The SEPARATES vs. AVR Thread

[PENG]

You don't think that one day, MOST people will buy separates, instead of AVR, do you?

Here is the latest Denon X3400 that often go on sale for $600. I see no indication that the amp section is producing less power.

147.6 watts x 2Ch into 8 ohms, 1% THD
106.1 watts x 5Ch into 8 ohms Continuous, 1% THD
176.7 watts x 2Ch into 4 ohms, 1% THD

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-x3400h-av-receiver-review-test-bench#4vgeFIWI4kRfXVYi.99

People worry too much. Those jammed pack AVRs now have build in fans, but for longevity it is easy to add a <$20 quiet external fans that you have been recommending. Separates won't be mandatory, fans probably are, or maybe.

 

[TechHDS]

I gave my book, Ohms law for 'Dummies' To Boudreaux!, Now from what me been told, by Thibodaux dem two's at dat Crawfish Festival @ Breaux Bridge. Dun went and started a big old Ruckus wit dem couyons @ dat Boudin Festival on da others side of da Bayou. Shea man! I tell ya, I sure wish Mr. Einstein never said relatively matters.

The post with the missed spelled word's are meant to be misspelled. You guys never heard of Boudin? or Dat? it's slang for 'that'. Who 'Dat' or Dey slang for 'them' Who 'Dey'. Couyons slang for crazy. Anyways it's ment to be a humorous post.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

People worry too much. Those jammed pack AVRs now have build in fans, but for longevity it is easy to add a <$20 quiet external fans that you have been recommending. Separates won't be mandatory, fans probably are, or maybe.

True. The only thing mandatory is ventilation.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The post with the missed spelled word are meant to be spelled misspelled. You guys never heard of Boudin? or Dat? it's slang for 'that'. Who 'Dat' or Dey slang for 'them' Who 'Dey'. Couyons slang for crazy. Anyways it's ment to be a humorous post.

Some people worry too much, and some people don’t have a lot of humor sometimes.

 

[TechHDS]

one might get one for a little less, regardless it's a hell of a pre and we're talking Audio Research. Can you name one other Audio mfg that still supports it's products as far back as ARC does...50 years !



I've never heard it but Bryston makes some fine kit.

Umm, Polk Audio is one, since Matthew Polk sold off who knows where the company will end up at. The Amps in their Pro Subs haven't been the most reliable from what I know you would be very lucky to get a replacement amp in or out of warranty with a Pro Sub. Still their service has always been outstanding. Yeah I know shipping out a 5 buck tweeter or 15 buck crossover isn't a whole lot of coin do that 50 times a day and you get outstanding service for the average Joe with this hobby.

 

[TechHDS]

You think he's really Pumbaa?

Define, 'Pumbaa', please do. ( glowers) or should I. . "Does Mr. Wallace look like a Bi..h? to You? Say What One more Time I Double Down Dare You!".. Or get "Niedermeyer he's a sneaky little s*** " just like . Before Yous all get put on "Double Secret Probation" this site reminds me of "Animal House".

Mike

 

[TechHDS]

Selling your Polk and Emotiva and letting us spend your money on new toys?

We love doing that.

But then you won't have any reasons to post on those Polk and EMO forums anymore.

Will be fun watching you debate and trying to decide which route to go - AVR vs Pre-pro.

If my brothers, sister, or parents asked me which one I recommend, I would say try to get a new Denon X3400 on sale from Fry's, Newegg, or Electronic Expo for around $550.

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/denon-avr-x3400h-549-w-free-shipping.110587/#post-1242043

I told one of my friends that.

Then he asked, "Which one do you use?"

I said, "Denon AVP-A1HDCI, ATI AT3005, and ATI AT2005".

He looked very confused and said, "Oh, okay."

Doesn't get any better with your post. You do know by posting a poll on your Thread it pretty much left the door wide open for comments for facts, specs, graph posting and an occasional engineer joke with a few commercial breaks in between. lol. Really, You believe I need to go put out some fire's huh? .

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Doesn't get any better with your post. You do know by posting a poll on your Thread it pretty much left the door wide open for comments for facts, specs, graph posting and an occasional engineer joke with a few commercial breaks in between. lol. Really, You believe I need to go put out some fire's huh? .

Starting forum fires is so much more fun (evil laugh).

I guess it's not too surprising that most audiophiles are voting that separates simply sound better than AVRs.

Anthem Pre-pro > Anthem AVR
Marantz Pre-pro > Marantz AVR
etc.

 

[TechHDS]

Starting forum fires is so much more fun (evil laugh).

I guess it's not too surprising that most audiophiles are voting that separates simply sound better than AVRs.

Anthem Pre-pro > Anthem AVR
Marantz Pre-pro > Marantz AVR
etc.

In some setups sure a AVR couldn't compete with separates. Even with separates only, make One mistake with mismatching gear and you blew a wad of cash.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

In some setups sure a AVR couldn't compete with separates. Even with separates only, make One mistake with mismatching gear and you blew a wad of cash.

Speaking of "mismatch", I've seen guys spend $5-6K on separates and $1-2K on speakers thinking that the electronics will somehow make their speakers sound like 10K.

 

[TechHDS]

Speaking of "mismatch", I've seen guys spend $5-6K on separates and $1-2K on speakers thinking that the electronics will somehow make their speakers sound like 10K.

I get the pun, did love my LSi-15's. Even with the inferior 8 inch woofer (Sub), Polks famous power port couldn't even compensate for it. Good speaker concept and design. Cheaping out on the crossover didn't help either. WIth a little tweaking with EQ, and a good separate sub, LSi-15's can give just about any entry level audiophile speaker run for its money. Price paid was a good Value at the time of purchase. With a Good Pre-Pro unit or AVR, who knows?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

In terms of separate amps, is there a better value amp (price/performance) than the Monolith 200W x 7Ch Amp for $1300 B-Stock/5YR ATI Warranty ?

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=18682

In addition to the ATI-clone amps, Monolith also has bookshelf speakers and THX-Ultra Certified subwoofers. I wonder if they will have a pre-pro next?

 

[Irvrobinson]

I wonder if they will have a pre-pro next?

Speakers and amps are easy compared to pre-pros. Only AVRs are more difficult.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Speakers and amps are easy compared to pre-pros. Only AVRs are more difficult.

True.

So you don't think they could get someone to make them a Pre-pro?

I'm thinking that if they could somehow manage that, they could sell people the entire Monolith Audio System - Pre-pro, Amp, Speakers, Subwoofers, and all the wires/cables and accessories.

For example, could they somehow get Denon to make them an equivalent of the $800 DN-700AVP Pre-pro for home theater use?

It's really basic, but it has XLR connectors, HDMI, DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD.

Just remove that rack-mount kit, the "DENON" name and the silly "AV Receiver" label and put the "Monolith" name on there.


I think for guys who want a more simple design (no Audyssey, no EQ, no DSP), this $800 Pre-pro is a good option.

http://denonpro.com/products/view3/dn-700avp

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1367639-REG/denon_dn_700avp_a_v_surround_pre_amplifier_120v_230v.html

 

[RichB]

^ Outlaw has a new 976 7.2 processor which is HDMI 2.0b (Dolby Vision) compliant:

https://www.outlawaudio.com/products/976.html

In the old days, there was a number of brands sharing the same implementation and there was a processor "clones" article. It is possible, that Monoprice could do a 7.2 processor as well. It depends on whether Outlaw paid for exclusivity.

- Rich

 

[Irvrobinson]

True.

So you don't think they could get someone to make them a Pre-pro?

Maybe, but how much confidence would you have buying a pre-pro from MA versus speakers and amps? I doubt they could get one of the big guys to do it for them, because why would they? Create their own lower-margin competition? (It would have to be lower margin, or MA couldn't price it lower without giving it away themselves.) Looking at the little guys, like Outlaw and Emotiva (are there other little guys?), people who have bought pre-pros from them have done a lot of whining and complaining, and I should know, since I'm one of them.

Think about how support would work. You have problem, so you call MA, and they contact their supplier? On a product that's bound to need support sooner or later I'd rather buy from the source of the design.

I suppose anything is possible, and now that I've posted this I wouldn't be surprised if MA announced a pre-pro or an AVR and makes me look silly, but I wouldn't consider it and I'm pretty thrifty when it comes to HT technology.

 

[M Code]

The challenge in sourcing a pre-amp/surround processor is significant $ for tooling/development and sales qty.. Unlike a speaker or power amplifier, a pre-amp/processor has extensive software and multiple required certifications. Another downside is that the technologies are changing rapidly, so even if a less known brand finds a tentative source typically the subject product delivery is pushed out and newer technologies have already been introduced by the major brands... Making the previous generation of technologies worth much less..

Just my $0.02...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Maybe, but how much confidence would you have buying a pre-pro from MA versus speakers and amps? I doubt they could get one of the big guys to do it for them, because why would they? Create their own lower-margin competition? (It would have to be lower margin, or MA couldn't price it lower without giving it away themselves.) Looking at the little guys, like Outlaw and Emotiva (are there other little guys?), people who have bought pre-pros from them have done a lot of whining and complaining, and I should know, since I'm one of them.

Think about how support would work. You have problem, so you call MA, and they contact their supplier? On a product that's bound to need support sooner or later I'd rather buy from the source of the design.

I suppose anything is possible, and now that I've posted this I wouldn't be surprised if MA announced a pre-pro or an AVR and makes me look silly, but I wouldn't consider it and I'm pretty thrifty when it comes to HT technology.

Yeah, good points.

Well, if I didn't want all those EQ, DSP, Features, and amps of AVR, I think I would want something like the $800 Denon DN-700AVP.

http://denonpro.com/products/view3/dn-700avp

 

[RichB]

The challenge in sourcing a pre-amp/surround processor is significant $ for tooling/development and sales qty.. Unlike a speaker or power amplifier, a pre-amp/processor has extensive software and multiple required certifications. Another downside is that the technologies are changing rapidly, so even if a less known brand finds a tentative source typically the subject product delivery is pushed out and newer technologies have already been introduced by the major brands... Making the previous generation of technologies worth much less..

Just my $0.02...

Or the tooling required for a faceplate. This is a good argument for affordable options like the Outlaw. Emotiva is designing in user replaceable HDMI boards and promises a HDMI 2.1 board for their new processors and receiver.

That promise needs validation that can be provided when their current HDMI 2.0b V3 HDMI board becomes available for the XMC-1 Gen 2. I cannot fathom the product naming though. The new processor will be called the XMC-1 Gen 3. If Apple were to do this, they would be selling an iPhone-1 Gen X.

- Rich

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

^ Outlaw has a new 976 7.2 processor which is HDMI 2.0b (Dolby Vision) compliant:

https://www.outlawaudio.com/products/976.html

In the old days, there was a number of brands sharing the same implementation and there was a processor "clones" article. It is possible, that Monoprice could do a 7.2 processor as well. It depends on whether Outlaw paid for exclusivity.

- Rich

The Outlaw is kind of small looking - about 4.5" tall vs 7" tall on the Denon. The Outlaw also has a bunch of EQ and DSP, which is not as simplistic as the Denon AVP, which has none (tailoring to the less-is-more crowd ).

I think the Denon AVP looks a lot more "high-end" compared to the Outlaw.