Feeling the need to buy....but what exactly?

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm horribly cheap

How much did you pay for the X2400? You can get a brand new X2300 for $415 on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-X2300W-Channel-Receiver-Bluetooth/dp/B01E69LWWA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1512755838&sr=8-1&keywords=Denon+X2300

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm fully aware I'm at no price point for towers that reach as good as a sub. I figured a sub was in order and indeed have it in the rough budget above.

I've not come across a sub as a stand before. I'd think you would have vibration issues and how do you deal with them?

Vibration is not an issue at all.

I've placed speakers/stands atop subs many times. It started when I had the NHT bookshelf on top of the NHT subwoofer.

Then it was the KEF 201/2 atop the Funk 18.0 subs.

Examples of speakers atop subwoofers:

 

[Tom Bodet]

ADTG: Thx for the pics, I did the math and thought a shorty stand was necessary. I wish I were in OK to see your RBH stuff. I do still envy the look of those.

The 2400 I paid a little more...550 I think. Was on sale and liked the upconvert over the 1400. I'll over-think choices like this but then have a moment where WANT wins/wallet loses.

 

[rojo]

The Salks are nice. I'm a bit hesitant with companies where I'm incurring shipping. In the long run I'm horribly cheap. I'll need to get some points of reference/comparison before pulling the trigger there.

Maybe I'm also taking some of what shady's saying and put more towards sub and go bookshelf. Did I mention I'm indecisive? That's mostly the reason I never bought the Paradigms a few years back. Call it old man syndrome or "I got this here, it still works."

I do fancy myself handy and looked at DIY previously. Those you did look great but I think wifey needs a little style and the number of unfinished projects in the shop (including parts of the shop) is getting out of hand.

I see you have those AVBP2s (or did). I don't know what to make of Fluance. Almost seems too cheap to be good.

I still have the AVBP2s See this post for my thoughts on them. For most of Fluance's offerings, I think you pretty much get what you pay for in sound quality, but their finishes are as nice as you'll find for the money. shadyJ seems to dig the sound of their Signature series, but I'd be hesitant to rely on their quality control. However, I do believe Fluance has exceptional customer service, and they offer a 30-day risk free in home trial. If you happen to get a pair of speakers with 4:55 Friday evening assembled crossovers, Fluance will put forth effort to make things right.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

ADTG: Thx for the pics, I did the math and thought a shorty stand was necessary. I wish I were in OK to see your RBH stuff. I do still envy the look of those.

The 2400 I paid a little more...550 I think. Was on sale and liked the upconvert over the 1400. I'll over-think choices like this but then have a moment where WANT wins/wallet loses.

$550 isn't bad for the X2400 brand new. I thought you paid closer to $800.

It seems ShadyJ and I are probably the ONLY 2 guys on the forum who like the idea of placing speakers atop subs.

I have both the RBH SX-T2 and SVT modular towers, which are literally speakers atop externally-powered subwoofers.

The $50,000 Status Acoustics 8T modular towers that Gene owns are also speakers atop externally-powered subwoofers.

Like ShadyJ says, basically all of the big full-range towers are speakers atop subwoofers.

So might as well get some dynamic speakers and put them atop subwoofers and make yourself a full-range modular tower with some real bass.

 

[shadyJ]

$550 isn't bad for the X2400 brand new. I thought you paid closer to $800.

It seems Shady and I are probably the ONLY 2 guys on the forum who advocate placing speakers atop subs.

I have both the RBH SX-T2 and SVT modular towers, which are literally speakers atop externally-powered subwoofers.

The $50,000 Status Acoustics 8T modular towers that Gene owns are also speakers atop externally-powered subwoofers.

Like Shady says, basically all of the big full-range towers are speakers atop subwoofers.

So might as well get some dynamic speakers and put them atop subwoofers and make yourself a full-range modular tower with some real bass.

Placing bookshelf speakers on subs is not without its trade-offs. That will get you better bass performance than a tower speaker, but a 3-way tower with a good midrange driver can have better performance in the mids than a 2-way bookshelf speaker, depending on circumstances. Also, getting the best bass frequency response in-room from subwoofer placement is not likely to the same location as your mains.

But one other advantage of using a subwoofer as a speaker mount with a high crossover point is that is less bass range that will be affected by ground bounce reflections versus tower speakers. I am sure we could make a whole list of pros and cons.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I am sure we could make a whole list of pros and cons.

Definitely.

We have to take everything into account, including SQ, available space, aesthetic, logistic, cost, etc. Everything.

In terms of SQ, I don't think speakers-atop-subs is always better than towers+subs and vice versa.

 

[Tom Bodet]

You two are killin' me. lol

I've headed here tomorrow afternoon just to get some demo time. Probably not much in my range but maybe some perspective will be had.

 

[shadyJ]

You two are killin' me. lol

I've headed here tomorrow afternoon just to get some demo time. Probably not much in my range but maybe some perspective will be had.

I wouldn't sweat this decision too much. You are already on the right path. Whether you get towers or bookshelf speakers/ subs, you are going to end up with a decent system. If you stick with reliably good brands, the way you set it up is going to have a greater impact on the sound than what brand you choose. Look at speaker placement guides, and try to get as close as possible to ideal speaker placement.

 

[2channel lover]

We recently moved and my receiver didn't make it. I've also been itching for a little more screen so a frantic trip over to BB got me a 55" Vizio and a Denon ARWX-2400H.

Now I'm itching to fix my speaker setup. We don't listen loud. I prefer the wide soundstage the Bose offer...not much else. Love clarity and being able to pick out texture over thump and wow.

Reading here has opened me up to all kinds of options. For some examples of things I've seen...
I really like the look of RBH impression series but only 1 dealer 100m away and don't like having to cover the return shipping. The Aperion Verus II Grands are also very pretty although a little higher than our price but..who knows.

A couple years ago I had tried this and sat with some Paradigm towers I fell for. Think they were Prestige but don't recall that far back.

They will be seen and would like them to have a look about them the wife will appreciate while making me smile the whole damn time.

So....?
Thanks

Paradigm...the Monitor 9 is a great moderate price floorstander.

Monitor Audio...demo the Bronze if you can.

I keep referring this speaker to friends because it's fairly easy to demo them...most BB Magnolias will stock it...Martin Logan Motion 40...for your tastes they are worth a listen.

To your last point in a red...the Salks Towers check all the boxes.

Shipping...I get it, but to get comparable sound quality you would spend twice the amount on an OEM speaker and still fall way short on cosmetics.

 

[Tom Bodet]

Took some time on Sat. To listen. Kind of a catch 22. One side I got to hear he Prestige 75 and bookshelf as well as being introduced to Dynaudio x34s. On the other side I heard all the things I didn't like about each.

No subs were used. The Prestige bookshelves held pretty well, the towers were obviously rounder/fuller but not sure worth the extra. The x34s were a pleasant surprise but didn't feel as good. I guess I was hoping to be wowed and it didn't happen.

What did I learn? That I gotta take my time. I've started reading more on philharmonics, ascends and the salks. Another thing is as sexy as the deep cherry cabinets are, it's hard to tell them from black in low light.

 

[yepimonfire]

Took some time on Sat. To listen. Kind of a catch 22. One side I got to hear he Prestige 75 and bookshelf as well as being introduced to Dynaudio x34s. On the other side I heard all the things I didn't like about each.

No subs were used. The Prestige bookshelves held pretty well, the towers were obviously rounder/fuller but not sure worth the extra. The x34s were a pleasant surprise but didn't feel as good. I guess I was hoping to be wowed and it didn't happen.

What did I learn? That I gotta take my time. I've started reading more on philharmonics, ascends and the salks. Another thing is as sexy as the deep cherry cabinets are, it's hard to tell them from black in low light.

Really need to see if they can be demoed with a sub and level matched so bass doesn’t skew your perception. Lack of bass is like lack of volume, more bass will strongly influence your opinion, even though the bass isn’t an issue with subs.

Towers only offer a larger cabinet (which is why they have deeper bass) and sometimes an extra woofer. The only way a tower would be an upgrade is if the tower is a 3 way configuration vs a 2 way bookshelf, but again, it depends. IMO, so long as the bookshelf speaker can make it to about 60hz, when paired with a sub you’ll get better performance than towers alone with no sub.

I agree with @shadyJ about diminishing returns past a flat response on and off axis, however, depending on the speaker, you can still achieve stuff like reduced harmonic and intermodulation distortion with better speakers. A bigger woofer in a 2 way to reduce excursion or a 3 way tower to separate the midrange from the bass goes a long way, but this really only becomes an issue at higher volumes/excursion.

 

[KenM10759]

A shame that for all the brands that place carries they don't offer anything from KEF. The closeouts on the Q series makes them a great value, and from what you describe for not liking "bright" speakers the Q100/Q300/Q500/Q700 (and perhaps Q900) might all fit what your ears like. Cheap enough to augment with quality subs and have a great, complete system.

 

[Tom Bodet]

A shame that for all the brands that place carries they don't offer anything from KEF. The closeouts on the Q series makes them a great value, and from what you describe for not liking "bright" speakers the Q100/Q300/Q500/Q700 (and perhaps Q900) might all fit what your ears like. Cheap enough to augment with quality subs and have a great, complete system.

Dealer locator on KEF's site says nobody in VA sells them. Internet dealers has BB and Crutchfield (which has a store in VA) are listed. I was trying to plan a trip out to them in Charlottesville since they also have Monitor series.

 

[KenM10759]

Crutchfield does have some KEF products. I guess KEF hasn't given them quite as much kickback as other lines or they'd be featured more prominently. Best Buy/Magnolia seems to have the same issue, because I don't see KEF in their stores though they show almost all of it on their website. None of the outgoing Q series other than the Q100 bookshelf at $249 a pair. Oh well.

 

[Swerd]

Dealer locator on KEF's site says nobody in VA sells them. Internet dealers has BB and Crutchfield (which has a store in VA) are listed. I was trying to plan a trip out to them in Charlottesville since they also have Monitor series.

I'm in Gaithersburg, MD, not far from DC and northern Virginia, and Dennis Murphy (owner of Philharmonic Audio and crossover designer for Salk) is nearby in Glen Echo, MD.

Depending on where you are in Virginia, a short day's trip could let you hear several Salk and Philharmonic Audio models. I have Salk Veracity ST speakers, and Dennis always has something different and interesting. His house is a speaker junkie's nirvana. You are welcome to come hear mine, and I know Dennis is usually happy to have visitors interested in speakers.

I realize the Salk Veracity ST speakers I now have are beyond your price range, but they have enough similarities to the Salk SongTower to make them worth hearing.

 

[Tom Bodet]

I'm in Gaithersburg, MD, not far from DC and northern Virginia, and Dennis Murphy (owner of Philharmonic Audio and crossover designer for Salk) is nearby in Glen Echo, MD.

Depending on where you are in Virginia, a short day's trip could let you hear several Salk and Philharmonic Audio models. I have Salk Veracity ST speakers, and Dennis always has something different and interesting. His house is a speaker junkie's nirvana. You are welcome to come hear mine, and I know Dennis is usually happy to have visitors interested in speakers.

I realize the Salk Veracity ST speakers I now have are beyond your price range, but they have enough similarities to the Salk SongTower to make them worth hearing.

<insert jaw drop here>

I tried editing my profile but for the life of me can't find how/where to add my location.

That's very kind of you. I moved further south from NoVA to get away from the traffic. Google says roughly 1:30 trip time, factoring in NoVA's patented Random Event Traffic Generator that could be a 3 hour one way trip so I'm not sure. I'm definitely tempted, especially if Dennis is available, I keep coming back to the BMRs.

 

[Swerd]

<insert jaw drop here>

I tried editing my profile but for the life of me can't find how/where to add my location.

That's very kind of you. I moved further south from NoVA to get away from the traffic. Google says roughly 1:30 trip time, factoring in NoVA's patented Random Event Traffic Generator that could be a 3 hour one way trip so I'm not sure. I'm definitely tempted, especially if Dennis is available, I keep coming back to the BMRs.

I've heard the BMR and I think they're worth the trip to hear them. In my experience, traffic on I-495 is not at all random. Its snarled everyday. Perhaps during the last week in December, things just might be different.

You should definitely contact Dennis and arrange a visit. See http://philharmonicaudio.com/order.html.

He does R&D, design, assembly, QC, orders, shipping, and customer service all from his home, aka Philharmonic Audio Industries HQ. If you end up ordering from him, you can pick them up yourself and save on the shipping.

 

[Bucknekked]

Tom Bodet,
OK, I'll bite. Motel 6 Tom Bodet ?(We'll leave the light on for you?")

Either way, welcome to the AH forum and anybody that's interested in Salks or Philharmonics is OK by me.
If you can't get down to hear Swerds, its just a few more hours out west to hear Mine in Arizona.
I have the Songtowers and I think they are awesome.

I believe because of price, my next set may be the Philharmonic 3s. Dunno. BY the time I save up the coin, Dennis Murphy may have a new creation I may need.

Hope you are able to audition them. I can always make a little time if you drive out here.

Terry in Arizona

 

[Bucknekked]

I tried editing my profile but for the life of me can't find how/where to add my location.

Tom Bodet and Swerd:

I can at least steer you in the right direction to edit your profile and add a location.
For the last year I tried all kinds of things to no avail.
As it turns out, you can not edit your own profile and add a location.
(insert long boring forum tool story here)

However I have discovered the secret handshake that will get it done.
Send a PM to @Bizarro_Stormy and ask him in a pleasant way if he will add the location of your dreams to your profile. Apparently, he has been blessed with the magic dust to make this happen.

I don't think he is under any edict to do so, but, if you ask him nice he has granted this favor to many who have asked. He added my location the same day I asked and a couple of other folks out west as well.

There you go. I was able to actually give you a piece of useful information. I'm taking the rest of the day off.