My cheaper Marantz vs my higher end stuff...

[ematthews]

The pre-outs are always live, so just plug the ATI in and unplug the main speakers.
Based on your signature it looks like you are running stereo or 3 channels anyway (no surround speakers declared).
The slim-line has a lower level of audyssey.
@AcuDefTechGuy He needs to have audyssey on in some fashion to use DynamicEQ, right?
If you don't like what Audyssey MultEQ (instead of XT or XT32) does, I think you can run "left and right bypass" which will result in audyssey being applied to the surrounds and sub.

I’m a big two channel or 2.1 audio only guy. Kind of reluctant to use an AvR in my audio system set up. Having trouble lately with my Parasound may push me to get some
Room correction. I am going to try my current Marantz 1506 as a test to see what happens before selling and changing it all up.

 

[lovinthehd]

You're right! I just got mixed up between Canadian and American prices.

At first I was thinking it was more like 10% against the 1200G, didn't actually realize there was a 1200GR now.

 

[lovinthehd]

I’m a big two channel or 2.1 audio only guy. Kind of reluctant to use an AvR in my audio system set up. Having trouble lately with my Parasound may push me to get some
Room correction. I am going to try my current Marantz 1506 as a test to see what happens before selling and changing it all up.

I think that will be a good test and you don't have to leave home

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The pre-outs are always live, so just plug the ATI in and unplug the main speakers.
Based on your signature it looks like you are running stereo or 3 channels anyway (no surround speakers declared).
The slim-line has a lower level of audyssey.
@AcuDefTechGuy He needs to have audyssey on in some fashion to use DynamicEQ, right?
If you don't like what Audyssey MultEQ (instead of XT or XT32) does, I think you can run "left and right bypass" which will result in audyssey being applied to the surrounds and sub.

Yes, I use Audyssey Bypass L/R since it allows Dynamic EQ.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So. After looking it appears I can use my Marantz NR1506 as a Preamp with my ATI amp. Is this correct? Just use the pre out right. I have never tried using an AVR as a preamp only. I know... I have been in this hobby for a while but appear more dumb than ever.

Correct. Just hook the pre-outs to the ATI and run Audyssey with the supplied microphone.

Afterward make sure Dynamic EQ is on, Dynamic Volume is off, and try out the 3 Audyssey choices:

Audyssey, Audyssey Flat, Audyssey Bypass L/R.

I use the Audyssey Bypass L/R. But you just use which sounds the best.

 

[sterling shoote]

You're right! I just got mixed up between Canadian and American prices.

Interesting that you bring my attention to the AudioTechnica turntable. I bought one this time last year for my mother-in-law. After setting it up at my home, I compared and contrasted it to my 40 year old Sony turntable and could not fault the AudioTechnica in any manner. Seems it gets the job done. But, my own interest in this turntable was soured when the tonearm clamp on the AudioTechnica suddenly broke off and I had to replace it, which was about a three week endeavor just to get the needed part from AudioTechnica's customer service department. Also, when the headshell was initially mounted to the tonearm the azimuth was off, requiring me to loosen and rotate the headshell clamp. There are other short comings about the player; and, while of no importance to my mother-in-law, they are of concern to me, which makes the Technics more inviting even at more than 5 times the cost. I do appreciate your thoughts about this. Thank you for the input.

 

[sterling shoote]

Seems the 1240 is more like 25% of the 1200GR price (or 75% less) fwiw. I'd still take the Technics personally if the budget didn't matter...just because I have an SL1200mk2 for the last 34 years.

What cartridge/s do you have a preference for? I have a spare Shure V15V-MR without stylus that I am thinking about using, buying for it a JICO SAS stylus with ruby cantilever. This would set me back about $300, but I've also thought about a few other carts at that price point. Thing is I have no means to audition any cartridge. My current turntable is fitted with the Shure as described with an original stylus and it delivers a sound that I like, that's to say I do not perceive any short comings.

 

[highfigh]

I’m a big two channel or 2.1 audio only guy. Kind of reluctant to use an AvR in my audio system set up. Having trouble lately with my Parasound may push me to get some
Room correction. I am going to try my current Marantz 1506 as a test to see what happens before selling and changing it all up.

What "trouble" are you having? You connected the sub to the actual sub output on the P5, then compared it to the Marantz by connecting the sub to the preamp output, which sends different voltage and decided that louder and warmer was better. You say the Marantz sounds warmer- is that a problem, or is one producing flatter response? Without testing, there's no way of knowing. You may prefer the Marantz, but it's likely that the Parasound is working normally. The "trouble" was caused by your comparison, possibly from a nagging, background thought from the volume control issue and now, you think you might want room correction.

If you moved your speakers for the first comparison, you can't be sure of what makes you think it's different because more than one thing changed. Changing something else in addition might not help- correct speaker placement in the room is a physical thing, not a design element nor should it be dictated by lifestyle, but they're generally the most common reason for where speakers end up. That leads to people designing equalization systems that don't universally cure all problems.

I would start by finding the best place for the speakers and come up with a way to make it repeatable if leaving there would cause problems with traffic flow, WAF, etc. That way, you can move them out of the way when they're not being used. Once that is done, compare the equipment and make your decision, but connect the sub correctly OR similarly- again, the sub out and pre out levels are different and that makes it impossible to say "all things being equal".

Bass level causes us to perceive the sound as 'louder', 'more dynamic' and 'more realistic' when one speaker system or setup has it and another doesn't. Loudness is measurable objectively, intensity is the perception that it may be louder. Listening tests aren't objective, so the variables need to be controlled and made smaller in order to make it unbiased.

All of this said, a bit of room correction can make a big difference, but it needs to be done right.

BTW- which SVS sub do you have? I was looking at their site and the DSP controlled by the app interests me.

 

[ematthews]

My SVS sub is the SB12-NSD
As far as trouble. Maybe that's the wrong word. My issue is sub volume when using the P5. I know its a different connection from the Marantz Pre out. And the P5 has the dedicated sub single wire with controls. When using the P5 on full range to the sub, or sub control off, and the volume at 50% on the SVS, the volume from the sub is much lower. Now, if you turn the sub control on the front of the P5 to max it will equal the volume of the Marantz pre out. Maybe that's just the way the P5 is designed. When sub control is set at 12:00 on the front of the P5 it reduces the current to the sub by half of the Marantz Pre out... To my ear.. Does that make sense??
To sum it up. When using the Marantz gear I have a much more room filling experience with the sub. The P5 doesn't have the same effect on playback.

 

[highfigh]

My SVS sub is the SB12-NSD
As far as trouble. Maybe that's the wrong word. My issue is sub volume when using the P5. I know its a different connection from the Marantz Pre out. And the P5 has the dedicated sub single wire with controls. When using the P5 on full range to the sub, or sub control off, and the volume at 50% on the SVS, the volume from the sub is much lower. Now, if you turn the sub control on the front of the P5 to max it will equal the volume of the Marantz pre out. Maybe that's just the way the P5 is designed. When sub control is set at 12:00 on the front of the P5 it reduces the current to the sub by half of the Marantz Pre out... To my ear.. Does that make sense??
To sum it up. When using the Marantz gear I have a much more room filling experience with the sub. The P5 doesn't have the same effect on playback.

It makes sense, but it's still not a balanced test, which would require that the voltage fed to the sub be equal, coming from both units. As I wrote, 'more' is perceived as 'better'- it's very common and hard to ignore.

Did you press the tone control bypass on the P5, or just set them to the neutral position?

The sub control, again, won't have the effect on the level as the Marantz because they aren't the same part. The link shows the difference between audio taper and linear taper potentiometers- linear describes the straight line and this kind causes the volume to increase more at a lower point in the control's rotation and it's the reason I wrote that the output voltage MUST be matched.

Forget the knob's position, it's ONLY the voltage that matters (not current). Our hearing isn't linear, BTW.

https://i.stack.imgur.com/SDIq8.jpg

 

[WineOfTheVeins]

OP, if you're comparing apples to apples, ie: same track, same hookups, all that, and the Marantz gear sounds better, why not sell the higher end stuff? I know I really enjoy my new Marantz CD6006, best sounding CD player I've heard. I can't attest to the build quality and reliability/longevity of Marantz yet, but if that isn't a concern, let your ears be the judge of who gets exiled and who stays. My 2¢.

 

[ematthews]

OP, if you're comparing apples to apples, ie: same track, same hookups, all that, and the Marantz gear sounds better, why not sell the higher end stuff? I know I really enjoy my new Marantz CD6006, best sounding CD player I've heard. I can't attest to the build quality and reliability/longevity of Marantz yet, but if that isn't a concern, let your ears be the judge of who gets exiled and who stays. My 2¢.

True. And I am learning after all these years that just because something reviews better and is more expensive doesn't mean it will be better and you will love it.

Side note. Can anyone tell me why for instance this two channel amp HAS THE SAME msrp an AVR that has a tone of options.
Marantz PM 14S1 vs
Marantz SR8012

My guess is just the quality of components used vs quantity.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Can anyone tell me why this two channel amp HAS THE SAME msrp as an AVR that has a ton of options?

Marantz PM 14S1 vs
Marantz SR8012

My guess is just the quality of components used vs quantity.

Economies of scale and probably higher-cost parts.

But again, only you can decide which one sounds better!

Higher cost does not guarantee better sound to your ears!

 

[Verdinut]

Interesting that you bring my attention to the AudioTechnica turntable. I bought one this time last year for my mother-in-law. After setting it up at my home, I compared and contrasted it to my 40 year old Sony turntable and could not fault the AudioTechnica in any manner. Seems it gets the job done. But, my own interest in this turntable was soured when the tonearm clamp on the AudioTechnica suddenly broke off and I had to replace it, which was about a three week endeavor just to get the needed part from AudioTechnica's customer service department. Also, when the headshell was initially mounted to the tonearm the azimuth was off, requiring me to loosen and rotate the headshell clamp. There are other short comings about the player; and, while of no importance to my mother-in-law, they are of concern to me, which makes the Technics more inviting even at more than 5 times the cost. I do appreciate your thoughts about this. Thank you for the input.

Are you sure about the turntable you are relating to? I was referring to the AT-LP1240, not one of A-T's cheaper models. I don't find any weaknesses with my 1240.

 

[TechHDS]

True. And I am learning after all these years that just because something reviews better and is more expensive doesn't mean it will be better and you will love it.

Side note. Can anyone tell me why for instance this two channel amp HAS THE SAME msrp an AVR that has a tone of options.
Marantz PM 14S1 vs
Marantz SR8012

My guess is just the quality of components used vs quantity.

@ematthews, hey what's the Avatar you have?. looks creepy man!..lol just picking at ya..it's cool looking though..

 

[KEW]

Side note. Can anyone tell me why for instance this two channel amp HAS THE SAME msrp an AVR that has a tone of options.
Marantz PM 14S1 vs
Marantz SR8012

My guess is just the quality of components used vs quantity.

It is an interesting question to think about.

Most certainly economy of scale is the biggest factor. Low volume production just increases every production cost.

No doubt the PM 14S1 has very high quality components and Marantz probably applies the highest possible standards to the look/touch/feel of it so a buyer has sensory reassurance he is getting the premium product he paid for.
However, to think the Marantz AVR uses components which introduce audible distortion/inaccuracies would be rather absurd!

The interesting thing is I'd bet they have their very best engineers/designers working on their AVR's. The complexity as well as changing features pretty much requires it, not to mention AVR's are Marantz's bread and butter and I'm sure they'll make more from the AVR than the integrated amp!
However, Marantz was making excellent amps in the seventies (and before), and the Japanese have always been very good about adopting new technologies that prove beneficial. I doubt Marantz has a shortage of good design talent to apply to the amp, but I'm not sure they need to change anything from one of their TOTL amps from 10 years ago. I suspect the design teams for those products probably only meets if one of the sourced components start failing quality checks or gets discontinued. It also would not surprise me if D&M holdings didn't own the source companies for their major components.

Furthermore, it wouldn't surprise me if a manufacturing efficiency expert (from his limited perspective) would look at their operations and profits and suggest eliminating the high dollar Integrated Amps, but the marketing department and anyone that knows business recognizes the importance of manufacturing these products to maintain their reputation as one of the top manufacturers of audio electronics.

 

[ematthews]

@ematthews, hey what's the Avatar you have?. looks creepy man!..lol just picking at ya..it's cool looking though..

That my friend is a Sleestack for the TV Show land of the Lost...

 

[sterling shoote]

Are you sure about the turntable you are relating to? I was referring to the AT-LP1240, not one of A-T's cheaper models. I don't find any weaknesses with my 1240.

Sorry, I was indeed describing an experience with the 120 usb model. I have zero experience with the 1240. I will look into it before committing to the Technics.

 

[PENG]

Maybe that's just the way the P5 is designed. When sub control is set at 12:00 on the front of the P5 it reduces the current to the sub by half of the Marantz Pre out... To my ear.. Does that make sense??

Yes that makes sense, you may re-visit my post#37, 50 and highfigh's post#50. We got your apparent issue covered in details. Basically it stems from the fact that you were comparing two different gain structures, one offered by the main preouts (Marantz), the other the subout (P5 and ATI2002). To make things simple, compare both using RCA, no subwoofer and all crossover switches/filters turned off/full range, but you know that one already.

Basically there are no "troubles" with either setup, just different gain structure way you did it. If volume matched, without the sub in the picture, they should sound the same or only slightly different. Even with the sub in the picture, the results will be the same if you volume match the sub using the P5's front level control as you mentioned.

 

[lovinthehd]

What cartridge/s do you have a preference for? I have a spare Shure V15V-MR without stylus that I am thinking about using, buying for it a JICO SAS stylus with ruby cantilever. This would set me back about $300, but I've also thought about a few other carts at that price point. Thing is I have no means to audition any cartridge. My current turntable is fitted with the Shure as described with an original stylus and it delivers a sound that I like, that's to say I do not perceive any short comings.

I use the Shure M-97xE. I've never auditioned a cartridge in my life. I simply buy one and install it. It plays the record, tracks well, sounds good...I'm done. I've used Shure, Grado, Stanton and others. I've read various things about that version of the V-15, but never used that one you have; and have read good and bad for the Jico replacement stylus for it, good luck with that! Like to hear how it turns out and which tt you get eventually....