KEF Reference3 vs b&w 804 D3

[Turk]

The size of the voice coil and spider are also far more robust. You get what you pay for.

Lol. I would hope so paying 14k instead of 5k

 

[KenM10759]

That magnet on the back of the woofer looks like double the size on the reference Unfortunately no one carries that line around Minneapolis.

I checked the KEF USA website (not the KEF Direct one) and there's 14 dealers within 100 miles of Minneaplois MN.

 

[KenM10759]

Lol. I would hope so paying 14k instead of 5k

No argument there.

 

[Turk]

I checked the KEF USA website (not the KEF Direct one) and there's 14 dealers within 100 miles of Minneaplois MN.

None of them have the reference. I have seen everything from the q to blades but no reference for some reason

 

[<eargiant]

View attachment 23736
Tested the b&w 804 d3 vs kef R900 in music today. The b&w has so much more detail it is crazy. The one thing I did like about the kef is the sound stage and depth to them. The b&w definitely win in the category of detail and the amount of “blackness” behind each instrument. I’ll be able to test them hopefully this week with movies which is the main reason I got the kef’s In the first place.

Yes, that "“blackness” behind each instrument", I know exactly what you're talking about. Wonderful isn't it?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yes, that "“blackness” behind each instrument", I know exactly what you're talking about. Wonderful isn't it?

Maybe the big treble peak is B&W’s secret weapon.

More treble = more blackness crazy detail?

 

[<eargiant]

Maybe the big treble peak is B&W’s secret weapon.

More treble = more blackness crazy detail?

A "secret" it is because and accentuated treble should give you less "blackness" yet it doesn't. What you get is instruments hanging in real space with the transducer disappearing. Too bad you didn't experience that when you owned yours.

I've heard a lot of speakers with accentuated highs and a lot of speakers with subdued highs but few speakers that can reproduce music realistically with that inky "blackness" the way the 800D series does.

 

[Beave]

Is it chocolatey blackness or more like notes of mocha?

 

[Beave]

Turk, how are you doing your comparison? Quick switching or manually swapping out speaker wire? Any attempts to level-match? Are you running both full-range?

 

[Art Vandelay]

I've heard a lot of speakers with accentuated highs and a lot of speakers with subdued highs but few speakers that can reproduce music realistically with that inky "blackness" the way the 800D series does.

Most likely due to the lower noise and distortion from the B&W drivers and enclosures.
The new D3 series really excels in that regard.

Fwiw, talking to a hi-fi retailer recently he said that many buyers of high end speakers do prefer a slightly tipped up treble. It's because many are forced to listen at levels lower than 'realistic' due to SPL limits imposed by 21st century existence in high density residential apartments. To our non-linear ears a slightly boosted treble will sound more natural at lower listening levels of course.

 

[<eargiant]

Is it chocolatey blackness or more like notes of mocha?

Not sure how Turk would describe the "blackness" he heard but IME it would not be akin to food at all.

If noise was light it would be more like being in a good darkroom with no lights on. Just a stark and noticeable void of a usual perception.

 

[Turk]

Turk, how are you doing your comparison? Quick switching or manually swapping out speaker wire? Any attempts to level-match? Are you running both full-range?

Full range with an a-b switch.

 

[Turk]

Not sure how Turk would describe the "blackness" he heard but IME it would not be akin to food at all.

If noise was light it would be more like being in a good darkroom with no lights on. Just a stark and noticeable void of a usual perception.

I would agree that it’s definitely not a food reference. I have heard a lot of different speakers and these are The only ones I have heard do this.

Just like you described it. There is a quietness or darkness around each instrument that makes it stand out.

I don’t think it’s in the treble at all because it’s in the whole range of the speaker.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Is it chocolatey blackness or more like notes of mocha?

I prefer frappucinno myself.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would agree that it’s definitely not a food reference. I have heard a lot of different speakers and these are The only ones I have heard do this.

Just like you described it. There is a quietness or darkness around each instrument that makes it stand out.

I don’t think it’s in the treble at all because it’s in the whole range of the speaker.

It sounds like you won't be happy with anything else except for the 804D.

Just add some great subwoofers, set the speakers to small, XO to 80Hz-120Hz (since you don't want to abuse your Diamond speakers too much), never go crazy on volume (again, you don't want to abuse your Diamonds) and you are set.

Back when I had the 802D2, I also set the speakers to Small, XO to 120Hz, and let my dual Subs do all the heavy bass abuse. No way I was taking any risks with my Diamonds.

 

[PENG]

Back when I had the 802D2, I also set the speakers to Small, XO to 120Hz, and let my dual Subs do all the heavy bass abuse. No way I was taking any risks with my Diamonds.

I doubt that would make much difference. If you look at the impedance curve, below 120 Hz is not as big an issue as above 120 Hz, like all to way to almost 1,000 Hz. He needs to sit much closer, otherwise he needs something that are designed to produce a lot more SPL.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I doubt that would make much difference. If you look at the impedance curve, below 120 Hz is not as big an issue as above 120 Hz, like all to way to almost 1,000 Hz. He needs to sit much closer, otherwise he needs something that are designed to produce a lot more SPL.

Let's say you're listening to some heavy bass rock music with a total SPL of 100dB.

You have 2 speakers and 2 subwoofers.

If you turn off the subwoofers, what do you think the total volume will be now?

Every case is different. But I did an experiment back when I had the KEF 201/2 and dual Funk 18.0 subs.

The song was "Six Feet Under" by The Woods. With everything on, I got a reading of 102dB on the SPL meter. Then I turned off the Subs and the reading was 87dB.

 

[PENG]

Let's say you're listening to some heavy bass rock music with a total SPL of 100dB.

You have 2 speakers and 2 subwoofers.

If you turn off the subwoofers, what do you think the total volume will be now?

Every case is different. But I did an experiment back when I had the KEF 201/2 and dual Funk 18.0 subs.

The song was "Six Feet Under" by The Woods. With everything on, I got a reading of 102dB on the SPL meter. Then I turned off the Subs and the reading was 87dB.

Great point, that I overlooked!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Great point, that I overlooked!

However, he did say that 90% of the use is for movies, not music.

So perhaps he doesn't need the blackness crazy diamond details for music.

He just needs butts-kicking-high-efficiency sound.

BTW, I didn't get any blackness crazy details when I had my B&W 802D2 using the ATI AT3002 amp and the Denon AVP-A1HDCI pre-pro.

Did you get any blackness crazy details when you listened to the 803D?

But I guess everyone hears differently.

 

[Turk]

However, he did say that 90% of the use is for movies, not music.

So perhaps he doesn't need the blackness crazy diamond details for music.

He just needs butts-kicking-high-efficiency sound.


BTW, I didn't get any blackness crazy details when I had my B&W 802D2 using the ATI AT3002 amp and the Denon AVP-A1HDCI pre-pro.

Did you get any blackness crazy details when you listened to the 803D?

But I guess everyone hears differently.

I’m definitely keeping the 804 for music and probably the kef for my movies. It’s to hard to give that up on music even if only 10%.

One thing I have noticed with the blackness of the 804 is for one the rotel amp works better then a few others I tried and I hate saying it because so many people fight over it a really good power conditioner. The 804 seems to show any imperfection in your system that most speakers will hide.

I have done several a-b test with my furman reference 20i and it’s a huge difference. Hands down with my conditioning equipment in it wins every time. Even my wife thinks it’s night and day and she could care less about anything AV wise. The power at my receptacle in the wall is about as perfect as you can get. New house, new transformer, only 2 houses on it, dedicated 20a circuit, whole house surge protector.