Speaker issue or Receiver?

William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Not sure what you mean about turning it up to achieve the same volume....

Generally I think I've read you can hear something like 1% THD, think for IMD it's less. I haven't heard anyone complain about the distortion levels on these....several members here use these or other pro amps rather than consumer amps...can't guarantee your experience, tho :)
Yep, I’ll weigh in a little bit for the other pro amp guys lol. Before I bought my Yamaha p2500s I read many reports and reviews about guys testing their boutique amps against pro amps. Almost every report with exception to the 1000 series crown(high noise floor)amps favored the pro amps for value. Some said they sounded better, some said they sounded at least as good etc, but the surprising thing I found was how many guys abandoned their bias toward fancy amps. To be fair, most pro amps (even if they look cool in a bad a$$ kind of way) are not beautiful, but represent great value. If money is no object, I personally would love a rack full of blue Macintosh vu meters. Reality wins however so...
In short I agree with Chris to look at the Crowns. Or Yamaha’s...
 
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Dean Shias

Enthusiast
OK.. It looks like Im going to order the Crown XLS1502 tomorrow... but cant help but notice that the Crown XLS2502 is $88 more for so much more power on Amazon (maybe keep the volume lower on it?). Good or bad idea?
XLS1502
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
OK.. It looks like Im going to order the Crown XLS1502 tomorrow... but cant help but notice that the Crown XLS2502 is $88 more for so much more power on Amazon (maybe keep the volume lower on it?). Good or bad idea?
XLS1502
I’m an enabler, so yes! I say yes. Seriously though, for 88 bucks why not.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
OK.. It looks like Im going to order the Crown XLS1502 tomorrow... but cant help but notice that the Crown XLS2502 is $88 more for so much more power on Amazon (maybe keep the volume lower on it?). Good or bad idea?
XLS1502
The one I'd not bother with is the 1002, the models above that have better snr spec. Just depends what you may want the power for....they make good sub amps, too. The 2502 for $88 more is definitely a deal...
 
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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Im about 12 feet from front L&R&Sub. No EQ. The only setting on is whatever the mic found for room correction. Sub is crossed at 80hz. but speakers are set to Large (even when set to Small they handle just a tad more). I use to almost bring this receiver to the max with the def techs, lets say to 95 on the volume with no problem and they were more sensitive, but they do have built in subs to crossover low frequencies.. now I cant go past 74 to 80 without the KEFs sounding like they cant handle it. But again, Im not sure if its the speakers or receiver. The sound is so good on the KEFs that I dont mind if the KEFs cant handle bass or loud volumes this much, but just want to make sure they don't need to be serviced or not or if the receiver cant keep up. I listen to all types of music.. but the ones that I'm having a problem with at loud volumes is more like house, dance, and heavy metal music.
Something does not sound right. You said 95 on the volume, but what is the maximum volume setting? I guess it may be 98, but even if it is 100, you should be no where near 95!! What is your signal source, CD player, DAC?

The R700s are rated 89 dB/2.83V/m, 8 ohm nominal, 3.2 ohm minimum. Nominal is almost meaningless, so let's be conservative and de-rate the R700 to say 83 dB/1W/m, in order to use the calculator linked below:

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

upload_2017-12-31_11-6-49.png


According to this online peak spl calculator, you should be able to get almost 98 dB of peak spl from your listening position. If you do listen to sustained 85 dB level, that few people do, you still have 12-13 dB on hand to cover the peaks for most music genres, definitely the dance and heavy metal music you mentioned you had problem with.

Since you listen to those type of music (that are relatively compressed) at such high spl level, you may want to add a fan or two to keep the expensive Arcam cool so it can live longer.

Before you go and get an amp, you may want to try doing a factory reset on the Arcam first in case some settings were messed up, causing the problem.

Also, double check that the binding post shorting links at the back of the R700s are perfectly tight, to make sure all the drivers are 100% engaged. Those links have been known to loosen up, or not tightened properly for whatever reasons.

One last thing to try if you haven't yet, is to use a CD player for input. That's just to rule out if your source signal is too low. I know that is unlikely the reason, but just want to cover all bases.

I can tell you that my Denon AVR can drive the R900s easily. It is true that the R900 is a touch easier to drive and my AVR is a touch more powerful than yours, but still, there is no need for me to turn the volume pass even -10 (-79.5 to +18) in the relative scale, or 70 on the absolute scale (0 to 98) regardless of which source players I use.

After all the double checking are done, if you insist on getting an amp, get one that is returnable without penalty as I am not sure exactly what the Arcam's specified:

"Preamplifier outputs Nominal output level 1V RMS" really mean.


Hopefully it is capable of much higher than 1 V rms without clipping, but we don't know for sure. The suggested Crown XLS 1502 is a safe bet because it has a high input sensitivity of 0.775V that you can select, and still enjoy a decent SN ratio of 97.
 
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Dean Shias

Enthusiast
OK! I just ordered the Crown XLS 2502 from Amazon. I hope this does it! I didnt want to worry about blowing or cooling anything when this is the only down time I get out of my day is listening to music (Plus the wife was ok with it). My sources that I use is a computer-jriver-arcam/receiver-speakers, project rpm3 turntable-project tube ds preamp-receiver, & xbox one. When im mixing music on the computer is really when I crank it up to ridiculous volumes. the Volume scale is 0-99. I should get it in a few days so Ill keep everyone posted if your still interested. You guys are great.. Thanks for your help! Happy New Year to everyone! May everyone win the lottery and get all the Mcintosh amps they want!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Hope that does the trick for ya. Watch out for your ears and speakers....
 
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Dean Shias

Enthusiast
(Still trying to get over the price vs power vs SQ on this amp compared to Emotiva, Monolith, Etc.) If I end up getting a few of these for a whole HT system, would the SQ be good enough? Read many reviews (90% good, 10% OK) for SQ.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Thanks Dean, happy new year to you, and everybody else too.
Guess I should go check my lotto numbers. Tell ya what, if I hit I’ll buy you a stack of mac’s too!!! As far as a few crowns for the HT, I have to say you’d be just fine. I’ve seen lots of systems that were powered completely by them so go for it(after you spend some time with the 2502 first I guess). Only thing to fuss with is the gain structure afaik. Congrats!
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
(Still trying to get over the price vs power vs SQ on this amp compared to Emotiva, Monolith, Etc.) If I end up getting a few of these for a whole HT system, would the SQ be good enough? Read many reviews (90% good, 10% OK) for SQ.
I think you will not regret, and if in doubt, do a level matched single blind test first before returning it. I am listening to my first pro amp now, and so far I have to say it is as good as my other amps that cost 5 to 10X more. Just on issue, with mine, I know I will have to replace the stocked fan if I am going to keep it. I understand the Crown XLS amps don't have fan noise issue, and that the variable speed fan would only turn on when needed to.

Happy New Year to you too!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I think you will not regret, and if in doubt, do a level matched single blind test first before returning it. I am listening to my first pro amp now, and so far I have to say it is as good as my other amps that cost 5 to 10X more. Just on issue, with mine, I know I will have to replace the stocked fan if I am going to keep it. I understand the Crown XLS amps don't have fan noise issue, and that the variable speed fan would only turn on when needed to.

Happy New Year to you too!
What are you playing with? An iNuke?
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
I think you will not regret, and if in doubt, do a level matched single blind test first before returning it. I am listening to my first pro amp now, and so far I have to say it is as good as my other amps that cost 5 to 10X more. Just on issue, with mine, I know I will have to replace the stocked fan if I am going to keep it. I understand the Crown XLS amps don't have fan noise issue, and that the variable speed fan would only turn on when needed to.

Happy New Year to you too!
Hey peng! Just thought I’d add my Yamaha p series has never made any fan noise either. Not even sure they’ve ever turned on.
Happy new year!
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Hey peng! Just thought I’d add my Yamaha p series has never made any fan noise either. Not even sure they’ve ever turned on.
Happy new year!
Happy new year to you too. I knew about the noise before hand because I research it, and Verdinut told me so, but I pulled the trigger when I though Amazon made a mistake on the price.:D I can't afford the p series or the XLS series. I don't mind spending a few bucks to fix the fan noise issue. This thing sounds better than people gave it credit for. My big and small KEFs are loving it.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Which model? Curious about fan noise level, too.
Sorry, forgot to mention. RMX 850a, can't find much info about it but plenty about the older 850 that has the same specs but look different.
 
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Dean Shias

Enthusiast
So the Crown XLS 2502 came in and I have been testing it with a lot of music. So far this thing is doing the job nicely. Definitely a step up in sound compared to the Arcam AVR400. Havent heard any noise from the sound or fan really. Its in my family room with a computer that i can hear the fan so not sure how it would be in an extreme silent room. I've been cranking this thing and the KEFs are at their limit it seems. Whats the best way to set this amp through the preamps. I have the knobs on the Crown set to about 3 oclock and then did an auto eq on the Arcam. Sounds good to me. Just want to make sure I dont overdo anything and blow anything or if I can get even better sound. But this was a good recommendation especially for the cost.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Are you seeing the clipping indicators light up much (or a lot) when playing the loudest parts of the music at high levels?
 
D

Dean Shias

Enthusiast
Are you seeing the clipping indicators light up much (or a lot) when playing the loudest parts of the music at high levels?
No. It barely gets to that part of the indicator light... If this amp is producing this much power at this price.... what is the trade off with other class amps like Emotivas? I have never heard those so and just wondering.
 

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