The SEPARATES vs. AVR Thread

[TechHDS]

Well they do usually post the current output. It is commonly posted what the power output is into varying loads. So if you have 8 , 4 and sometimes 2 ohm power spec, then it is easy.

You need ohms law, V=IR. But you also need to know that power is the square of the current X resistance and also the square of the voltage divided by the resistance. Once you understand that you can work out max voltage and current from an amp. So into higher impedance loads, amps are more likely to be voltage limited and current limited into lower impedance loads.

I gave my book, Ohms law for 'Dummies' To Boudreaux!, Now from what me been told, by Thibodaux dem two's at dat Crawfish Festival @ Breaux Bridge. Dun went and started a big old Ruckus wit dem couyons @ dat Boudin Festival on da others side of da Bayou. Shea man! I tell ya, I sure wish Mr. Einstein never said relatively matters.

 

[PENG]

Which ones aren’t? Behringer and Pyle Amps?

You don't usually get something for nothing so I would be more concerned with the super cheap ones, other than that I would compare say the class B types are not likely comparable to Emotiva and Outlaw products.

 

[PENG]

I gave my book, Ohms law for 'Dummies' To Boudreaux!, Now from what me been told, by Thibodaux dem two's at dat Crawfish Festival @ Breaux Bridge. Dun went and started a big old Ruckus wit dem couyons @ dat Boudin Festival on da others side of da Bayou. Shea man! I tell ya, I sure wish Mr. Einstein never said relatively matters.

You don't need Ohms law dummies book any more, Google can be your friend, or even Alexa, no?

In fact, you don't even need Ohm's law. As TLS Guy mentioned, the power formula for a resistive load are:

Power = V^2/R, or VI, or I^2*R so if using P = I^2*R, I = √(P/R).

Example: If the amp is rated 100 WPC into 8 ohm, rated current output would be:

I = √100/8 = 3.54 A per channel

Typically, a good mid range AVR can output at least 15 to 20% more power into 4 ohm, so assuming 20% more power into 4 ohm, the current output into 4 ohm would be:

I = √120/4 = 5.48 A per channel

The above 4 ohm load examples are for 1 or 2 channel driven only. If 5 or more channel are driven simultaneously, most mid range AVR, and even some flag ship models will have trouble delivering the much higher current, and would likely shutdown by the protection circuit.

 

[TLS Guy]

I gave my book, Ohms law for 'Dummies' To Boudreaux!, Now from what me been told, by Thibodaux dem two's at dat Crawfish Festival @ Breaux Bridge. Dun went and started a big old Ruckus wit dem couyons @ dat Boudin Festival on da others side of da Bayou. Shea man! I tell ya, I sure wish Mr. Einstein never said relatively matters.

I'm not sure pretending to be a red neck ignoramus is all that funny. However may be "Pretending" is stretching the meaning of the word too far!

 

[TechHDS]

I'm not sure pretending to be a red neck ignoramus is all that funny. However may be "Pretending" is stretching the meaning of the word too far!

RedNeck? lmao, may I send you some crawfish etouffee would Dat convince you I'm not a redneck?. God forbid anyone post up some bad words..lol.TLS, Your sense of humor isn't mine. But then again when I pass a joke No One Dies..

 

[Mikado463]

But then again when I pass a joke No One Dies..

just don't 'pass gas' ! .......

 

[Irvrobinson]

just don't 'pass gas' ! .......

You think he's really Pumbaa?

 

[TechHDS]

You don't need Ohms law dummies book any more, Google can be your friend, or even Alexa, no?

In fact, you don't even need Ohm's law. As TLS Guy mentioned, the power formula for a resistive load are:

Power = V^2/R, or VI, or I^2*R so if using P = I^2*R, I = √(P/R).

Example: If the amp is rated 100 WPC into 8 ohm, rated current output would be:

I = √100/8 = 3.54 A per channel

Typically, a good mid range AVR can output at least 15 to 20% more power into 4 ohm, so assuming 20% more power into 4 ohm, the current output into 4 ohm would be:

I = √120/4 = 5.48 A per channel

The above 4 ohm load examples are for 1 or 2 channel driven only. If 5 or more channel are driven simultaneously, most mid range AVR, and even some flag ship models will have trouble delivering the much higher current, and would likely shutdown by the protection circuit.

Dat book is gone I tell ya!.Dem two couyons lost dat book back of Catahoula I think? Who's dem two womens dat you talking about I should check out? What dey name's again? did you say, Googly?, may dey all got dem Googly, eyes down here, as far as Dat, Lexus, I tried her she to sassy., . Lol. I'm out, Fabolous!. Its Sunday, just thought I'd mess with you guys a bit. Brainiacs all around me I tell ta!.

 

[TechHDS]

You think he's really Pumbaa?

I'm Spartacus!

 

[Mikado463]

Spartacus!

I thought Timon .......

 

[Irvrobinson]

Spartacus!

Kirk Douglas had a gas problem?

 

[mtrot]

My setup is not exactly separates, but I did add a separate Krell amp to my Denon AVR-X5200 for the front R/L channels. The FPB 400cx is a class A amp and I do think the sound with two channel music is better than with the AVR alone. There seems to be something about that class A amplification.

 

[lovinthehd]

My setup is not exactly separates, but I did add a separate Krell amp to my Denon AVR-X5200 for the front R/L channels. The FPB 400cx is a class A amp and I do think the sound with two channel music is better than with the AVR alone. There seems to be something about that class A amplification.

Curious, where did the Krell difference seem to be most noticeable, as to a particular volume level? Or are you saying no matter the volume level or sound mode the addition of the amp seemed particularly different?

I would think the processing rather than the amp (with all the normal cautions about using amp within its capable range etc) would be where the audio differences would lie rather than the amp section alone.

 

[mtrot]

Curious, where did the Krell difference seem to be most noticeable, as to a particular volume level? Or are you saying no matter the volume level or sound mode the addition of the amp seemed particularly different?

I would think the processing rather than the amp (with all the normal cautions about using amp within its capable range etc) would be where the audio differences would lie rather than the amp section alone.

To me, it's not volume related. I just feel that the difference is more with respect to the tonality of vocals, strings; just a nicer, more musical sound to it. Totally subjective, I know.

 

[TechHDS]

Top of the Morning Fellows!. Thinking of replacing the driver's in my current speakers with 'better' drivers.What are thoughts for improve overall sound quality? I have Polk Audio M70 series 2, L/R mains. The tweeter is a soft Dome fabric, what about going with soft Dome silk?
'4' 6 1/2" driver's. Thinking of replacing all 8 drivers with ones of better structure, The ones in there are a cheap stamped steel. Now speaker enclosure is braced, has a cheap foam stuffing up to the 3rd driver from bottom up, below the 4th driver which is the bottom driver there isn't any foam. Now the crossover? Modifying the crossover any thoughts on that?

ADTG, after this post I'll stop hijacking your thread. Just trying to see what kind of responses I'm going to get before I open up my own thread on this issue. Hope its not the usual responses, replace your speakers, or you need these speaker's. They on sale, for only $2,999.99 cent each. Or Your gear sucks
You need all separate, and start with Pass, or Krell.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Top of the Morning Fellows!. Thinking of replacing the driver's in my current speakers with 'better' drivers.What are thoughts for improve overall sound quality? I have Polk Audio M70 series 2, L/R mains. The tweeter is a soft Dome fabric, what about going with soft Dome silk?
'4' 6 1/2" driver's. Thinking of replacing all 8 drivers with ones of better structure, The ones in there are a cheap stamped steel. Now speaker enclosure is braced, has a cheap foam stuffing up to the 3rd driver from bottom up, below the 4th driver which is the bottom driver there isn't any foam. Now the crossover? Modifying the crossover any thoughts on that?

ADTG, after this post I'll stop hijacking your thread. Just trying to see what kind of responses I'm going to get before I open up my own thread on this issue. Hope its not the usual responses, replace your speakers, or you need these speaker's. They on sale, for only $2,999.99 cent each. Or Your gear sucks
You need all separate, and start with Pass, or Krell.

You may hijack the thread all you want. Consider it like a commercial break.

I never like the idea of modifying a current speaker unless you are a speaker designer/builder yourself like Denise Murphy.

For most of us, I think it's best to just buy new speakers because it is usually about the overall design, not just the one driver or the crossover.

I believe the guys here have pretty much nailed the Separates vs AVR question - it just depends on your current priority and personal experience/comfort level.

I've had years of experience with the Denon 3000 series vs 4000 vs 5000 vs AVP-A1 + ATI amps, as well as other separates from Bryston, Acurus, Classe, Mark Levinson, McIntosh, NAD, Anthem.

Speakers/Subwoofers and room acoustics seem to be salient to me, not Separates vs AVR.

Currently I do use separates in my main system (Denon AVP-A1HDCI + ATI AT3005 and AT2005). But I will say that I would be very comfortable and happy with the sound quality if the Pre-pro were substituted with a Denon X3000 series.

Since I am 100% happy with the sound quality of my system, these days it's all about the music, movies, and TV shows.

So my priority has shifted from auditioning/buying audio components to just enjoying the music, movies, and TV shows.

Priority and comfort level are the 2 main factors to me.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So if someone has heard all the debates and says he still would never want an AVR, which pre-pro would you recommend in the $2-4K range?

Anthem AVM60 $3,000 - ARC
Marantz AV8802A $2500 (MSRP $4,000) - Audyssey XT32
Marantz AV7703 $1450 (MSRP $2200) - Audyssey XT32
Marantz AV7704 $2200 - Audyssey XT32
Emotiva XMC-1 $2500 - Dirac
Integra DRC-R1 $2300 - AccuEQ
NAD T187 V3 $3,000 - Audyssey XT (not XT32)
Other Pre-pros?



Which 2Ch Preamplifier in the $1-3K range?
McIntosh D-150 $3000
Bryston BP17 (factory refreshed/refurbished, 20YR warranty) $2444
PS Audio $1700
Cambridge Azur 851N $1500
NAD C-510 $1300
Parasound P5 $1100
NAD 165BEE $1000
Cambridge CXN V2 $900
Parasound Classic-2100 $700



Criteria: Great Sound for 2Ch Stereo Music and/or 5.1 Surround Sound Movies, DTS-HD MA, Dolby TrueHD.

Other features wanted: other than HDMI, nothing really. Don't care for ATMOS or DTS:X or 3D or 4K.

Considering Amps: ATI, Anthem, Parasound, Rotel, McIntosh

Considering Speakers: similar to RBH SVT Towers, Paradigm Persona 5F towers, Revel Studio2, B&W 803D3, KEF Reference 3, Focal 1038Be, Dynaudio Contour 60

 

[Mikado463]

So if someone has heard all the debates and says he still would never want an AVR, which pre-pro would you recommend in the $2-4K range?

Anthem AVM60 $3,000 - ARC
Marantz AV8802A $2500 (MSRP $4,000) - Audyssey XT32
Marantz AV7703 $1450 (MSRP $2200) - Audyssey XT32
Marantz AV7704 $2200 - Audyssey XT32
Emotiva XMC-1 $2500 - Dirac
Integra DRC-R1 $2300 - AccuEQ
Other Pre-pros?

Criteria: Great Sound for 2Ch Stereo Music and 5.1 Surround Sound Movies, DTS-HD MA, Dolby TrueHD.

Other features wanted: other than HDMI, nothing really. Don't care for ATMOS or DTS:X or 3D or 4K.

Considering Amps: ATI, Anthem, Parasound, Rotel, McIntosh

Considering Speakers: similar to RBH SVT Towers, Paradigm Persona 5F towers, Revel Studio2, B&W 803D3, KEF Reference 3, Focal 1038Be, Dynaudio Contour 60

how about those in the 2 channel only camp ? since you picked Parasound as an amp I say keep the synergy and go with the P5, still gives the 2.1 option. As for multi-channel capability how about the P7 ?

 

[sterling shoote]

I know for sure i do not want an AVR, so if my 18 year old non HDMI 5.1 pre/pro breaks and I can not fix it then I'd likely go with the Marantz pre/pro, the top model. I'd also test it for all functions and if there was anything suspicious the unit would go back for return of my money. Then I'd buy another brand. The point is I'd give Marantz a chance; but, I've gotta tell ya, so far, there's been something wrong with every Marantz product I've ever owned, beginning with a Marantz 2230 back in 1974 and ending with a Marantz 3800 preamp in 1978.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I've gotta tell ya, so far, there's been something wrong with every Marantz product I've ever owned, beginning with a Marantz 2230 back in 1974 and ending with a Marantz 3800 preamp in 1978.

I think there's an excellent chance that the company itself, the designers, the QA processes, and the manufacturing process are somewhat different now than they were in 1978.