My first attempt - “home theater”

[Antonio Grajo]

What I’m really surprised about is how the electrostats REALLY need watts!

From what I researched, they needs lots of power and they run around 4 ohms.
That’s why I thought the crown 1502 that’s rated 350w @ 4 ohms is enough. But I already increased the gains of the amp 3/4 the way and brought the volume of the AVR to 80, and the electrostats seemed needed more power.

That’s why even with the crown 2502, rated at 775w @ 4 ohms .....the electrostats seems still needs more? I don’t know how to really push the electrostats....unless they really need tube amps?

 

[KEW]

How did I connect the powered portion of the MLS? I didn’t do anything. They’re built-in, and automatically runs the 8” woofers. I know they’re working since I can hear & feel the woofers moving & producing sound.
Not sure if I answered your question correctly?

The builtin power supply is for low voltage DC and used to provide the static charge for the film (see page 6 (and 7) of manual (link below).
The 8" bass drivers are powered by the speaker level inputs, just as any normal woofer would be!

https://www.martinlogan.com/uploads/documents/manuals/manual_source.pdf

 

[lovinthehd]

What I’m really surprised about is how the electrostats REALLY need watts!

From what I researched, they needs lots of power and they run around 4 ohms.
That’s why I thought the crown 1502 that’s rated 350w @ 4 ohms is enough. But I already increased the gains of the amp 3/4 the way and brought the volume of the AVR to 80, and the electrostats seemed needed more power.

That’s why even with the crown 2502, rated at 775w @ 4 ohms .....the electrostats seems still needs more? I don’t know how to really push the electrostats....unless they really need tube amps?

Why not put gain up to full first before changing amp? What's the speaker level set by Audyssey? You did re-run Audyssey when adding/changing the external amps?

 

[Antonio Grajo]

You weren't getting enough juice with the amps set to max gain with the 1502? Just how loud do you like it? I'm familiar with the 1502, have four 1500s.

Yes, was wondering if the speakers had a separate bass module you were connecting to the sub pre-out or not...seems it's simply built in to the internal circuitry when you make a normal speaker connection?

The banana plugs behind the MLs which powers the electrostats, and there’s also the power cord. I guess once the power cord gets power, it automatically powers the built in amp for the woofers?


Regarding the 1502, when the volume of the marantz were around 80, the led lights goes close to “clipping” but never touched the red clipping led lights tho. Does it mean that the amp is enough for the electrostats?
I just don’t like that the gain knobs on the 1502 is set so high almost in between 3/4 and max, I guess

 

[KEW]

Using ML electrostats for HT is a little unusual as they have a very small sweet spot (where they sound so uniquely magical). However, the curved design allows for reasonable horizontal dispersion.
Make sure, especially for music, you have a seat perfectly centered and follow the guidelines on pages 8-11 of the manual.

 

[lovinthehd]

The banana plugs behind the MLs which powers the electrostats, and there’s also the power cord. I guess once the power cord gets power, it automatically powers the built in amp for the woofers?


Regarding the 1502, when the volume of the marantz were around 80, the led lights goes close to “clipping” but never touched the red clipping led lights tho. Does it mean that the amp is enough for the electrostats?
I just don’t like that the gain knobs on the 1502 is set so high almost in between 3/4 and max, I guess

Not clipping is good but does sound like you still had some room to go....these amps are fully intended to be run with gain set at full, you're just limiting the amp otherwise. You may not need it set to full depending on the pre-out output levels from the avr....

 

[Antonio Grajo]

Why not put gain up to full first before changing amp? What's the speaker level set by Audyssey? You did re-run Audyssey when adding/changing the external amps?

Oh yeah trust me, I actually also set the gains maxed out....and didn’t really help a lot.

And yes, I always run the Audyssey

 

[lovinthehd]

Oh yeah trust me, I actually also set the gains maxed out....and didn’t really help a lot.

And yes, I always run the Audyssey

Just be careful with level, being able to turn it up to "11" doesn't mean you should....

 

[Antonio Grajo]

Using ML electrostats for HT is a little unusual as they have a very small sweet spot (where they sound so uniquely magical). However, the curved design allows for reasonable horizontal dispersion.
Make sure, especially for music, you have a seat perfectly centered and follow the guidelines on pages 8-11 of the manual.

Yes, I’m aware that they have a very limited sweet spot esp for a HT.

I originally bought the pair of MLs thinking that they’ll be an upgrade compared to my Bose v20 system. They are better, but technically they’re not especially if u want a surround. Plus of course I learned about the “sweet spot” after I bought them lol

 

[Antonio Grajo]

Just be careful with level, being able to turn it up to "11" doesn't mean you should....

Oh yeah, that’s why I mentioned in my previous post that I don’t like going up that high with the gain/level knob.
I just like them under 3/4 max for safety reasons

And that’s the main reason I went with 2502.

 

[lovinthehd]

Oh yeah, that’s why I mentioned in my previous post that I don’t like going up that high with the gain/level knob.
I just like them under 3/4 max for safety reasons

And that’s the main reason I went with 2502.

I was more referring to the master volume knob , altho limiting that to reference output level is probably reasonable, it's twisting it all the way that can bring issues. More power is more power....and your speakers have limits.

 

[Antonio Grajo]

The builtin power supply is for low voltage DC and used to provide the static charge for the film (see page 6 (and 7) of manual (link below).
The 8" bass drivers are powered by the speaker level inputs, just as any normal woofer would be!

https://www.martinlogan.com/uploads/documents/manuals/manual_source.pdf

Thank you!

That’s good to know!

But I wonder how the 8” bass drivers get any speaker level inputs of the banana plugs are meant for the electrostats?

Or somehow the internal circuitry of the built in amp is also connected to the banana plug connections?

Sorry too many questions. Still trying to learn

 

[Antonio Grajo]

Not clipping is good but does sound like you still had some room to go....these amps are fully intended to be run with gain set at full, you're just limiting the amp otherwise. You may not need it set to full depending on the pre-out output levels from the avr....

Oh I didn’t know that thr crown amps are meant to have their hair set at full!!!
Thank you!

Both the crown 1502 and 2502 never got hot even when I turn up the volume during movie night. Which is good


So when u say depending on the pre-out output levels of the avr, you’re talking about volt of the avr correct? How will I know this regarding my Marantz SR6012?

 

[lovinthehd]

Oh I didn’t know that thr crown amps are meant to have their hair set at full!!!
Thank you!

Both the crown 1502 and 2502 never got hot even when I turn up the volume during movie night. Which is good


So when u say depending on the pre-out output levels of the avr, you’re talking about volt of the avr correct? How will I know this regarding my Marantz SR6012?

Think of the gain control as an attenuator, dialing it back from full power. Hard to know your voltage on the pre-outs without measuring, manuals aren't much help. Which sensitivity setting are/were you using on the Crowns?

 

[Antonio Grajo]

Think of the gain control as an attenuator, dialing it back from full power. Hard to know your voltage on the pre-outs without measuring, manuals aren't much help. Which sensitivity setting are/were you using on the Crowns?

Ok, I’ll max out my gain control once I get home tonight!
So, as long as the led lights don’t reach the red led “clipping” I’m good to go?

By the way, I don’t even know how to set the sensitivity of the crowns. The crowns have 0.775v position. I guess I need to check out my AVR and see if I can match it. Need to learn this

 

[lovinthehd]

Ok, I’ll max out my gain control once I get home tonight!
So, as long as the led lights don’t reach the red led “clipping” I’m good to go?

By the way, I don’t even know how to set the sensitivity of the crowns. The crowns have 0.775v position. I guess I need to check out my AVR and see if I can match it. Need to learn this

Yes, you don't want to go into clipping during use at your highest levels, or just barely get there (and the amps have the peakx limiters, too). .775V would be used if your pre-outs are at such a low level as to not be able to get to full power with 1.4V. I'd think the Marantz' output levels are fine for 1.4V from what I've read (I have a Sony avr that has a particularly low level sub pre-out, only time it's mattered in use of my 1500s). Don't know how to set sensitivity, don't see a switch on the back panel so assume it's a setting in the front panel/dsp settings, believe default is 1.4V tho.

 

[Antonio Grajo]

Yes, you don't want to go into clipping during use at your highest levels, or just barely get there (and the amps have the peakx limiters, too). .775V would be used if your pre-outs are at such a low level as to not be able to get to full power with 1.4V. I'd think the Marantz' output levels are fine for 1.4V from what I've read (I have a Sony avr that has a particularly low level sub pre-out, only time it's mattered in use of my 1500s). Don't know how to set sensitivity, don't see a switch on the back panel so assume it's a setting in the front panel/dsp settings, believe default is 1.4V tho.

Thank you for all your help and great info today! Lots of stuff I need to absorb & learn.

 

[KEW]

Thank you!

That’s good to know!

But I wonder how the 8” bass drivers get any speaker level inputs of the banana plugs are meant for the electrostats?

Or somehow the internal circuitry of the built in amp is also connected to the banana plug connections?

Sorry too many questions. Still trying to learn

If you look at page 15, the diagram shows the Source as having a single crossover at 470Hz. The ESL panel can handle everything above and the 8" driver everything below. Just like a normal speaker, the full signal comes in via the speaker cables/banana plugs and the crossover routes the low frequencies to the 8" cone and the higher frequencies to the ESL panel.
The low level DC power is used to maintain the static charge. I don't know that this is properly called a built-in amp. However, I believe your speakers are very much like my ML Vistas. You can verify this by looking at where the IEC cord connects. Mine says:

Maximum Current Draw 0.125A
Maximum Power 10 Watt

I'm no EE, but that doesn't seem like enough to get significant SPL out of even the most efficient woofers.

 

[Antonio Grajo]

If you look at page 15, the diagram shows the Source as having a single crossover at 470Hz. The ESL panel can handle everything above and the 8" driver everything below. Just like a normal speaker, the full signal comes in via the speaker cables/banana plugs and the crossover routes the low frequencies to the 8" cone and the higher frequencies to the ESL panel.
The low level DC power is used to maintain the static charge. I don't know that this is properly called a built-in amp. However, I believe your speakers are very much like my ML Vistas. You can verify this by looking at where the IEC cord connects. Mine says:

I'm no EE, but that doesn't seem like enough to get significant SPL out of even the most efficient woofers.

Ok now I’m confused! Lol!
So crown 2502 is feeding the connection of the banana plugs.

I thought the amp is mainly feeding the ESLs?

The way I’m reading your post, it seems like the amp is both feeding the ESL and 8” woofer, or I’m reading it wrong?

I thought the built-in 200w amp feeds the woofer, and my crown is feeding the ESL?

Or there is no built in amp on my ML?

 

[Antonio Grajo]

I guess the guy who sold me the MLS also doesnt know what he’s talking about.
He specifically told me the sources have built in amps for the woofers....and I’ll just need to buy a separate amps for the ESLs.

I guess, all this time, I was under that impression.

All wrong!



The sources doesn’t have any built in amps at all

My crown 2502, are feeding both the ESL and 8” woofer is the true answer!