Why didn't they choose an AVR?

[3db]

I love that this thread was started to start an argument and then OP gets mad when it happens...Seems like all his threads end up that way.

I also think (as others have pointed out) that the reason is very obvious as to why an AVR wasn't chosen.

well, reasons:

1. Someone designing drivers doesn't need the features of an AVR so a stand alone amp makes more sense.
2. When a company chooses a piece of equipment to use as a TOOL for making quality components they typically want a very good, long lasting tool. Amps out last the rest of the components in an AVR. AVRs can die due to firmware updates, other stuff.

Not all that difficult to see why they chose a stand alone amp. No need to start a thread asking why.

I agree with point 1 but strongly disagree with point 2. There are many users here who have AVRs that are over 15 years old. I just retired an RX-V1500 only because it doesn't have HDMI, not because it was breaking down.

 

[3db]

Anyone remember Audioholic's review of the Yamaha RX-A3000 where it out performed an Emotiva power amp in 2 channel mode? Just saying.

 

[everettT]

Anyone remember Audioholic's review of the Yamaha RX-A3000 where it out performed an Emotiva power amp in 2 channel mode? Just saying.

Don't get it started he answered his own question in the link. The OP is an insane example to use for his argument and that's it. I'm done posting in a baited thread

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks, I have read up on Pioneers ICE, class D. But loveinthehd, for the life of me I can't wrap my head around it. Can you recommend a site I can maybe research just a little bit deeper? I am intrigued with that technology. I know that they are capable of hitting headroom better, less heat, less weight. I have had two subs burn out in less than three years so has my Son two Pro subs burn out too.

Sorry, no particular links for you....start searching this site perhaps for comments/info.

 

[TechHDS]

I agree with point 1 but strongly disagree with point 2. There are many users here who have AVRs that are over 15 years old. I just retired an RX-V1500 only because it doesn't have HDMI, not because it was breaking down.

it's seems that AVR's pre HDMI, pre network, lasted longer. I am wondering if the merging of those two technologies into AVR's had a lot to do with so many post HDMI,Network AVR's failing to last past 2, 3 years and there has been an epidemic almost with AVR's failures with those two technologies.

 

[3db]

it's seems that AVR's pre HDMI, pre network, lasted longer. I am wondering if the merging of those two technologies into AVR's had a lot to do with so many post AVR's failing to last past 2, 3 years and there has been an epidemic almost with AVR's failures with those two technologies.

I dont recall Yamaha or Denon suffer that fate anywhere close to Onkyo. Im still running an RX-V1800 and a recently purchased used RX-V1900, both glitch free

 

[TechHDS]

I dont recall Yamaha or Denon suffer that fate anywhere close to Onkyo. Im still running an RX-V1800 and a recently purchased used RX-V1900, both glitch free

No not to the extent of Onkyo, Yamaha/Denon or Marantz or Sony not their mid to flagships. I have read reviews on the lower-end units failing with network problems and some HDMI problems with all of the manufacturers. Harman Kardon had a bad run with HDMI problems but also not to the extent that Onkyo had. I had a HK 3600 Just over two years HDMI port 2 went out.

 

[TechHDS]

Sorry, no particular links for you....start searching this site perhaps for comments/info.

Thxs!

 

[RichB]

I have wall mounted Revel M20's and components in my basement system.
The BDP-95 and Yamaha RX-A820 are wall mounted on adjustable arms that will not hold an anvil.
It is very important that the system not interfere with the pool table

The Yamaha RX-A820 has been an interesting product and it has permitted me to make some observations:

• Changing the Amplifier setting from 6 ohms to 4 ohms has an observable negative effect on the sound quality at a low volumes where power should not be an issue.
• Turning the volume up after a point the system sounds compressed. Distortion is likely to have increased but it is the compression that is noticeable. The speakers cannot be rules out though.
• Listening to CD's via the HDMI is no match for the analog outs of the 95
• The Pure Direct mode sounds much better than enabling any processing even when all settings are Large/Flat

Of course, this is all subjective

Since I am running out of space in my main system. I am considering selling the RX-A820 and BDP-95. The BDP-105 would be moved to the basement and directly drive an 2 channel amplifier.
Size is not an issue but weight is.

I have auditioned the AHB2 driving the Salon2's and it is a great amp. My first impression was that the upper end was incredibly clean and detailed. I did like it better bridged but the session was short and there is 6 DB more gain so that could be the reason.

The AHB2 may not a power house and you can buy very good amps with more power for less but it could well be a reference piece used to compare others. It certainly has enough power for my application.

The ATI N-Core amp is another option but I do worry about the high-frequency noise. Class-D seems to required filtering before measurement to remove it.

I don't like amps that show excessive artifacts when playing two tone tests. I've seem some pretty bad ringing for inexpensive and expensive amps.

If the AHB2 was 2K, I'd have one already.

Now, back to the OP;s question. SEAS could want and absolutely prestine amp to drive their speakers. They could have a small space. They may want a really low noise floor. They could get amps for free and co-market. It could be all these or other reasons. This Benchmark article has no bearing on my reasoning.

- Rich

 

[PENG]

This Benchmark article has no bearing on my reasoning.

- Rich

Sure, almost same here, but it's there, so there is no need to guess as I said about 40-50 posts ago. By the way, I wish I was an Oppo Beta tester, each of my 3 pieces cost me over (well over) C$1,000, and the 105 and HA1 are already outdated. Ouch! But I like toys.

Great to see you post before the OP close this thread........

Edit: meant outdated, not updated..

Best regards

 

[PENG]

@William Lemmerhirt @AcuDefTechGuy, lol, thanks for warm welcome back. My profile got hacked so I opened this one I figured as much couple you Old-Timers would recognize what I posted. William, nice to see your still kicking it around in here thanks for the luv!. Hey you ole timers feel like going into Polk Audios Club Forum?. I been hearing that a few of them cats been sneaking around In hear and going back to Polk Club and saying it's very painful to read what we post up in here!. You guys feel like jumping a couple of them pole cats over there? We can mention that since Matthew Polk sold the place all Polk gear sucks, that should start a good fight huh? We can leave fires all over the place then sneak back out before they catch on to us. We can just drop analogies all over the place that ought to really get them going.

Funny you mentioned that, I had my forum teeth cut there, and still have all my Polk speakers and sub. ADTG won't last over there unless he avoids any topics relating to the need of adding a 200 W amp to an AVR. You could start a thread about the AHB2 vs their favorite amps, be sure to mention bridge mode though, to get 480 W.

 

[Steve81]

Some guys here (you know who you are) like to say that a <$1K AVR will measure like the best of them and that any difference is marketing for audiophools.

If so, why did a respected driver manufacturer like SEAS choose this amp?

Now, back to the OP;s question. SEAS could want and absolutely prestine amp to drive their speakers. They could have a small space. They may want a really low noise floor. They could get amps for free and co-market. It could be all these or other reasons. This Benchmark article has no bearing on my reasoning.

I think the key point to bear in mind is that the amp is being used in a professional lab environment to test drivers. It seems reasonable to me that SEAS would want an absolutely pristine amp for that kind of work; ideally, the only sources of noise and distortion would be the DUT. Likewise, I would assume they're probably using something a little more precise than a $100 Dayton mic to take the measurements. Of course, none of this suggests that a $1,000 AVR and a $100 Dayton mic couldn't perform adequately in a consumer setting.

 

[TechHDS]

Funny you mentioned that, I had my forum teeth cut there, and still have all my Polk speakers and sub. ADTG won't last over there unless he avoids any topics relating to the need of adding a 200 W amp to an AVR. You could start a thread about the AHB2 vs their favorite amps, be sure to mention bridge mode though, to get 480 W.

PENG!! lol, Top of the Morning to you Sir!, I still have all my Polk speaker's too. I am sure you know I was just messing around about Polks Audio Club Forum, their forum is a good one to, some of the best old timers over there to pick up some great tips on gear. I still go on their site but not much these days. Sir the way I look at this hobby? one can Never have to many speaker's or amps. But ADTG may know a thing or two about AVR's with a nice one, most of the time a add on amp isn't needed. But for some of us audiohools where addicted to power just gotta have 200 or more!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Funny you mentioned that, I had my forum teeth cut there, and still have all my Polk speakers and sub. ADTG won't last over there unless he avoids any topics relating to the need of adding a 200 W amp to an AVR. You could start a thread about the AHB2 vs their favorite amps, be sure to mention bridge mode though, to get 480 W.

Well shoot, I can handle it if you guys can.

I can go there and say everyone needs at least 300W into 8 ohms.

Now if the AHB2 is bridged, you get 380W into 8 ohms for $6K for 2 Ch. What is the SNR and other inaudible specs when it is in bridged mode (not that it matters since it's inaudible) ?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

PENG!! lol, Top of the Morning to you Sir!, I still have all my Polk speaker's too. I am sure you know I was just messing around about Polks Audio Club Forum, their forum is a good one to, some of the best old timers over there to pick up some great tips on gear. I still go on their site but not much these days. Sir the way I look at this hobby? one can Never have to many speaker's or amps. But ADTG may know a thing or two about AVR's with a nice one, most of the time a add on amp isn't needed. But for some of us audiohools where addicted to power just gotta have 200 or more!

I still think if you are getting an amp, it better be 200W/8 ohms or more!

I think it's ridiculous to get a 100W/8 ohms amp when most AVRs can output more than that!

 

[panteragstk]

I agree with point 1 but strongly disagree with point 2. There are many users here who have AVRs that are over 15 years old. I just retired an RX-V1500 only because it doesn't have HDMI, not because it was breaking down.

I get your disagreement, but if you kept using the RX-V1500 I'm willing to bet that SOMETHING other than the amp would eventually crap out on it.

On my VERY old Kenwood (I know, but it's around 18 years old and still works) the amp is pretty much the only part that functions properly. The component inputs failed quite awhile ago, but the amp is still going strong.

Granted, Yamaha has a known reputation for making rock solid products so maybe it would just keep on kicking. You never know.

 

[TechHDS]

Well shoot, I can handle it if you guys can.

I can go there and say everyone needs at least 300W into 8 ohms.

Now if the AHB2 is bridged, you get 380W into 8 ohms for $6K for 2 Ch. What is the SNR and other inaudible specs when it is in bridged mode?

@ADTG, I believe I read somewhere that one of the tell tail signs of a good amp build, is that it should be able to output two times the power output from 8 ohms into 4ohms. If I worded that right, say a amp outputs 200 X 2 at an 8 ohm load, a good amp build should output double that into a 4 ohm load. Would that be correct? also say a amp that can't output two times the output into a 4 ohm load, Now my question, would it be because of #1, smaller power supply, #2 power trans at the rail? and #3, smaller Caps ufs?. just trying to gain some knowledge on amp build.

 

[lsiberian]

While I respect the attitude of this forum in "pursing the truth", those truths have become almost a religious dogma, to the point where nobody can mention anything that might even slightly disagree with the rhetoric of them, even when presenting evidence to the contrary. There are multiple posts I have made with issues where @Tlsguy has jumped in and said something "out of canon" to this forum in response.

I don't agree with TLSGuy on everything, but I do respect his opinion greatly because of his experience and knowledge. I doubt he'd want to be in a forum of yes men.

 

[RichB]

Sure, almost same here, but it's there, so there is no need to guess as I said about 40-50 posts ago. By the way, I wish I was an Oppo Beta tester, each of my 3 pieces cost me over (well over) C$1,000, and the 105 and HA1 are already updated. Ouch! But I like toys.

Great to see you post before the OP close this thread........

Best regards

If it's any consolation the relsale value is higher in CA.
The UDP-205 is a very nice player. I didn't think I would like it but UHD is very nice on an OLED.

I skimmed the original Benchmark thread and there are a lot of interesting posts before it went dark.

I wish the cripes, that Emotiva would release their new HDMI 2.0a board. I purchased a 18Gig HDMI 2.0 switch that I will use when the XMC-1 gets shipped out for an upgrade. Processors are nice but I alway enjoy my system when the Oppo's are connected directly to my amps. I keep trying REQ, perhaps one day it will float my boat

I am eyeing a used AHB2 in silver but I would ship it to Benchmark to get it black-if-field, tested, and shipped to me. It would still be a savings over a new unit.

Also in the running are the ATI 1802 and ATI 522NC (N-Core). Suggestions?

- Rich

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

@ADTG, I believe I read somewhere that one of the tell tail signs of a good amp build, is that it should be able to output two times the power output from 8 ohms into 4ohms. If I worded that right, say a amp outputs 200 X 2 at an 8 ohm load, a good amp build should output double that into a 4 ohm load. Would that be correct? also say a amp that can't output two times the output into a 4 ohm load, Now my question, would it be because of #1, smaller power supply, #2 power trans at the rail? and #3, smaller Caps ufs?. just trying to gain some knowledge on amp build.

I'm sure PENG could give us more detailed answers on the technical side.

To me, a good amp has plenty of power to handle all loads, even 1 ohm loads.

For example, McIntosh amps are very good amps. But they will output the same power into 8 ohms as 4 ohms and 2 ohms (like 300 Watts into 8/4/2 ohms). They don't have to "double-down".

If your speakers are 8 ohms and have a sensitivity of 88dB/w/m and you sit 3 meters away and wanted 100dB, your amp would need to output 143 Watts to produce 100dB.

But if you had this $3K Benchmark amp, it would clip at 108 Watts into 8 ohms.

What good is the "double-down" spec when it clips at 108 watts?

So it depends on the case.