JBL L86

[MrBoat]

This day in time, with rechargeable battery technology having evolved to what it is now, you would think they could have these batteries recharge automatically when they get to a certain point. I have rechargeable batteries in all my flashlights, cameras etc. and they last a lot longer in use to start with. For what many of these speakers cost, they could emit a signal, whether it be light or sound when the batteries start to go south. Think smoke alarms when their batteries start getting low.

 

[Swerd]

This is the part that interests me....when did he make the claim, during employment or after? How to know if not more a marketing-driven thing from a skeptical viewpoint?

I believe I read that Timbers wrote that while he still worked at JBL, but after the time when JBL speakers containing charge-coupled crossovers were sold. Those passive analog crossovers evolved into digital DSP used in JBL pro sound systems.

 

[DD66000]

This day in time, with rechargeable battery technology having evolved to what it is now, you would think they could have these batteries recharge automatically when they get to a certain point. I have rechargeable batteries in all my flashlights, cameras etc. and they last a lot longer in use to start with. For what many of these speakers cost, they could emit a signal, whether it be light or sound when the batteries start to go south. Think smoke alarms when their batteries start getting low.

Well, now JBL is no longer using the Charged-Coupled Network.
The last of which were powered by a bias circuit, instead of a 9v battery. Batteries certainly have come a long way since the late '70's, when I first used battery power tools.

 

[Bucknekked]

@DD66000
Electronic explanations aren't enough for me, I want to see listening test results.

Swerd:
We are in violent agreement. One of the banes of audio is the technically detailed description of why a particular audio tweak, like CCN or whatever the geek tweak is, will result in some increase in a thing that needs increasing or will result in a decrease in something that needs decreasing. But nary a word of proof on whether I can hear it or not.

I have listened to @PENG (and others) hammer away at amplifier guru's who claim this or that wonderful feature on their boutique amp because "its better that way". Can I hear it? Can @PENG hear it? Most of the time, Peng doesn't let those geek tweaks slide by with mere claims. Signal to Noise (SNR) ratios is an area where great claims are made for special components. But, in the end, you can't tell the difference.

I think your original post said "upgrading crossover components won't necessarily bring you any better sound" is great advice and supported from a "can I hear it?" point of view. It might be satisfying and a wonderful DIY project to do so and the OP may have had a great time doing it. I don't fault anyone for doing DIY projects on their stuff. Great things can happen. Two thumbs up for projects.

But, would I be able to hear the difference? I think a lot of folks could save significant funds to buy REAL upgrades if they didn't get caught up in spending money on things that just don't make an audible difference. I think if there's one significant lesson I have learned since coming to the AH its finding and discerning those things I can hear verses the promises of "what one might be able to discern".

 

[Bucknekked]

For what many of these speakers cost, they could emit a signal, whether it be light or sound when the batteries start to go south. Think smoke alarms when their batteries start getting low.

MrBoat
Speakers that start chirping like smoke detectors at 3a.m. ? I can just see you after a loooooong and trying day when the kids at work screw up a welding project you have to fix it and you miss the concert you wanted to go to and you don't get home til 10:30pm or 11. You grab a beer and fall asleep listening to some tasty Ronnie Earl or some jazz......................screeech screeeech.........them damn smoke detector noises...........but not from your smoke detectors...................

You made me laugh. That's hard sometimes. Great mental picture. A new affliction of modern technology: speakers that do the smoke detector thing..........

 

[MrBoat]

MrBoat
Speakers that start chirping like smoke detectors at 3a.m. ? I can just see you after a loooooong and trying day when the kids at work screw up a welding project you have to fix it and you miss the concert you wanted to go to and you don't get home til 10:30pm or 11. You grab a beer and fall asleep listening to some tasty Ronnie Earl or some jazz......................screeech screeeech.........them damn smoke detector noises...........but not from your smoke detectors...................

You made me laugh. That's hard sometimes. Great mental picture. A new affliction of modern technology: speakers that do the smoke detector thing..........

It seemed like a just due, under the circumstances. A small price to pay for coddled capacitors.

 

[lovinthehd]

Swerd:
We are in violent agreement. One of the banes of audio is the technically detailed description of why a particular audio tweak, like CCN or whatever the geek tweak is, will result in some increase in a thing that needs increasing or will result in a decrease in something that needs decreasing. But nary a word of proof on whether I can hear it or not.

I have listened to @PENG (and others) hammer away at amplifier guru's who claim this or that wonderful feature on their boutique amp because "its better that way". Can I hear it? Can @PENG hear it? Most of the time, Peng doesn't let those geek tweaks slide by with mere claims. Signal to Noise (SNR) ratios is an area where great claims are made for special components. But, in the end, you can't tell the difference.

I think your original post said "upgrading crossover components won't necessarily bring you any better sound" is great advice and supported from a "can I hear it?" point of view. It might be satisfying and a wonderful DIY project to do so and the OP may have had a great time doing it. I don't fault anyone for doing DIY projects on their stuff. Great things can happen. Two thumbs up for projects.

But, would I be able to hear the difference? I think a lot of folks could save significant funds to buy REAL upgrades if they didn't get caught up in spending money on things that just don't make an audible difference. I think if there's one significant lesson I have learned since coming to the AH its finding and discerning those things I can hear verses the promises of "what one might be able to discern".

Plus there's the added expectation bias from your hard work on the crossover, if it works at all it's going to sound better because your effort is in it However, you no longer have the original to compare it to on the other hand.....

 

[DD66000]

Plus there's the added expectation bias from your hard work on the crossover, if it works at all it's going to sound better because your effort is in it However, you no longer have the original to compare it to on the other hand.....

"If it works at all"

It's been working perfectly for 14 years....and during those years I've turned down at least 6 offers to sell this pair of CCN speakers.....and others asking me to duplicate them.
I don't sell or reproduce for 2, 3 reasons. As time goes, drivers get harder to find and if I could find them, I'd have to fly back to the US to pick them up....not doing it.
And then what I think my time is worth producing only a second of a kind, if I did have all the components to build another set....guarantee it would not be cheap.
Of all the speakers I've auditioned over the last 20 years, in the US, Europe, Japan, Canada, Latin America....I've not heard any that were better for under $20K. So if I can't put $20K in my pocket from selling or reproducing these speakers, zero reason I'd sell them.

 

[lovinthehd]

"If it works at all"

It's been working perfectly for 14 years....and during those years I've turned down at least 6 offers to sell this pair of CCN speakers.....and others asking me to duplicate them.
I don't sell or reproduce for 2, 3 reasons. As time goes, drivers get harder to find and if I could find them, I'd have to fly back to the US to pick them up....not doing it.
And then what I think my time is worth producing only a second of a kind, if I did have all the components to build another set....guarantee it would not be cheap.
Of all the speakers I've auditioned over the last 20 years, in the US, Europe, Japan, Canada, Latin America....I've not heard any that were better for under $20K. So if I can't put $20K in my pocket from selling or reproducing these speakers, zero reason I'd sell them.

That's great, wasn't talking particularly about your speakers but think you're missing my point in any case.

 

[DD66000]

That's great, wasn't talking particularly about your speakers but think you're missing my point in any case.

No, I did get your point. But a person has to put aside any bias against a technology they have no direct knowledge and use of.
A person either gives it a shot or not.
Some people like ribbon tweeters, having personal experiences auditioning ribbons numerous times, I can positively say I don't think they're worth the money. But if I'd never auditioned ribbons, I could not make that statement in all honesty.

 

[Irvrobinson]

No, I did get your point. But a person has to put aside any bias against a technology they have no direct knowledge and use of.
A person either gives it a shot or not.
Some people like ribbon tweeters, having personal experiences auditioning ribbons numerous times, I can positively say I don't think they're worth the money. But if I'd never auditioned ribbons, I could not make that statement in all honesty.

I agree. Years ago I had discounted full-range electrostatics, since they looked impractical and were said not to be able to play loud. Then I heard the Quad electrostatics. I've been fascinated ever since. I still haven't invested, but one of these days, if the right opportunity comes along for Sound Labs I probably will.

 

[lovinthehd]

No, I did get your point. But a person has to put aside any bias against a technology they have no direct knowledge and use of.
A person either gives it a shot or not.
Some people like ribbon tweeters, having personal experiences auditioning ribbons numerous times, I can positively say I don't think they're worth the money. But if I'd never auditioned ribbons, I could not make that statement in all honesty.

No, I think you're still missing my point.