Yamaha RX-A3070 vs RX-Z9 did I make a mistake ?

[JOHN FICKEL]

Yes, my speaker placement is perfect! Nothing in front of speakers. Everything is just they way this website recommended. Bass management 80hz and small for everything. Subs are placed the way they were on my Z9. In opposing corners which works great and not firing at one another. Both can not be placed on front wall. Even if i could I prefer opposing corners .

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

Also I’m using a McIntosh MC-252 on my RF-7ii’s so the 3070 does not have to power those. I even have a Yamaha MX-1 in perfect condition, i’m contemplating using that as a surround amplifier

 

[lovinthehd]

Yes, my speaker placement is perfect! Nothing in front of speakers. Everything is just they way this website recommended. Bass management 80hz and small for everything. Subs are placed the way they were on my Z9. In opposing corners which works great and not firing at one another. Both can not be placed on front wall. Even if i could I prefer opposing corners .

Perfect speaker placement, eh? Show us.

Subs in opposing corners can work well. Doesn't matter if they "fire" at one another, tho.

Just what do you feel is missing with your setup?

 

[-Jim-]

Hi John,

I'm certain most audioholics folks who do an A/B comparison will easily hear the difference between Lossy DTS, or Dolby, and their new HD lossless codecs.

I too was a skeptic and kept buying Concert DVDs (my passion) long after the world moved to BluRays with these new codecs. But once I heard the lossless concerts, I started to retire my old non-HDMI HT Receivers, and moved to only HD capable units. (And BluRays!)

I'm thinking you haven't got the media stream from your Oppo set correctly, or something isn't set right on your new Yamaha receiver.

I have Denon and Sony Receivers (2 of each) but no Yamaha. Like said earlier, perhaps someone familiar with your receiver will chime in and walk you through it. Don't give up! The difference is definitely worth the bother.

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

When I had one in the left corner of my room and one in the back right corner firing at one another YPAO could not balance the subs correctly, meaning one would be -5 and the other +5 now I have them in such a way so frequencies do not cancel

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

Hi John,

I'm certain most audioholics folks who do an A/B comparison will easily hear the difference between Lossy DTS, or Dolby, and their new HD lossless codecs.

I too was a skeptic and kept buying Concert DVDs (my passion) long after the world moved to BluRays with these new codecs. But once I heard the lossless concerts, I started to retire my old non-HDMI HT Receivers, and moved to only HD capable units. (And BluRays!)

I'm thinking you haven't got the media stream from your Oppo set correctly, or something isn't set right on your new Yamaha receiver.

I have Denon and Sony Receivers (2 of each) but no Yamaha. Like said earlier, perhaps someone familiar with your receiver will chime in and walk you through it. Don't give up! The difference is definitely worth the bother.

Ok cool. My Oppo has secondary audio off and set to bitstream like Gene said. My 3070 does say DTS-MA. Maybe it’s the demo disc. That’s probably my problem I don’t think it’s set up incorrectly I feel like maybe my demo disk sucks

 

[-Jim-]

You described your demo disk as a DTS DVD. My understanding is the HD codecs are only available on BluRay disks. Now I could be wrong (I don't know everything) but it wouldn't hurt if you got another disk (Clapton - Slowhand at 70 - Live at the Royal Albert Hall is a good one). For test purposes only , of course.

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

Yea it was a dealer disc only. It definitely does DTS—master But it seems to be a reg dvd. Now I have used Skull Island and listened to that scene when they first encounter king Kong and that was in DTS -MA, And didn’t sound any better. Let me ask you what differences are you hearing in your movies/ concert Blu-rays ? Is it supposed to be louder? Than core DTS?

 

[Leemix]

Same volume but a little bit more natural sounding/ richer sound, its not much and i think the difference is slightly bigger on dolby digital/dd master soundtracks compared to dts ones. This is with Marantz av7005, parasound a31 and Oppo 105/203 BD players


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[AcuDefTechGuy]

...everyone talking about how lossless audio was so much better than lossy...

Not everyone. I'm not one of them.

I've compared many times between DTS vs DTS-HD MA on the SAME Blu-ray discs and I can never tell the difference.

The only time I was able to tell the difference was when I was comparing different disc versions of the same movie. And even then, I'm not sure if it were just different volume levels.

Bottom line, in this hobby, unless you've actually experienced the same results, take all opinions (how things sound so much better or different) with a huge grain of salt.

If you don't find that there is a significant difference or improvement, it may be that there isn't one, and there is nothing wrong with your system.

Now if you are comparing the exact same disc, audio system, sound mode, and volume level, I don't see a reason why the old Z9 would sound better than the new A3070.

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

True I think I was expecting too much, in the Audioholics videos Gene mentions more than once how lossless is way better than compressed audio. So I was just kind of curious why I’m not hearing that same difference with Klipsch speakers and a McIntosh amp. And everything is set up the way it supposed to be set up with bass management and leveled and distances are accurate. I do not use any equalization I keep it set to through, I don’t see any advantage and just like they’ve mentioned many times on this website before, EQ above the rooms transition frequency is just a waste

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

So basically all these multi point multi position is not even worth doing Unless you’re going to do what Gene did and EQ below the rooms transition frequency

 

[PENG]

Ok cool. My Oppo has secondary audio off and set to bitstream like Gene said. My 3070 does say DTS-MA. Maybe it’s the demo disc. That’s probably my problem I don’t think it’s set up incorrectly I feel like maybe my demo disk sucks

John, there is no such thing as DTS-MA. It is either DTS, or DTS-HD, that are lossy, or DTS-HD MSTR (or DTS-HD-MA) that is lossless, so are you sure you saw DTS-MA, or it actually was displaying DTS-HD?

Typically, DTS-HD and DTS-HD MSTR/MA are found on BR disks only. If your AVR is displaying DTS-HD MSTR (like Denon/Marantz), or DTS-HD-MA (I don't have a Yamaha on hand to confirm either), try to change it the audio format selection to see if it would switch to DTS-HD MSTR (or MA). It should, if it is on the disk.

 

[Leemix]

True I think I was expecting too much, in the Audioholics videos Gene mentions more than once how lossless is way better than compressed

I havent seen the video but was he talking about lossy vs lossless in multi channel formats and/or stereo? its much easier to hear the difference on 2 channel material.




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[JOHN FICKEL]

I will check tonight. I’m sure it said DTS-MA I’ll check again. Check out the video about when to upgrade. He says that lossless audio is quantum leaps ahead of compressed audio

 

[PENG]

I will check tonight. I’m sure it said DTS-MA I’ll check again. Check out the video about when to upgrade. He says that lossless audio is quantum leaps ahead of compressed audio

People tend to exaggerate things. I find little difference between DD, and DD+, or between DTS and DTS-HD etc. DTS-HDMA does sound more transparent in general depending on the contents but hardly quantum leaps from the lossy DTS and DTS-HD, and I have pretty decent electronics and speakers so don't think my equipment are to blame.

 

[-Jim-]

Hi Gents,

I'm no purist, and not one of those who can hear sounds that Dogs and Bats can. I'm just a regular guy with a decent ear for music. My experience with these HD Codecs is totally in regards to BluRay Concert Disks when compared to the same Concert on DVD in 5.1 with its regular old DD, or DTS.

I have bought multiple BluRays to get an HD lossless soundtrack- even though I already have the Concert on DVD. This is not hocus pocus, but some folks cannot hear the difference, and therefore shouldn't waste their hard earned $$ chasing a phantom they'll never grasp. But you need to hear both before you decide! (Get the setup right!)

It falls into the same category as FLAC versus MP3s. Some folks can't hear the difference, and they should stop chasing that rainbow too!

Anyway, once I heard the difference on Concerts, I decided to move any new Disk purchases to BluRay (3D - if available as I have one TV that can handle that format; and my son & I like to watch Super Hero Movies together in 3D - but that's another story. I have 3 HT systems - each with a 55 inch LED LCD TV. 4 if you count the one at our summer cabin.) So I don't have any movies in both DVD and BluRay to compare. I can only assume using the HD Codecs are better.

If I bought a new receiver and disk player, and after having the right source material, and correct setup => so I was certain I was listening to sound via a HD Codec => and then I couldn't hear any difference with decent (not terribly high end) speakers: I would pack them up and return them as there is no reason to keep them.

And so should you!

 

[PENG]

It falls into the same category as FLAC versus MP3s. Some folks can't hear the difference, and they should stop chasing that rainbow too!

I think those folks can't hear the difference because of many possible reasons, below are two examples.

1. The MP3s they used for comparisons are of the best quality in terms of the original recording/mastering, and also the kbps, e.g. 96 vs 320, big difference!

2. The flac used may be from poor original source, the format is lossless, but lossless from a lossy or poorly recorded source will not sound as good as MP3s made from good quality originals.

Everything being equal, I highly doubt anyone cannot tell the difference between the lossless flac, alac, wma formats and MP3s.

It could be the same, to certain extents for the audibility of the difference in resolutions between DTS-HDMA and DTS but again, I find the difference between DD and DD+; and between DTS and DTS-HD are not always audible especially between Netflix's DD and DD+. However, it is not hard to tell the difference between DTS and DTS-HDMA, though that still depends on the specific contents. As you mentioned, concert disks would be the obvious choice for comparison purposes, and I would say the difference may be more obvious if live orchestral classical music recordings are used.

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

And that’s probably my problem I listen to death metal on Pandora, I pay for Pandora premium services one thing I do like about the new receiver is the MP3 music and ehancer although if you turn all these things off it sounds flat to me. I don’t remember the Z9 ever sounding flat without any BS processing

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

I’ve tried listening to skull island with the lossless format and didn’t sound any different to me either compared to core DTS