Old Kimber KCAG Silver or new DH Labs Air Matrix?

[Wildings]

Might even boil down to how you position the headphones on your head each time. I wonder with your two wires how well you can do a blind test....maybe not only blind folded but keeping your hands in your lap so you can't feel the stiffness difference in the interconnects. Do you partake of head-fi.org? That seems to be headphone centric....

Im going to do that, and will keep hands behind back..no contact with cables. Waiting for repair return. Yes, I know about other forum....interested here because of reasonable skepticism of what strikes me as absurd. Modest interconnect claims do not seem too far fetched to me.

 

[Wildings]

Sounds like lots of gear like I said. Your dac can't handle usb?

It could....this is better. Obsolete with newer and more costly DACS.

 

[lovinthehd]

Im going to do that, and will keep hands behind back..no contact with cables. Waiting for repair return. Yes, I know about other forum....interested here because of reasonable skepticism of what strikes me as absurd. Modest interconnect claims do not seem too far fetched to me.

Why, you have some experience in metallurgy or dielectrics or something to determine cable characteristics? Do you know the electrical characteristics of the cables you're using? Also, there is a headphone forum here for you to peruse as well https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/audio/headphones-and-earphones.48/

As was mentioned the cable stuff doesn't go far around here. No convincing actual blind tests ever as far as I'm aware...marketing material, reviewer and anecdotal based it seems.

 

[lovinthehd]

It could....this is better. Obsolete with newer and more costly DACS.

Each device has the ability to add noise/detract from signal...that's all. Not a usb guy myself.

 

[Wildings]

Why, you have some experience in metallurgy or dielectrics or something to determine cable characteristics? Do you know the electrical characteristics of the cables you're using? Also, there is a headphone forum here for you to peruse as well https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/audio/headphones-and-earphones.48/

As was mentioned the cable stuff doesn't go far around here. No convincing actual blind tests ever as far as I'm aware...marketing material, reviewer and anecdotal based it seems.

No, I do not know dialectrics or metallurgy, but I think I know what I hear and will attempt a fair test. I am not a cork sniffing wine drinker, but if I tell you there is a hint of lemmongrass, and you dont get it, and it cant be measured....does that mean that those who do are experiencing suggestion or mass hypnosis? Not necessarily. Cable break in, power conditioners, solid state warm up....maybe not!

 

[lovinthehd]

No, I do not know dialectrics or metallurgy, but I think I know what I hear and will attempt a fair test. I am not a cork sniffing wine drinker, but if I tell you there is a hint of lemmongrass, and you dont get it, and it cant be measured....does that mean that those who do are experiencing suggestion or mass hypnosis? Not necessarily. Cable break in, power conditioners, solid state warm up....maybe not!

You know that sniffing a cork is generally useless, right? You want to feel it between your fingers for degradation...altho if it smells horrible that's probably good enough reason to return it. Audiophilia takes a lot of cues from the wine industry as to flowery review language. Lots of expectation bias going on there, too. Ever see the hilarious water experiment that Penn & Teller did?

I do appreciate you trying the other side of the science equation to go with psuedo science and marketing and do wish you good luck with it in any case.

 

[Wildings]

You know that sniffing a cork is generally useless, right? You want to feel it between your fingers for degradation...altho if it smells horrible that's probably good enough reason to return it. Audiophilia takes a lot of cues from the wine industry as to flowery review language. Lots of expectation bias going on there, too. Ever see the hilarious water experiment that Penn & Teller did?

I do appreciate you trying the other side of the science equation to go with psuedo science and marketing and do wish you good luck with it in any case.

Thank you! I know there is a headphone area, but I am satisfied with my gear in that area, and am looking to learn and get some perspectives on the cable issue, from those not interested in selling me something. I saw a cable advertised for $30,000....not $3000.....and asked myself how is such a thing possible?

 

[lovinthehd]

Thank you! I know there is a headphone area, but I am satisfied with my gear in that area, and am looking to learn and get some perspectives on the cable issue, from those not interested in selling me something. I saw a cable advertised for $30,000....not $3000.....and asked myself how is such a thing possible?

The answer is simple....it's possible (and there are more expensive than $30k) but not worth it unless you just like throwing money at a non-issue.

 

[slipperybidness]

Cant speak to what music was recorded with, but is your position that how and what interconnects are made with is inconsequential, and they can neither add nor detract from what you hear with the immediacy and isolation of a headset?

A few other items to consider:
1) You realize that your home has regular old Romex from your breaker box to your power outlet? How could 3 feet of fancy power cable improve your power after it has traveled through 10 or 20 times as much length on the Romex?

2) If fancy power cords and signal cables really did improve the signal, then don't you believe that electronics instruments, electronics labs, industrial analytical labs, and medical equipment would also REQUIRE such magic cables? Yet......these devices do not.

3) What type of wiring to you think is INTERNAL to your electronics? If you buy into the cables making improvements voodoo, then you better start opening up your gear and swapping out all that stock cable too.

What matters is that you have solid construction and adequate gauge wire to carry the signal for the distance that you need.

Once you have an ADEQUATE CABLE FOR YOUR APPLICATION, anything beyond that is a waste of resources. Those resources would be better to re-allocate to other areas of your system (room treatments, better speakers, measurement gear, a nice bottle of whiskey).

Once you have adequate cabling, no you cannot use better cables to improve the signal, it doesn't work that way. However, a poor cable absolutely will degrade the signal, and thus degrade the sound.

 

[slipperybidness]

V-Link asychroonous 24bit 192khz USB to SPDIF converter. I'm starting with streaming source (Tidal) on computer. Then to DAC, then headphone amp.

So, you are running an extra conversion step that really isn't necessary, that is just another opportunity to degrade the signal and add noise to your signal chain.

My RPi streamer delivers the digital signal to the DAC over GPIO pins via the I2S protocol. This is the ideal protocol to deliver a digi signal to the DAC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I²S

I tend to try to avoid USB for audio applications (in fact, I avoid USB any time that it is possible).

If this were me, I would be looking at eliminating this extra conversion stage, I would not be concerned about my interconnects.

Does your PC have any other digi output options? Even a cheap soundcard with optical output to your DAC would likely be my first choice vs USB to optical conversion.

Also, nowadays DACs silicon (chips) are a commodity item. I don't get all worked up over what DAC chip my gear has, it's more about how the entire circuit topology has been implemented.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If you just want to look at pretty cables and are willing to spend the money, then fine.

I've used Kimber Kable for a long time - since I got into this hobby over 20 years ago. I still use Kimber Kable speaker cables today.

But I know it has nothing to do with improving sound quality.

I just love the way Kimber Kable look aesthetically.

 

[Wildings]

So, you are running an extra conversion step that really isn't necessary, that is just another opportunity to degrade the signal and add noise to your signal chain.

My RPi streamer delivers the digital signal to the DAC over GPIO pins via the I2S protocol. This is the ideal protocol to deliver a digi signal to the DAC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I²S

I tend to try to avoid USB for audio applications (in fact, I avoid USB any time that it is possible).

If this were me, I would be looking at eliminating this extra conversion stage, I would not be concerned about my interconnects.

Does your PC have any other digi output options? Even a cheap soundcard with optical output to your DAC would likely be my first choice vs USB to optical conversion.

Also, nowadays DACs silicon (chips) are a commodity item. I don't get all worked up over what DAC chip my gear has, it's more about how the entire circuit topology has been implemented.

Thank you for your advice, I will look into making some changes. This whole thread began because out of necessity I replaced a headphone cable...and a different material was used (solid silver). I thought is sounded noticeably better than the original...so down the rabbit hole re the interconnect question.

 

[MrBoat]

Every time you strip a shyster of it's commissions, the closer it gets to having to work a real job.

You can hear this urgency in their whole shtick, for having no other skills than deception. I take punishing these weasels for sport. Back to fast food with you, shystie!

 

[Wildings]

Thank you for your advice, I will look into making some changes. This whole thread began because out of necessity I replaced a headphone cable...and a different material was used (solid silver). I thought is sounded noticeably better than the original...so down the rabbit hole re the interconnect question.

By the way, price in this case did not color my objectivity ...as described in the interesting wine/price taste experiment ....the silver new headphone cables cost less than replacement Audeze ones would have (which I had repaired later as spare set)....and I had no bias or knowledge re silver vs copper. The suggestion and opportunity was just there to get them instead of stock replacement. So when comparing them, although aware of which was which, I prefered the silver. Will next week do my best to set up a blind test and report back. I really have no agenda promoting one over the other...just that it is pissible to distinguish.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Is it not possible that with advances in headphone and speaker technology it is now possible to discern qualities and subtle differences not so evident previously? If aspects of what we can taste are not measurable but can be described, why not also aspects of what hear?

No, it is not possible. Human perception has limits and has been tested. Do you ask the audiologist what wires he is using or headphones?

 

[lovinthehd]

No, it is not possible. Human perception has limits and has been tested. Do you ask the audiologist what wires he is using or headphones?

LOL actually have an appointment Thursday...and was going to check out the gear

 

[Wildings]

LOL actually have an appointment Thursday...and was going to check out the gear

Have never been to one. I am talking about subtilties, not "do you hear it now" testing. If that is the nature of of the test, I would think the measuring equipment would be straightforward. Can characteristics such as soundstage and instrument separation be scientifically measured in music reproduction?

 

[lovinthehd]

Have never been to one. I am talking about subtilties, not "do you hear it now" testing. If that is the nature of of the test, I would think the measuring equipment would be straightforward. Can characteristics such as soundstage and instrument separation be scientifically measured in music reproduction?

First you'd have to determine the soundstage/separation as created by the recording/mixing engineer (since it's not a real thing that's being recorded generally) and see how faithfully you're reproducing it...so you'd basically need the engineer's room and speakers?

 

[Wildings]

What I hear does not necessarily have to be faithful to the engineer's master....but those qualities (soundstage and separation) should be discernable to me as a listner, and more or less so depending on how they are delivered to my ear. What I am curious to find out about is the effect of the conduit which carries them (not the reproduction components).

 

[Wildings]

What I hear does not necessarily have to be faithful to the engineer's master....but those qualities (soundstage and separation) should be discernable to me as a listner, and more or less so depending on how they are delivered to my ear. What I am curious to find out about is the effect of the conduit which carries them (not the reproduction components).

Just another facet...when I was speaking with a Cable Guy today and mentioned I had an old cable...he said they can wear out. Hmm...possibly the sheathing if subjected to constant moving around? Mine hasnt moved in ten years. But the core?? Ahh, if there is a "break in" period, should I accept that there is a worn out stage?