I'm not sure I can read Stereophile any longer, even for JA's measurements

[Irvrobinson]

Irv, you're missing the point (mine at least), I'm just trying to see what the folks here deem as 'high end' and not trying to point a figure. Perhaps we (I) should't highjack this thread and start another to see if will get any traction .....

I started this thread to talk about a fool who thinks power cables make an audible difference, and an editor who clearly knows better, yet runs his publication as if it's a tabloid.

I don't know about you guys, but I like well-made products with great fit and finish and feel and mechanical integrity, and sometimes that costs a lot. Sometimes I'm willing to pay to for quality (full custom furniture, for example), and sometimes not (my Casio resin watch). I think if someone wants a power cable that looks and feels like jewelry, I say go for it. Some of them do look and feel really cool. I only have a problem with a contradictory publication that on the one hand pushes measurements and on the other asserts the mystical properties of conductors.

Since I moved to SoCal, every day when I exit I-405 on my way to the office I get to look at the Audioquest building off to the right. Perhaps that repeated vision is affecting my state of mind. ;-)

 

[shadyJ]

Yeah, that's me. $28K worth of speakers purchased just as status symbols. They go with my $12 watch.

And this whole discussion about high-end audio being a waste of resources. I know, let's all get back to nature, sell all of our stuff, join a commune, and grow our own pot and radishes. You don't need subwoofers for folk music either, so focusing on that'll save some resources too.

Y'all have gone off the rails.

oh puh-lease! I am not saying all high-end audio are merely status symbols. There is a big difference between someone who buys Revels and takes the time and care to set them up well in a good environment where they get used frequently versus a setup like this:

.. that looks pretty and expensive but is riddled with problems.

 

[Mikado463]

I started this thread to talk about a fool who thinks power cables make an audible difference, and an editor who clearly knows better, yet runs his publication as if it's a tabloid.

I don't know about you guys, but I like well-made products with great fit and finish and feel and mechanical integrity, and sometimes that costs a lot. Sometimes I'm willing to pay to for quality (full custom furniture, for example), and sometimes not (my Casio resin watch). I think if someone wants a power cable that looks and feels like jewelry, I say go for it. Some of them do look and feel really cool. I only have a problem with a contradictory publication that on the one hand pushes measurements and on the other asserts the mystical properties of conductors.

Since I moved to SoCal, every day when I exit I-405 on my way to the office I get to look at the Audioquest building off to the right. Perhaps that repeated vision is affecting my state of mind. ;-)

Irv, wire is without question the most controversial component in this crazy hobby of ours, I see the debate continuing forever ........

 

[shadyJ]

Irv, wire is without question the most controversial component in this crazy hobby of ours, I see the debate continuing forever ........

It's only a controversial component in la-la-land, but for sober people, it is a settled issue.

 

[Mikado463]

It's only a controversial component in la-la-land, but for sober people, it is a settled issue.

LOL, I was completely sober when a demo was performed on IC's and a discernible difference was heard. The point being made is that wire 'can be made' to influence the sound, I'm not saying it's right.

 

[lovinthehd]

Ok lovin, now we're getting somewhere, I agree with your sentence. I will add that a large segment of the 'high end' crowd assumes that one needs to spend copious amounts of $$ to legitimize what they believe to be a better piece of gear (sonically speaking). While this may be true (to a point) with speakers, what drives me nuts to see is big $$$ put into ones speakers only to have a room that is an acoustical nightmare.

Oh I agree with you here. I constantly see pics of badly placed expensive gear in bad rooms. Then talking about tweaks like different cables to "tune" it. High end has a lot of crazy in it.

 

[Mikado463]

Then talking about tweaks like different cables to "tune" it.

oh man, you nailed here .......It drives me bananas when folks talk about 'tuning their kit via cables', I just wanna gag over that one !!

High end has a lot of crazy in it.

without doubt...... an understatement !

 

[Beave]

Stereophile positions itself as if it is helping its readers, but it's actually grossly misleading its readers and only helping its advertisers. It's a total sellout that will backfire, if it hasn't already done so. They're desperate to keep the high end industry alive, but the irony is that their embrace of so much quackery is helping to hasten the demise of high end audio, IMO.

 

[shadyJ]

Stereophile positions itself as if it is helping its readers, but it's actually grossly misleading its readers and only helping its advertisers. It's a total sellout that will backfire, if it hasn't already done so. They're desperate to keep the high end industry alive, but the irony is that their embrace of so much quackery is helping to hasten the demise of high end audio, IMO.

The shame of it is that by including some good measurements, they are still much more useful than most other audio magazines. I don't even know of any other audio magazine that isn't pro-audio oriented that has measurements aside from soundstage.

 

[lovinthehd]

LOL, I was completely sober when a demo was performed on IC's and a discernible difference was heard. The point being made is that wire 'can be made' to influence the sound, I'm not saying it's right.

Difference means squat really. Especially with anecdotes like this.

 

[Beave]

The shame of it is that by including some good measurements, they are still much more useful than most other audio magazines. I don't even know of any other audio magazine that isn't pro-audio oriented that has measurements aside from soundstage.

I totally agree. I refuse to subscribe for reasons given above by everybody else, but I do admit to looking at his measurements and being grateful for them. In fact, I think if the magazine really wanted to do a service for its readers instead of its advertisers, they would spend much more time & energy & page space showing speaker measurements for more speakers, and far less time & energy & page space on the absurd BS some of the writers spout.

I'd like to see 5 or 10 speakers measured by JA in each issue. I'd subscribe if they did that.

 

[lovinthehd]

I totally agree. I refuse to subscribe for reasons given above by everybody else, but I do admit to looking at his measurements and being grateful for them. In fact, I think if the magazine really wanted to do a service for its readers instead of its advertisers, they would spend much more time & energy & page space showing speaker measurements for more speakers, and far less time & energy & page space on the absurd BS some of the writers spout.

I'd like to see 5 or 10 speakers measured by JA in each issue. I'd subscribe if they did that.

Even better I'd be interested in seeing the conclusions after listening tests of correlation of what they heard to what was measured by a panel of at least three different team members....and not necessarily reviewers.

 

[shadyJ]

I totally agree. I refuse to subscribe for reasons given above by everybody else, but I do admit to looking at his measurements and being grateful for them. In fact, I think if the magazine really wanted to do a service for its readers instead of its advertisers, they would spend much more time & energy & page space showing speaker measurements for more speakers, and far less time & energy & page space on the absurd BS some of the writers spout.

I'd like to see 5 or 10 speakers measured by JA in each issue. I'd subscribe if they did that.

Even better I'd be interested in seeing the conclusions after listening tests of correlation of what they heard to what was measured by a panel of at least three different team members....and not necessarily reviewers.

Lol, do you guys have any idea how much work that would be? If they did that it would be a quarterly magazine at the most.

The sad truth is that people who care about measurements are not a large fraction of their readership- or ANY audio magazines' readership. Hell, a lot of people who visit Audioholics do not really understand the measurements, lets alone publications that place less emphasis on the science. Forget Spin-o-rama charts and polar maps, I have found a lot of people do not get basic frequency response graphs. But this is not a slight on these people, they just haven't been taught their meaning. We need to do more to educate would-be audio enthusiasts. We need to explain all of these graphs in terms that make it easy to understand them.

 

[Beave]

I remember that JA once said that it takes him about a working day to do the measurements for a speaker.

If he's too busy traveling the country, going to shows, and visiting high end dealers and manufacturers, then maybe he could hire/train somebody who can do the tests?

It's almost my bedtime and I'm dreaming already!

 

[Irvrobinson]

LOL, I was completely sober when a demo was performed on IC's and a discernible difference was heard. The point being made is that wire 'can be made' to influence the sound, I'm not saying it's right.

It's true, capacitance, for example, can affect frequency response. Any comparison should always be prefaced by "well-designed". Tube amps can sound different, but that's because the technology is inferior and their output impedance can make them interact with some speakers.

Regardless, this post was really about power cables, which are different animals altogether than analog interconnects.

 

[panteragstk]

I'd love to get one of these fancy power cables and cut it apart to see what it's actually made of. I know the spec sheet will tell me, but I'd like to see it for myself.

Anyone know of a site that debunks audio myths like this (other than Audioholics of course).

I'd love for @gene to get his hands on one just to debunk stupid stuff like this.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd love to get one of these fancy power cables and cut it apart to see what it's actually made of. I know the spec sheet will tell me, but I'd like to see it for myself.

Anyone know of a site that debunks audio myths like this (other than Audioholics of course).

I'd love for @gene to get his hands on one just to debunk stupid stuff like this.

Maybe ars technica? archimago blogspot? Who would consider this a worthy product to take seriously, though?

 

[panteragstk]

Maybe ars technica? archimago blogspot? Who would consider this a worthy product to take seriously, though?

Agreed. I wouldn't say it's worthy of taking seriously, but it'd be interesting to see someone try to hear or measure something out of it since I don't think it's been done. At least not that I've been able to find. Everything seems to be anecdotal.

 

[sfseay]

Most people that don’t like after market power cords have never heard them or can’t afford them.

 

[lovinthehd]

Most people that don’t like after market power cords have never heard them or can’t afford them.

How about people who buy expensive power cords believe they sound different instead? Which one did Samsung tell you to use with that new ML585? How about for the LuminS1? Which expensive after market power cords are the best sounding?