rigid body mechanics and thermodynamics.

 

[PENG]

So this is the Denon X3400 Receiver vs. the Cambridge 840E Preamplifier Separates?

The plots look identical just as we suspected.

Excellent visual demonstration of what we were talking about!

Yep, Audyssey did a great job to the bass, will post later.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yep, Audyssey did a great job to the bass, will post later.

You mean Audyssey flattens out the bass ?

But I don't like that. I like big bass.

 

[PENG]

Last weekend at my sister-in-law's wedding dinner, I saw an old engineering classmate of mine (back when I was engineering major) and, of course, we started talking about those old engineering classes and professors. Some good memories. My favorite classes were Rigid Body Mechanics and Thermodynamics.

I wish these new Pre-pros and AVRs had better rigid body mechanics and thermodynamics.

Thermo? My favorite too, did you understand the 2nd law right away without asking questions and some deep thinking? Like Fourier on the EE side, it's a tough concept to grasp and apply.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thermo? My favorite too, did you understand the 2nd law right away without asking questions and some deep thinking? Like Fourier on the EE side, it's a tough concept to grasp and apply.

That must have been 29 years ago when I took Thermo, but I'm pretty sure I didn't understand anything "right away" without some deep thoughts.

I do recall one time our Thermo professor was being a smarta$$ and asked us with a serious straight face, "If a car uses half a tank of gas going uphill, does the tank of gas become full again once the car goes back downhill?"

We're all like, "Are you serious?"

These days, the 2nd law of Thermodynamics is on continuous display in my oldest daughter's room.

 

[PENG]

That must have been 29 years ago when I took Thermo, but I'm pretty sure I didn't understand anything "right away" without some deep thoughts.

I do recall one time our Thermo professor was being a smarta$$ and asked us with a serious straight face, "If a car uses half a tank of gas going uphill, does the tank of gas become full again once the car goes back downhill?"

We're all like, "Are you serious?"

These days, the 2nd law of Thermodynamics is on continuous display in my oldest daughter's room.

They talked about entropy as though they know the second law.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

They talked about entropy as though they know the second law.

You didn't think those professors knew?

I assumed they knew.

Could we apply the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics to the world of AVR/Pre-pros?

It started out with a real simple 2Ch analog preamp and 2Ch amp. Then it evolved to a 2Ch Integrated Amp. Then to a 5.1Ch AVR, but the chassis was still very simple, empty, and clean inside. I think that's one reason AVRs back then lasted 20-30 years. They were so simple and clean. They looked more like the inside of a simple PC with the motherboard, CPU, fans, etc.

Then AVRs went to 7.1 and next thing you know it's now 13.2.

Some people say that Pre-pros make more since than AVRs because Pre-pros don't have as much cramped inside the chassis. But look at these Pre-pros these days like the Denon AVP-A1HDCI! Everything is horseshoed and there is no room to maneuver or breathe.

They're not made simple like analog stereo preamps and amps.

Everything is horseshoed inside a small box. Increasing entropy?

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

Since this is still a SEPARATES vs AVR thread, here's a gift from the pagan gods....

And no, this is NOT my dream system. I just never believed in "Wham, bam, thank you Dan"

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Since this is still a SEPARATES vs AVR thread, here's a gift from the pagan gods....

And no, this is NOT my dream system. I just never believed in "Wham, bam, thank you Dan"

That's not an amp, that's a work of art.

It sounds better than anything else just from sitting there unplugged.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

"It sounds better than anything else just from sitting there unplugged."

LOL

 

[lovinthehd]

Since this is still a SEPARATES vs AVR thread, here's a gift from the pagan gods....

And no, this is NOT my dream system. I just never believed in "Wham, bam, thank you Dan"

Looks like a veggie crisper drawer for a steampunk refrigerator.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

Looks like a veggie crisper drawer for a steampunk refrigerator.

I'll bet he got the design idea from opening the fridge and pulling the crisper to get some celery and thought to himself, "Hey, this is an idea for a new amp design, without the wilted pile of celery of course."

 

[Verdinut]

Okay then I'll post "just" my impressions here and if I am going to do a full review/comparison c/w REW graphs etc., then I'll do it on a new thread.

The Yamaha has impressive specs, but it won't be my choice regardless only because I want Audyssey, can't afford Dirac Live and for HT I think Audyssey is good enough, plus it is easier to set up, should be even easier with the App. Obviously that doesn't apply to you because you only use DEQ, the Yamaha has something similar so you will be happy.

When you talk about Audyssey, I guess you mean the XT/32, not the XT software, right?

BTW, did you see my post #771 just above. Would you have any comments?
Cheers,

 

[Irvrobinson]

I'll bet he got the design idea from opening the fridge and pulling the crisper to get some celery and thought to himself, "Hey, this is an idea for a new amp design, without the wilted pile of celery of course."

I'm not in the target market for that amp either, but I think it's so sexy-looking I'm afraid to view it on my employer's network for fear of activating some porn-detection software.

 

[PENG]

When you talk about Audyssey, I guess you mean the XT/32, not the XT software, right?

BTW, did you see my post #771 just above. Would you have any comments?
Cheers,

XT32 and Sub EQ HT. I owned a AV7005 and AVR-4308CI that had XT, it did okay but no as good as XT32 Sub EQ HT. This thread is getting longer by the second so I missed a few posts, need to catch up.

 

[PENG]

One more advantage of using external amps is that you can have an AVR's inboard power amps, when the warranty period has expired, disconnected to reduce the heat that they generate and have a better chance of benefiting of a longer life span for the AVR used as a pre-pro.

In addition, in my opinion, by the use of some well designed pro power amps with a clip limiting circuit, in the remote possibility of a failure, the speakers are more protected from damage than with most audiophile power amps. As far as I know, there is no such protection in AVR power amps either.

I agree, that's why when one wants to use an AVR for two channel use, it is more about the $/watt plus you get a bunch of features not found on preamps and entry level integrated amps that could be useful for a lot of people.

For me, I have enough power amps to go around without using the AVR's internal amps at all. In my opinion, an one year outdated AVR such as the X3400H, RX-A2070, SR6011 plus a two channel proamp is a smart way to go and it provides some future proofing for people who may evolve from two channel to multi-channel.

 

[KEW]

Just another!
The price is over the top, but I do like them meters!
Luxman L509X