One Sub For Music Only

[Chief2001]

Hi All! This is my first post, so any insight would be appreciated. I am looking at purchasing an HSU VTF-2 Mk5 for my music only system. My main speakers are Duntech Esquires, which at down 3 db at 55 hz. I listen to CDs and vinyl. Preamp is a Bryston BP 20 and amp is a Sonic Frontiers SFS-40. My room is 13x13.6x8, so a small room. There is one wall with an open doorway to the kitchen.

I have read repeatedly that 2 subs are better than 1 mantra. Unfortunately, I can't afford 2 subs and space is limited in my listening room. I am wondering if people feel one sub would be able to give me the bass that is missing from 50-30 hz in a way that would add to my listening experience? I am not looking for gut punching bass, just the addition of bass that would augment the listening. I am also hoping that after careful positioning and working with the various subwoofer settings, that I will be able to get it to "disappear" or integrate seamlessly with my main speakers.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Hi All! This is my first post, so any insight would be appreciated. I am looking at purchasing an HSU VTF-2 Mk5 for my music only system. My main speakers are Duntech Esquires, which at down 3 db at 55 hz. I listen to CDs and vinyl. Preamp is a Bryston BP 20 and amp is a Sonic Frontiers SFS-40. My room is 13x13.6x8, so a small room. There is one wall with an open doorway to the kitchen.

I have read repeatedly that 2 subs are better than 1 mantra. Unfortunately, I can't afford 2 subs and space is limited in my listening room. I am wondering if people feel one sub would be able to give me the bass that is missing from 50-30 hz in a way that would add to my listening experience? I am not looking for gut punching bass, just the addition of bass that would augment the listening. I am also hoping that after careful positioning and working with the various subwoofer settings, that I will be able to get it to "disappear" or integrate seamlessly with my main speakers.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

It seems you’re focused on one listening position. I would answer your question of a single sub with a yes. Properly integrated, One subwoofer can definitely disappear. This is, as you’ve obviously discovered not plug and play but yeah, you can definitely do that. Dual subs often get a little too much credit, and it should be pointed out more often that just thrown them into a room can have more negative effects than good ones. The main advantage is even coverage over “multiple” seats(and headroom) I use 3 subs so keep in mind im not saying don’t use multiple subs. I’ve also spent a lot of time integrating them. I think HSU is a great choice for performance and value.

 

[Mikado463]

while square rooms are never good I do believe the best way to alleviate nulls, etc is with two subs. I'll let the experts confirm this though.

 

[shadyJ]

Hi All! This is my first post, so any insight would be appreciated. I am looking at purchasing an HSU VTF-2 Mk5 for my music only system. My main speakers are Duntech Esquires, which at down 3 db at 55 hz. I listen to CDs and vinyl. Preamp is a Bryston BP 20 and amp is a Sonic Frontiers SFS-40. My room is 13x13.6x8, so a small room. There is one wall with an open doorway to the kitchen.

I have read repeatedly that 2 subs are better than 1 mantra. Unfortunately, I can't afford 2 subs and space is limited in my listening room. I am wondering if people feel one sub would be able to give me the bass that is missing from 50-30 hz in a way that would add to my listening experience? I am not looking for gut punching bass, just the addition of bass that would augment the listening. I am also hoping that after careful positioning and working with the various subwoofer settings, that I will be able to get it to "disappear" or integrate seamlessly with my main speakers.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

If you can only have one sub, the VTF-2 mk5 is a fine choice. However, looking at your goals, I think the VTF-1 mk3 will suffice for your purposes as well. The VTF-1 has excellent performance from 30 Hz and above for its size and price. Since this is music only, you don't really need a deep digging behemoth like the VTF-2 mk5, especially if you don't intend to crank it. If you do like to crank it, the VTF-1 is no slouch, it can hang with at least 105 dB from 30 Hz and above in one port mode, and 110 dB from 40 Hz and above in 2 ports open mode (review).

One thing you might think about doing is getting a high-pass filter too, like this one. That can help alleviate your speaker from playing the most difficult stuff for its woofer (thereby lowering distortion), but it also takes the guesswork out of where to set the crossover for the speaker. The speaker's specs claim to be -3dB at 55 Hz, but that might be optimism for marketing. As you are probably aware, your preamp has no bass management.

 

[Chief2001]

Thanks for your responses, much appreciated!

Due to the location of the room in my house, I don’t have the option of shifting things around to different listening locations. My location is a good sized couch on the back wall, opposite to the speakers, that has a reasonably wide sweet spot.

As I do not entertain often with friends listening, when I do, the volume usually goes up pretty good and I push the system to show what it can do (without brining in distortion). Essentially to show off how “real” it sounds. So, I wonder if the extra headroom with the VTF-2 over the VTF-1 is money well spent? I’m not against the windows rattling the odd time, in fact, I would love to have this capability.

Man, as for a separate high pass filter, great suggestion and advice! Not sure, to be honest, if my brain is willing to go there yet. I have had this system for 25 years (with updates to capacitors, CD player, the addition of a turntable) and have not had the gumption/money to do the subwoofer thing. I have always been hesitant because my system images so well and a very capable of a “being there” experience. I just didn’t want to mess it up. But it is time to experience bass. I hesitate on the high pass because of lack of knowledge and money at this point in time.

I welcome any further discussion. Great to connect with people with similar interests!

 

[shadyJ]

Yeah the VTF-2 mk5 will hit a bit harder and dig deeper. If you like to crank the volume from time to time, I think it's worth the premium to do that.

 

[sterling shoote]

Thanks for your responses, much appreciated!

Due to the location of the room in my house, I don’t have the option of shifting things around to different listening locations. My location is a good sized couch on the back wall, opposite to the speakers, that has a reasonably wide sweet spot.

As I do not entertain often with friends listening, when I do, the volume usually goes up pretty good and I push the system to show what it can do (without brining in distortion). Essentially to show off how “real” it sounds. So, I wonder if the extra headroom with the VTF-2 over the VTF-1 is money well spent? I’m not against the windows rattling the odd time, in fact, I would love to have this capability.

Man, as for a separate high pass filter, great suggestion and advice! Not sure, to be honest, if my brain is willing to go there yet. I have had this system for 25 years (with updates to capacitors, CD player, the addition of a turntable) and have not had the gumption/money to do the subwoofer thing. I have always been hesitant because my system images so well and a very capable of a “being there” experience. I just didn’t want to mess it up. But it is time to experience bass. I hesitate on the high pass because of lack of knowledge and money at this point in time.

I welcome any further discussion. Great to connect with people with similar interests!

I'd like to know what genre of music you like. Since adding a sub to my system back in 1987 I have realized there's no effect or enhancement to most of my music by having the sub turned on. That's to say my mains produce all the bass that's on the recordings I have. The exception is dance music, which sounds less than spectacular without the sub turned on. I am really glad I purchased a sub since I just love dance music; but, I am surprised at how it has played out, pun intended. BTW, I recommend Levo (club edit) Toolroom Miami 2015 for some really way low cool bass effects.

 

[Chief2001]

I listen to a pretty wide range of music from classic rock (Santana, Stones) to female vocalists to blues, jazz, classical and some hip hop.

 

[j_garcia]

I use the sub with all of my music. I have a large room and use only one sub. Placement and calibration of the sub is more important when using one, but it can for sure be done.

 

[Chief2001]

J Garcia- Great to hear it can be done effectively!

A couple of questions if you don't mind. Did you use an app on your phone or a decible meter to help with set-up or did you rely on your ears? Were you able to get the sub to disappear? I guess that question means did it fit in with your main speakers? If so, did it add depth and image quality to your listening?

I ask these questions because the sense of real presence of performers in my room is really important to me.

 

[Chief2001]

Didn't mean to direct that just to J Garcia...all thoughts welcome!

 

[Chief2001]

Sorry to be intermittent with comments! I do wish I had money and room for 2 subs. I suppose, once I finally place the order next week, once I get it home, I will have the chance to experience how effective one sub is and how challenging it is to integrate with my speakers. Clearly the experience is unique to all of us, based on main speakers and different rooms.

I would appreciate hearing from others as to your experience integrating a single sub with main speakers (given my speakers are not full range).

 

[MrBoat]

Sorry to be intermittent with comments! I do wish I had money and room for 2 subs. I suppose, once I finally place the order next week, once I get it home, I will have the chance to experience how effective one sub is and how challenging it is to integrate with my speakers. Clearly the experience is unique to all of us, based on main speakers and different rooms.

I would appreciate hearing from others as to your experience integrating a single sub with main speakers (given my speakers are not full range).

One sub is going to make a pretty remarkable difference in a 13x13 room with 8 ft ceilings. One sub can definitely be enough for music too. The improvement is going to be quite noticeable.

That would be the alternative, or it was in my past, when doing without bass management/subs. To choose main speakers with capable woofers that reach to the mid 30's. The large JBL speakers I have go to the middle 30 range and they can shake the walls on their own and the bass from those is really smart. If I was still using my old 2 channel gear, I'd still be using those full time without missing much.

Now I have duals in a music only setup because I can fit two smaller ones easier than one large one. I'll have two 12" instead of a single 15". Currently I have two 8" (while waiting to get finished with the 12's) and they are doing better than they probably ought to and I could get by on these at the levels I mostly listen at. Funny, as I was typing this paragraph, the little 8" subs just reminded me how potent they are, since I am listening while typing. My room is roughly 12x20.

 

[Chief2001]

Thanks for your reply! I am just about to finalize my purchase and am VERY excited to get it and try it in my system.

I just recently purchased a turntable and upgraded the cartridge pretty quickly. It then became clear that I really was missing out on the impact in the bass area, so, I decided it was time to take the plunge and try a sub out. Foolishly, I have actually caught myself thinking that this will be my final stereo purchase ever. Perhaps it will sound so good that I can just listen to the music and enjoy it!

 

[Chief2001]

I saw from shadyj that a high pass filter would be a good idea. My learning curve has reached the point where I think I get it.

If I don’t have a high pass filter, because I am running from a preamp out to low level inputs on the subs, that means my speakers would still be running full range , I would just be adding the bass of the subwoofer, correct?

How would the addition of a high pass filter effect the sound of my main speakers? Am I able to roll them off gently enough so that they would still maintain their “character”? I love then sound of my speakers and don’t want to change them. But, if it would open up the sound and allow less strain on my main amp, than maybe a high pass filter is a good idea.

Thoughts?

 

[lovinthehd]

A crossover is a good way to go. Nice if your avr/pre-pro can provide such along with delay control ideally. With old 2ch gear you might add something like a minidsp 2x4 between your pre-amp and sub/amp to handle crossover, delay and sub eq.

 

[everettT]

I saw from shadyj that a high pass filter would be a good idea. My learning curve has reached the point where I think I get it.

If I don’t have a high pass filter, because I am running from a preamp out to low level inputs on the subs, that means my speakers would still be running full range , I would just be adding the bass of the subwoofer, correct?

How would the addition of a high pass filter effect the sound of my main speakers? Am I able to roll them off gently enough so that they would still maintain their “character”? I love then sound of my speakers and don’t want to change them. But, if it would open up the sound and allow less strain on my main amp, than maybe a high pass filter is a good idea.

Thoughts?

A high pass filter will protect your mains from being over driven, even at a steep slope your still protecting your mains from damage. You need or should limit them at higher spl

 

[Chief2001]

Would a high pass filter degrade the signal to my main speakers? If my speakers are rated as -3 db at 55 Hz, where should the high pass filter be set? I am thinking of purchasing the filter that HSU sells.

 

[everettT]

No it wouldn't, it safely rolls off the low end as a protection circuit.

 

[Chief2001]

So, to clarify in my mind, if I am connecting the HSU VTF2 to my preamp with interconnects running from pre-out to low level inputs on sub, I should also run a high pass filter between my pre amp and power amp so that:

1. my sub runs all of the frequencies below, say 60 hz
2. the high pass filter reduces the strain on my main speakers, which, hopefully, would allow them to be more "open" and less strained

Did I get it?

What if I just go with the cross over on the sub and don't go with a high pass filter? Are there advantages to not using a high pass filter.

My GOALS are to improve the low level bass my main speakers don't produce, to produce more bass impact, and to have the sub fit seamlessly with my speakers.

I LOVE my main speakers and do not want to change their sound..just add to the overall listening experience.

Any advice to this would be appreciated. This is a little more complicated then I had originally thought.