KEF Reference3 vs b&w 804 D3

[Dennis Murphy]

All of the publicly available NRC measurements are available on this page from SoundStage:
https://www.soundstage.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16&Itemid=140

Only two B&W speakers have been measured, and neither is an 800 series.

 

[Irvrobinson]

My Lexus LX570 has the Mark Levinson sound system, but while driving (wind noise, road noise, car noise), it might as well be a JBL system in a Toyota.

That's for sure. Personally, I think premium audio in vehicles is a waste of money. I have the B&O premium thing in my 2016 Audi (because I took a dealer-specified order-position, and was too late to drop the useless options from it, like the B&O and navigation), and unless I'm parked it is no better than the base "BMW Business" thing in my 2005 BMW X3. Tire noise kills the experience, and it's the same in a Tesla (though I don't own one, I have been in several). Wide low profile tires are the enemy of quiet.

 

[<eargiant]

All of the publicly available NRC measurements are available on this page from SoundStage:
https://www.soundstage.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16&Itemid=140

Only two B&W speakers have been measured, and neither is an 800 series.

Thanks. Will they be adding the Philharmonic BMR to that list anytime soon now that they've measured them?

 

[PENG]

Interesting, I always kinda felt that measurements were only valid when comparing those of the same tester/environment/protocol (and even speaker configuration) and your comments seems to support this.

Imagine two individuals that had never heard the BMR, one only reads the NRC graph and the other only reads your graph. They'd both argue endlessly as to how the speakers sound in real life (neither having ever heard them). This is why I like to look at graphs but always trust my ears first and foremost.

Quick question, if the hump in JAs measurements is due to the splicing of the near field measurement and flat speaker will always measure with a hump in the lower end, how can he get a "flat" line with the LSiM 703? Something doesn't jibe. Especially after knowing that they are heavy on the low end.

All in room plots are only good for the mic position, if you move even a few inches, the plots may look a little different, or very different. So aside from compare the NRC plots that are done in an anechoic chamber, you can't just "trust your ears" unless hear them in the same room with the speakers and you at the same positions. Harman uses a turntable to make it easy to compare speakers in the same position.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Thanks. Will they be adding the Philharmonic BMR to that list anytime soon now that they've measured them?

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I contracted privately with NRC. The plots I linked are all speakers that have been reviewed by SoundStage. They use the NRC for their measurements.

 

[Beave]

All of the publicly available NRC measurements are available on this page from SoundStage:
https://www.soundstage.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16&Itemid=140

Only two B&W speakers have been measured, and neither is an 800 series.

There are three other, newer speakers listed under "Bowers & Wilkins": The 684S2, 685S2, and 704S2.

 

[Beave]

I contracted privately with NRC. The plots I linked are all speakers that have been reviewed by SoundStage. They use the NRC for their measurements.

Can you share how much they charged?

Which measurements did you request? Dr. Toole said that the measurements shown on Soundstage are a subset of the full suite available.

And can/will you share their results for your BMRs?

 

[Turk]

Tested the b&w 804 d3 vs kef R900 in music today. The b&w has so much more detail it is crazy. The one thing I did like about the kef is the sound stage and depth to them. The b&w definitely win in the category of detail and the amount of “blackness” behind each instrument. I’ll be able to test them hopefully this week with movies which is the main reason I got the kef’s In the first place.

 

[KenM10759]

The fair comparison might be the KEF Reference 3 against those 804D3's, not the R series. Against the R900 series it should be the new 702D3, and they just might win too because the R series is on the verge of an update. That's evidenced by the sale of about 30% off right now, except for the R50 Atmos-enabled unit. I'm told that one is staying.

 

[Turk]

The fair comparison might be the KEF Reference 3 against those 804D3's, not the R series. Against the R900 series it should be the new 702D3, and they just might win too because the R series is on the verge of an update. That's evidenced by the sale of about 30% off right now, except for the R50 Atmos-enabled unit. I'm told that one is staying.

I 100% agree that the better comparison would be the reference series. I can’t get a hold of the reference where I could return them. Also I went for the R series mostly for movies and was worried that the reference series may give me the same issues that I had with the 804 d3

 

[KenM10759]

What kind of issues? The Reference 3 would simply give the more detailed highs and accurate midrange, a tauter bass than the R900. Soundstage is also deeper.

 

[Turk]

The fair comparison might be the KEF Reference 3 against those 804D3's, not the R series. Against the R900 series it should be the new 702D3, and they just might win too because the R series is on the verge of an update. That's evidenced by the sale of about 30% off right now, except for the R50 Atmos-enabled unit. I'm told that one is staying.

Where do you see them 30% off now? They are still normal price online. That would be interesting if they were going to release a new model

 

[Turk]

What kind of issues? The Reference 3 would simply give the more detailed highs and accurate midrange, a tauter bass than the R900. Soundstage is also deeper.

My woofers kept blowing out. I have a very large room at the moment and like to watch movies with a lot of dynamics’s.
Was talked about here.
https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/trouble-with-bowers-and-wilkins-804-d3.109926/

 

[KenM10759]

I recall now. Take a look at the difference between a KEF Reference 3 woofer and a KEF R700 woofer. I would say the R700 woofer looks similar to the 804D3 in terms of heft.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/724103-kef-owners-thread-454.html#post55777356

If that isn't a clean link, it's in the KEF Owner's thread, post number 13616.

 

[Art Vandelay]

My woofers kept blowing out. I have a very large room at the moment and like to watch movies with a lot of dynamics’s.
Was talked about here.
https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/trouble-with-bowers-and-wilkins-804-d3.109926/

Something doesn't add up. With a sub woofer you should be able to get all the SPL you need and then some. Crossing over at 80Hz should have eliminated all power issues.

Seems to me to be a bass management issue.

 

[KenM10759]

Where do you see them 30% off now? They are still normal price online. That would be interesting if they were going to release a new model

My dealer has them at those prices per KEF. I don't know why the prices haven't made it to their KEFDirect.com website, but all the dealers got notice from KEF about the sale.

 

[Turk]

Something doesn't add up. With a sub woofer you should be able to get all the SPL you need and then some. Crossing over at 80Hz should have eliminated all power issues.

Seems to me to be a bass management issue.

I think I figured out it was audyssey doing it around 100-200hz
I’m planning on using the b&w for music but wanted something that could keep up with movies.

 

[Turk]

I recall now. Take a look at the difference between a KEF Reference 3 woofer and a KEF R700 woofer. I would say the R700 woofer looks similar to the 804D3 in terms of heft.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/724103-kef-owners-thread-454.html#post55777356

If that isn't a clean link, it's in the KEF Owner's thread, post number 13616.

That magnet on the back of the woofer looks like double the size on the reference Unfortunately no one carries that line around Minneapolis.

 

[KenM10759]

The size of the voice coil and spider are also far more robust. You get what you pay for.