Yamaha RX-A3070 vs RX-Z9 did I make a mistake ?

[JOHN FICKEL]

Hello, I still have a Yamaha RX-Z9 and love it. However , I got the upgrade bug and with everyone talking about how lossless audio was so much better than lossy I got the 3070 and I have been disappointed to say the least. First the unit is setup correct, I have all my speakers setup small and set to 80hz! The distances are set using a laser measuring unit. Also level is done with Spl meter. No eq is used set to through. I even bought a OPPO 203 so I new for sure I was getting DTS-MA. I have a DTS DEMO disc and I think CORE DTS sounds better or the same! I have a 5.2 no Atmos. I do like the music enhancer but it seems u have to have it on or it sounds lifeless for music , what does everyone think ? Core DTS is only compressed to a point that the average person will never be able tell the difference ? PLEASE HELP

 

[Leemix]

I dont have Yamaha but its usually a good idea to use the auto setup features before possibly tweaking the setup. Personally i find dts/dd master is a bit more calm and natural sounding then dts/dd but its not a huge difference and the sound mix quality matters a lot more. Are you sure the dts demo disc is master and not normal dts, does it show on the Yamaha display what format/decoding you are using?


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[JOHN FICKEL]

Yea it’s a DTS store demo DVD. It says DTS Master. And my 3070 does say DTS-MA. I Purchased the OPPO, because I’ve learned that my PS4 does not output DTS master or true HD

 

[Leemix]

The oppo is an excellent player, but im not familiar enough with the Yamahas so think you will need help from someone who is. There might be some threads about one or both recievers with some info on differences in sound or setup. Is the system set up exactly like it was with the older receiver? If not that difference might be bigger then master /no master versions


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[JOHN FICKEL]

I ran YPAO yes on both units and did a commonsense doublecheck , checked my distances with a laser measure, checked all my levels with an SPL meter on both units, EQ is not used or turned off

 

[PENG]

Ypao can do a better job than your laser and SPL meter. Distance is not exactly the physical distance.

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

Ok I will rerun , Gene has always said Check those settings with those tools but that may be for older units

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

Ypao can do a better job than your laser and SPL meter. Distance is not exactly the physical distance.

now I know that to be true for SUBS, but does that hold true for all other speakers?

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

Hard to quantify “lifeless.” Do you mean reduced dynamics? What speakers are you using?

I have a Z9 – it’s one fine unit (I don’t use YPAO). Maybe lossless ain’t all the great after all!

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[PENG]

now I know that to be true for SUBS, but does that hold true for all other speakers?

I would say yes, unless you have satellite speakers that don't have much low frequency response and in that case measuring tape/laser probably would do as good a job if done carefully. As you alluded to, this may not be true for the older YPAO versions, but the newest 64-bit versions should be quite good in figuring out the distance/delay accurately.

 

[lovinthehd]

Curious, did you use the analog or digital output of the Oppo 203? Differences between the lossless and lossy codecs IME are subtle and can be hard to compare directly as well...

 

[PENG]

Hello, I still have a Yamaha RX-Z9 and love it. However , I got the upgrade bug and with everyone talking about how lossless audio was so much better than lossy I got the 3070 and I have been disappointed to say the least. First the unit is setup correct, I have all my speakers setup small and set to 80hz! The distances are set using a laser measuring unit. Also level is done with Spl meter. No eq is used set to through. I even bought a OPPO 203 so I new for sure I was getting DTS-MA. I have a DTS DEMO disc and I think CORE DTS sounds better or the same! I have a 5.2 no Atmos. I do like the music enhancer but it seems u have to have it on or it sounds lifeless for music , what does everyone think ? Core DTS is only compressed to a point that the average person will never be able tell the difference ? PLEASE HELP

IIRC, you have some big Klipsch speakers with sensitivities in the 90's right? If so, it is hard to believe the 3070 would sound lifeless or any worse than the RX-Z9. No doubt the RX-Z9 is more powerful, but power that is not used would make no difference. The 3070 most likely has better distortions and SN specs, so when used well below it's power limit it should perform as well as or better than the RX-Z9.

 

[lovinthehd]

Also what are your speakers and subs? That's where the magic is, not the difference between two avrs.

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

I have RF-7ii and RC-64ii with 4 RS-62’s. With two R-115sw.

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

I’m using the HDMI OUT to my RX-A3070

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

Hard to quantify “lifeless.” Do you mean reduced dynamics? What speakers are you using?

I have a Z9 – it’s one fine unit (I don’t use YPAO). Maybe lossless ain’t all the great after all!

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

The new receivers have a lot of great features but I’m not really digging lossless so far

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

IIRC, you have some big Klipsch speakers with sensitivities in the 90's right? If so, it is hard to believe the 3070 would sound lifeless or any worse than the RX-Z9. No doubt the RX-Z9 is more powerful, but power that is not used would make no difference. The 3070 most likely has better distortions and SN specs, so when used well below it's power limit it should perform as well as or better than the RX-Z9.

Yea I have all top Klipsch. Most of the speakers are 98 plus sensitivity

 

[lovinthehd]

Could simply be expectations exceeded reality?

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

Could simply be expectations exceeded reality?

Yea probably

 

[lovinthehd]

Yea probably

It's not that hard to do. Have you worked on speaker placement and the room to maximize those aspects?