The SEPARATES vs. AVR Thread

[AcuDefTechGuy]

how about those in the 2 channel only camp ? since you picked Parasound as an amp I say keep the synergy and go with the P5, still gives the 2.1 option. As for multi-channel capability how about the P7 ?

Okay, I edited that post to include 2Ch Preamps.

The P7 MCH Preamp (not Pre-pro) is a difficult sell because most people either want 2Ch Preamp or MCH Pre-pro.

And I would like to see @ematthews and a few others to comment on his experience with the Parasound P5 2Ch Preamp.

 

[TechHDS]

You may hijack the thread all you want. Consider it like a commercial break.

I never like the idea of modifying a current speaker unless you are a speaker designer/builder yourself like Denise Murphy.

For most of us, I think it's best to just buy new speakers because it is usually about the overall design, not just the one driver or the crossover.

I believe the guys here have pretty much nailed the Separates vs AVR question - it just depends on your current priority and personal experience/comfort level.

I've had years of experience with the Denon 3000 series vs 4000 vs 5000 vs AVP-A1 + ATI amps, as well as other separates from Bryston, Acurus, Classe, Mark Levinson, McIntosh, NAD, Anthem.

Speakers/Subwoofers and room acoustics seem to be salient to me, not Separates vs AVR.

Currently I do use separates in my main system (Denon AVP-A1HDCI + ATI AT3005 and AT2005). But I will say that I would be very comfortable and happy with the sound quality if the Pre-pro were substituted with a Denon X3000 series.

Since I am 100% happy with the sound quality of my system, these days it's all about the music, movies, and TV shows.

So my priority has shifted from auditioning/buying audio components to just enjoying the music, movies, and TV shows.

Priority and comfort level are the 2 main factors to me.

So what you are trying to convey, driver's with a better motor structure, alone with a better voice coil wouldn't improve slope drop off? At least replacing the upper mid-range drivers and the Tweeter should improve overall sound quality.

 

[Mikado463]

Okay, I edited that post to include 2Ch Preamps.

gotcha and with that being said if one is wiling to go used the ARC LS27 might just fit in at the top , 3k, of your spread. A superb line stage preamp that won't disappoint.

The P7 MCH Preamp (not Pre-pro) is a difficult sell because most people either want 2Ch Preamp or MCH Pre-pro.

understood .......

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So what you are trying to convey, driver's with a better motor structure, alone with a better voice coil wouldn't improve slope drop off? At least replacing the upper mid-range drivers and the Tweeter should improve overall sound quality.

You would have to change the crossovers also to match your new drivers, right?

Well, if the speaker has low quality drivers and crossovers in the first place, the overall speaker and design is probably low quality also.

So why even mess with it?

If you are going to change drivers, crossovers, cabinet bracing, etc., might as well just buy new speakers that sound great.

How much would this driver/crossover upgrade cost you vs buying new speakers?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

gotcha and with that being said if one is wiling to go used the ARC LS27 might just fit in at the top , 3k, of your spread. A superb line stage preamp that won't disappoint.

3K used preamp, no warranty?

I think if I were going with analog preamp high-end, I would go for the Bryston BP17 for $2444 "Refresh" and get 20 Years warranty.

 

[Mikado463]

3K used preamp, no warranty?

one might get one for a little less, regardless it's a hell of a pre and we're talking Audio Research. Can you name one other Audio mfg that still supports it's products as far back as ARC does...50 years !

I think if I were going with analog preamp high-end, I would go for the Bryston BP17 for $2444 "Refresh" and get 20 Years warranty.

I've never heard it but Bryston makes some fine kit.

 

[PENG]

So if someone has heard all the debates and says he still would never want an AVR, which pre-pro would you recommend in the $2-4K range?

Anthem AVM60 $3,000 - ARC
Marantz AV8802A $2500 (MSRP $4,000) - Audyssey XT32
Marantz AV7703 $1450 (MSRP $2200) - Audyssey XT32
Marantz AV7704 $2200 - Audyssey XT32
Emotiva XMC-1 $2500 - Dirac
Integra DRC-R1 $2300 - AccuEQ
NAD T187 V3 $3,000 - Audyssey XT (not XT32)
Other Pre-pros?



Which 2Ch Preamplifier in the $1-3K range?
McIntosh D-150 $3000
Bryston BP17 (factory refreshed/refurbished, 20YR warranty) $2444
PS Audio $1700
Cambridge Azur 851N $1500
NAD C-510 $1300
Parasound P5 $1100
NAD 165BEE $1000
Cambridge CXN V2 $900
Parasound Classic-2100 $700



Criteria: Great Sound for 2Ch Stereo Music and/or 5.1 Surround Sound Movies, DTS-HD MA, Dolby TrueHD.

Other features wanted: other than HDMI, nothing really. Don't care for ATMOS or DTS:X or 3D or 4K.

Considering Amps: ATI, Anthem, Parasound, Rotel, McIntosh

Considering Speakers: similar to RBH SVT Towers, Paradigm Persona 5F towers, Revel Studio2, B&W 803D3, KEF Reference 3, Focal 1038Be, Dynaudio Contour 60

For prepro, I would definitely go with the AV8802A. I just don't see the logic for going with the AV7003/4 that are 99.9% glorified AVR less the build in power amps, practically speaking.

On the preamp side, are you mixing the analog only, digital/analog and digital only? For analog, I prefer Cambridge Audio assuming the 851E, the successor of my 840E is still fully balance.

 

[Mikado463]

For sale, PolkAudio Monitor 70's series 2. letting go for the street price of 200 for the pair. About 6 months old, very clean low mileage. Not a scratch on them.

Duhhhh, there is a classified section !

 

[TechHDS]

Duhhhh, there is a classified section !

There is? going look Thx.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

For prepro, I would definitely go with the AV8802A.

I agree with the AV8802A - a $4K Pre-pro on sale for $2,500.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

For sale, PolkAudio Monitor 70's series 2. letting go for the street price of 200 for the pair. About 6 months old, very clean low mileage. Not a scratch on them.

Polk and Klipsch are very popular speakers.

 

[sterling shoote]

I think there's an excellent chance that the company itself, the designers, the QA processes, and the manufacturing process are somewhat different now than they were in 1978.

Yeah, I'm sure manufacturing processes are somewhat different for Marantz today than the way they were in the 70's, still, I'm gun shy.

 

[cpp]

I use both. I say just enjoy the music using whatever makes you happy.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Yeah, I'm sure manufacturing processes are somewhat different for Marantz today than the way they were in the 70's, still, I'm gun shy.

After 40 years... now that's a long memory.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

There is? going look Thx.

Selling your Polk and Emotiva and letting us spend your money on new toys?

We love doing that.

But then you won't have any reasons to post on those Polk and EMO forums anymore.

Will be fun watching you debate and trying to decide which route to go - AVR vs Pre-pro.

If my brothers, sister, or parents asked me which one I recommend, I would say try to get a new Denon X3400 on sale from Fry's, Newegg, or Electronic Expo for around $550.

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/denon-avr-x3400h-549-w-free-shipping.110587/#post-1242043

I told one of my friends that.

Then he asked, "Which one do you use?"

I said, "Denon AVP-A1HDCI, ATI AT3005, and ATI AT2005".

He looked very confused and said, "Oh, okay."

 

[panteragstk]

Selling your Polk and Emotiva and letting us spend your money on new toys?

We love doing that.

But then you won't have any reasons to post on those Polk and EMO forums anymore.

Will be fun watching you debate and trying to decide which route to go - AVR vs Pre-pro.

If my brothers, sister, or parents asked me which one I recommend, I would say try to get a new Denon X3400 on sale from Fry's, Newegg, or Electronic Expo for around $550.

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/denon-avr-x3400h-549-w-free-shipping.110587/#post-1242043

I told one of my friends that.

Then he asked, "Which one do you use?"

I said, "Denon AVP-A1HDCI, ATI AT3005, and ATI AT2005".

He looked very confused and said, "Oh, okay."

It's pretty difficult to beat that price. No matter what the use case is.

 

[sterling shoote]

After 40 years... now that's a long memory.

Shhh, I don't want my wife to know I have any memory.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Shhh, I don't want my wife to know I have any memory.

Honey, I had no idea when I got this thing. Could have been years ago. I think it was a gift or something.

 

[3db]

Shhh, I don't want my wife to know I have any memory.

Or know that you can hear her call your name.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

With the trend of avr getting more and more channels and features i have a feeling they will loose amp section aver time and separates will become mandatory)))

You don't think that one day, MOST people will buy separates, instead of AVR, do you?

Here is the latest Denon X3400 that often go on sale for $600. I see no indication that the amp section is producing less power.

147.6 watts x 2Ch into 8 ohms, 1% THD
106.1 watts x 5Ch into 8 ohms Continuous, 1% THD
176.7 watts x 2Ch into 4 ohms, 1% THD

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-x3400h-av-receiver-review-test-bench#4vgeFIWI4kRfXVYi.99