Sony STR-DN1080 vs. Denon X2400h/X3400h

[PENG]

I like Sony , wish they have a better req system .

 

[j_garcia]

I owned about 5 or 6 Sony AVRs over the span of a few years and won't likely own any more myself. If you DO go with Sony, ES line only IMO, not the standard line. Between the standard line and Denon, there's no question I'd go with Denon.

I've also owned many Marantz and a few Denon AVRs and was very happy with both of those lines. I went from a top model Sony to a mid-level Marantz and the improvement in performance gained with the Marantz was kind of surprising. I was thinking to myself, "Wish I had tried them sooner." So it wasn't lack of features or usability, just flat out performance.

 

[PENG]

I have had experience with the older ES only but know others who had the entry level ones that worked fine too .

 

[j_garcia]

Friend of mine has had nothing but ES receivers in the last 10 years or so. I've gone to help him set them up and did always find them fairly easy to work with. His power requirements aren't as heavy as mine were when I had my 4 Ohm speakers, so I moved to external amplification even with my Marantz. Now that I am back to 8 Ohm speakers, I don't have an AVR.

 

[Zman7505]

Sony does not farm out their receivers show me any piece of evidence of that ridiculous statement. And I suppose a company that doesn't know audio can't mmake highly reviewed $30,000 dollar speakers either

https://www.stereophile.com/content/sony-ss-ar1-loudspeaker#Ob5qZGLWDprZWCJ1.97

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

And I suppose a company that doesn't know audio can't mmake highly reviewed $30,000 dollar speakers either

https://www.stereophile.com/content/sony-ss-ar1-loudspeaker#Ob5qZGLWDprZWCJ1.97

I sure wouldn't pay $27K for a pair of 3-ohm SONY speakers that has a +5dB peak around 16kHz.

Not too bad from 200Hz - 9kHz.

There is a +7dB peak around 50-80Hz, and the F3 looks about 35Hz. Nothing special here for $27K.

The off-axis isn't that great either.

Overall, except for the cabinet resonance, there's nothing impressive about the speaker measurements.

I wouldn't say that Sony doesn't know how to make speakers. I think they sound good, but nothing to brag about.

But their AVRs are not much to brag about. So it's probably more accurate to say that Sony isn't famous for their AVRs, instead of saying that Sony does not know "audio".

 

[Zman7505]

Wow, if you only look at measurements than you really don't know what you're doing.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Wow, if you only look at measurements than you really don't know what you're doing.

I know how to read the measurements.

If you only read the subjective reviews that will rave even about Bose and Zu Audio speakers, then you really don't know what you're doing.

I prefer speakers that have both great measurements and great sound. Both.

There are just so many speakers out there that have great measurements, sound great, and cost a lot less.

Let's just stick to the subject.

Sony AVR don't have Audyssey XT32, DIRAC, ARC, etc.

If you are not familiar to these EQ systems and don't care, then the Sony AVR will do.

Then there is also the factor of price. Can you get a good discount on the Sony vs the Denon?

I usually don't see big discounts on the Sony AVR. But I see the $1,500 Denon AVR on sale for $799 quite often.

So I will say that SONY does not make bad AVRs. But their AVRs lack some great features and are usually not on sale like the Denon X4000 and X3000 series.

 

[sterling shoote]

Wow, if you only look at measurements than you really don't know what you're doing.

Sony's last preamp/processor was the TA-E9000es. That was their last effort at producing such products for a very small market interested in that category of products. I don't have a clue if that was a good decision but I think with Sony loosing so much money in the last two decades I'm sure someone at Sony thought pursuit of consumer audio/video in ES Grade was perhaps a direction that could lead to greater bleeding. Of course Sony did not abandon the market all together and have continued to produce AVRs, some in ES Grade. The ES Grade are for the most part sold by Home Theatre Installers specializing in whole home audio/video integration, like lights auto dimmed, and drapes auto closed with the start of a BD. If my Sony pre/pro gives it up, or if HDMI becomes the only means of digital output of source equipment, I will likely get the best Sony ES AVR that's out there, having such a good Sony experience in the past. There's no doubt in my mind that Sony is as good as anything else out there today and the ES stuff has a 5 year warranty too. The Sony ES line is also made with a type of solder which as I understand it does not whisker as other lead free solders do. Seems that's a consideration for anyone who wants to be able to enjoy a product for more than a few years.

 

[Zman7505]

Well that's why I have actually listened to them, several times at the LA audio show. In multiple rooms ranging from kimber kable to blue coast records etc .I've seen their digital music player being used on a quarter of a million dollar systems because it sounds so good.
I've heard their es line of speakers being shown with a priceless series of pass labs vfet amplifiers that Nelson pass specifically made for them.

I have to presume these people know what they're doing and having listened to them on several occasions, I actually own them.

So that's my story...

 

[Zman7505]

Demon. Yamaha, onkyo, all good brands that make good stuff but to blatantly state ANY company is not this or not that is naive and sends the wrong message especially if you don't have resent first hand experience.

 

[Zman7505]

My suggestion to the op, listen to both if possible and decide which one you like best. They both have good reviews for performance and sound and of course features.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well that's why I have actually listened to them, several times at the LA audio show. In multiple rooms ranging from kimber kable to blue coast records etc .I've seen their digital music player being used on a quarter of a million dollar systems because it sounds so good.
I've heard their es line of speakers being shown with a priceless series of pass labs vfet amplifiers that Nelson pass specifically made for them.

I have to presume these people know what they're doing and having listened to them on several occasions, I actually own them.

So that's my story...

I have listened to them as well. They do sound good. No argument there.

But most of the expensive speakers I've owned and auditioned also sound good. A lot of speakers, especially those over $5,000 sound very good, even if there measurements are not the best in the world.

So if you've read my past posts, you will know that I don't think measurements tell you everything. And most measurements on electronics like Amps, Preamps, Pre-pro, and AVR mean even less than speaker measurements because these specs are inaudible for the most part.

But we still discuss them at least academically.

So again, the $27K Sony speakers do sound very good. But in terms of academic discussion, the measurements are not among the best, except for the spectral decay.

In terms of AVR, I also think that minus the Audyssey DEQ that I love and the bigger discounts of Denon AVR, I do think Sony AVRs are good. I have also owned many Sony products including TVs, PS, BD Players, VCR, Cassette, AVR.

I've also had great experience with Sony AVR. But they do lack the features I love (Audyssey XT Dynamic EQ).

And SONY AVRs never seem to go on sale.

So Sony is more expensive and has less features that many people love (Audyssey DEQ).

Other than than, Sony makes great AVR and speakers.

 

[Zman7505]

I can totally agree with that.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I like Sony , wish they have a better req system .

Yeah, if SONY AVR had Audyssey XT32 Dynamic EQ, I might have bought them to match my seven SONY 4K TVs.

To me, Audyssey XT is the ONLY thing that's keeping me from recommending SONY AVR.

Other than that, I always think SONY is pretty great.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I can totally agree with that.

For a long time, pretty much every gear I owned was a SONY, including SONY AVR, VCR and Cassette players.

Also owned SONY Laptops, Walkmans, Boomboxes, headphones - pretty much almost everything.

I just wished they offered Audyssey XT DEQ because I can't live without that.

 

[PENG]

So Sony is more expensive and has less features that many people love (Audyssey DEQ).

Other than than, Sony makes great AVR and speakers.

I don't ever recall you said anything bad about Sony AVRs, you just never promoted them here and now you have given us the reasons, so fair enough.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't ever recall you said anything bad about Sony AVRs, you just never promoted them here and now you have given us the reasons, so fair enough.

Yeah, I think I'm a pretty fair person.

Overall, I probably like SONY more than most guys on the forum. I never have anything bad to say about SONY.

I think the only real negative thing I have ever said about SONY is that their AVR lack Audyssey XT DEQ.

In terms of Power Output, SNR, THD, FR, I think Sony AVR is as good as any and is probably better than some. So Sony AVRs have impressed me in these categories.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I was looking at the $1,700 sexy-looking SONY 3000ES AVR, which is actually on sale for $798. I really love the sleek look.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00O2IGAFA/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=

And this SONY AVR has an 8-port Giga Ethernet Port in the back. That's different.

It has TrueHD, DTS-HD MA, 5YR Warranty, but it doesn't have ATMOS or DTX:X or Audyssey XT32.

Let's compare this $1,700 Sony (which is on sale for $798) to the $1,500 Denon X4300 (which you can get on sale for $799) in terms of power.

Power Output:
SONY: 135W x 2Ch 8-ohm, 98W x 5Ch 8-ohm, 172W x 2Ch 4-ohm
DENON: 149W x 2ch 8-ohm, 118W x 5Ch 8-ohm, 239W x 2Ch 4-ohm

We can see that the DENON outperforms the SONY in power output, especially in 4-ohms.

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/sony-str-za3000es-av-receiver-review-test-bench

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-x4200w-av-receiver-review-test-bench

The Denon also has Audyssey XT32, ATMOS, DTS:X, AURO-3D, SONY does not.

The SONY has 5YR warranty, DENON has 3YR.

In Direct/Bypass sound modes, the SQ is equal, but I think Audyssey XT DEQ gives the DENON a huge advantage.

 

[j_garcia]

OP is not asking about the ES line or $70K speakers. Though we got sidetracked into the discussion about things that are fairly unrelated to the question at hand, if we talk about THESE TWO AVRs, there's still no question in my mind as to what the answer is.