AV Receiver / External Amplifier

[SAPSEC]

I am about to set-up a 5.1 home theatre using

* Front : Monitor Bronze 6 (150W, 90dB, 8ohms)
* Center: Monitor Bronze Center (120W, 8ohms)
* Surround: Monitor Brone 2 (100W, 90dB, 8ohms)

with Yamaha RX-A2060 rated 140 W with 2 ch driven.

Besides home-theatre usage I listen to music occasionally. When driving 5 channels listening to music do you think RX-A2060 could handle above set-up or must I use an external amplifier Emotiva 5 channel ? Thanks

 

[lovinthehd]

More depends on how loud you want to run it and how far the distance from speaker to your seat is....but I think you're generally fine with the avr alone, that should drive such speakers to quite satisfyingly loud levels. The max wattage figures for a speaker don't mean a lot, more a limit usually. Try it with just the avr first then if running into issues with distortion or clipping add an amp later....might try to use an spl calculator to get an idea of your power needs for your speakers and seat.

 

[agarwalro]

If you like to crank it, keep a look out for the AVR shutting down or developing listening fatigue after a few minutes of loud music. If either of these happen, it is a symptom of need a beefier amp.

 

[Cedric Winston]

Can the yamaha s801 intergrated amp be used as a multi-channel power amp

 

[PENG]

Can the yamaha s801 intergrated amp be used as a multi-channel power amp

Yes you can use it to power the L/R channels, but for those speakers, the RX-A2060 is all you need and the S801 is not necessary. The two channel driven output of the the two units into 8 and 4 ohms should be very comparable.

 

[Cedric Winston]

Yes you can use it to power the L/R channels, but for those speakers, the RX-A2060 is all you need and the S801 is not necessary. The two channel driven output of the the two units into 8 and 4 ohms should be very comparable.

I'm using the rx a850 in 5.2.2 atmos system and recently opted to disconnect the atmos speakers because my midrange wasn't as clear as before ,Im thinking not quite enough power was hoping I could fix this with the as801?

 

[KEW]

Yes you can use it to power the L/R channels, but for those speakers, the RX-A2060 is all you need and the S801 is not necessary. The two channel driven output of the the two units into 8 and 4 ohms should be very comparable.

Is it okay to feed a preamplified signal into a second preamp?
I always assumed there was a reason you could not...but you know what they say about assumptions!
The A-S801 does not have a jumper between pre and amp.

 

[Cedric Winston]

Is it okay to feed a preamplified signal into a second preamp?
I always assumed there was a reason you could not...but you know what they say about assumptions!
The A-S801 does not have a jumper between pre and amp.

Ok ,I just needed to know,thank u , was trying to get around spending more money for an amp

 

[KEW]

I'm using the rx a850 in 5.2.2 atmos system and recently opted to disconnect the atmos speakers because my midrange wasn't as clear as before ,Im thinking not quite enough power was hoping I could fix this with the as801?

The RX A850 probably has the same amp section as the 860 (which is a bad thing)! So you are doing the right thing to offload the AVR!

I love all of the streaming features the Yamaha RX-A860 offers. In fact, I'd say as far as networking and streaming audio goes, this is likely the best option in AV receivers under $1k. However, I don't like how offering all of these features has caused compromises in the most important area, POWER. While the RX-A860 is fine driving small bass-managed 8 ohm speakers, this is the first time I'd actually caution people against using 4 ohm speakers or even running 8 ohm tower speakers on the “large” setting. I’ve never said this about a Yamaha before. It's sad that a $400 predecessor from the very same company offered a more robust amp and power section than this product, which has AVENTAGE moniker stamped on it. To pour further salt on the power wound, the preamp out section of this receiver is a bit weak, making it critical to match with a high gain amplifier to ensure the preamp itself doesn't clip while driving external amplification. I'd like to see Yamaha beef up the amp section so the current limiting could be a little less restrictive and for God's sake, please give us a clean 2Vrms output from the pre-outs of ALL your AV receivers!

http://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/yamaha-rx-a860/conclusion

I think Gene did this in a confusing way, but compares the 860 and the Denon 3300 power capability by posting both charts (Yamaha on top of the Denon) on this page. Note that they did not even report the Yamaha for CFP-BW power at 4 ohms! It is a safe bet that those test results were pretty damning!
http://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/denon-avr-x3300w-1/measurements

 

[PENG]

The A20X0 is in a different class than the A8X0 and A10X0. Take a look if the S&V bench test, iirc it's the 2050 they tested.

 

[KEW]

Ok ,I just needed to know,thank u , was trying to get around spending more money for an amp

I'm not sure!
I am asking @PENG . He knows much more about amps than I will ever forget.
I'm not sure if he mixed up the A-S801 with a different model that has main amp inputs or if is okay to feed a pre-out into a pre-in!
Wait for him to reply before deciding anything.

 

[Cedric Winston]

Ok ,I just needed to know,thank u , was trying to get around spending more money for an amp

Allow me to explain and I sure you can help me .I have that receiver, polk rti a1s as
front l/r and surrounds ,polk csi a4 center,two svs subwoofers,and was running two klipsh quintet v5 firing toward the ceiling,(dont lauph it was effective) but noticed the midrange difference. Would external power help. Thanks in advance.

 

[KEW]

The A20X0 is in a different class than the A8X0 and A10X0. Take a look if the S&V bench test, iirc it's the 2040 they tested.

The OP had a 2060, but Cedric Hi-jacked the thread (with a 850).

 

[Cedric Winston]

The OP had a 2060, but Cedric Hi-jacked the thread (with a 850).

I'm sorry.

 

[KEW]

I'm using the rx a850 in 5.2.2 atmos system and recently opted to disconnect the atmos speakers because my midrange wasn't as clear as before ,Im thinking not quite enough power was hoping I could fix this with the as801?

So, are you using the 850 to drive 7 speakers?
Which speakers?

Be careful hijacking threads, because like Peng, I was assuming you had a 2060 and were running Monitor Bronze (8 Ohm) speakers. It is okay to piggy-back if the original has run its course, but it is good form for your first post to declare all of your info so we don't mix things up.

 

[KEW]

I'm sorry.

It happens, no worries!

 

[KEW]

Allow me to explain and I sure you can help me .I have that receiver, polk rti a1s as
front l/r and surrounds ,polk csi a4 center,two svs subwoofers,and was running two klipsh quintet v5 firing toward the ceiling,(dont lauph it was effective) but noticed the midrange difference. Would external power help. Thanks in advance.

Okay, I missed this!
Thanks

 

[KEW]

The RTi A1’s listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +3.06/ –3.70 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz. An average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal responses measures +3.39/–3.28 dB from 200 Hz to 10 kHz. The –3-dB point is at 86 Hz, and the –6-dB point is at 52 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of 4.43 ohms at 213 Hz and a phase angle of –57.06 degrees at 111 Hz.
Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/content/polk-rti-a1-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures#eBxCCu6pp8EKceCU.99

I could not find any measurements for the center or surrounds, but between using all 5 channels and the 4.4 ohm low of the R&L they would likely challenge the 850's output if it shares the amp section of the 860!

If you note the portion of the review of the 860 I posted earlier, it pointed out that the 860 is poorly suited as a pre-amp because of the low output level.
I'm thinking you are better off to cut your losses and move away from the 850!

Onkyo/Integra has been plagued with reliability issues and, consequently, they have some refurbished gear going for a song (with a 2 year warranty as assurance they have fixed the issue). If you are willing to take that gamble, I would consider this the best value:
https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/intdtr702/integra-dtr-70.2-9.2-ch-x-140-watts-thx-networking-a/v-receiver/1.html
$375 gets a 140Watt THX certified AVR with Audyssey XT32! The THX certification is assurance there is solid meat to the amp section (THX certification has become largely obsolete, but AVR's like the Yamaha 860 may cause it to return to relevancy!). This AVR had a MSRP of $2000.

If you'd like to avoid the "Onkyo gamble", then this Denon 3300 for $480 gets you Audyssey XT32, but not as much power (but likely still be enough).
https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/denavrx3300w/denon-avr-x3300w-7.2-ch-x-105-watts-networking-a/v-receiver/1.html

If you want to avoid refurb, $600 gets a new Denon 3300 at Amazon.

Last, if you want to minimize the risk (go cheap) and are willing to play Onkyo Gamble, $210 gets about the power of the Denon 3300 and Audyssey 2EQ:
https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/intdtr304/integra-dtr-30.4-7.2-ch-x-100-watts-thx-networking-a/v-receiver/1.html

Any of these represent a significant power/current upgrade over your 850. I feel best about he $375 Integra as it has the best amp section; however, all have pre-amp outputs should you need to add amps later.

 

[PENG]

I'm not sure!
I am asking @PENG . He knows much more about amps than I will ever forget.
I'm not sure if he mixed up the A-S801 with a different model that has main amp inputs or if is okay to feed a pre-out into a pre-in!
Wait for him to reply before deciding anything.

Thank you for correcting me. One can still use the line level inputs but that's obviously not as good as bypassing the preamp.

I really don't see the benefit of the A-S801 over the RX-A2060 but definitely miles ahead of the RX-A850 or 860. I wouldn't even use the 850 as prepro based on Gene's review on the 860.

 

[KEW]

Thank you for correcting me. One can still use the line level inputs but that's obviously not as good as bypassing the preamp.

I really don't see the benefit of the A-S801 over the RX-A2060.

The OP, "SAPSEC" had the 2060 with Monitor Bronze speakers. He is AWOL and Cedric has been asking the more recent questions. He has a RX-A850 and I presume he also owns an A-S801. The A-S801 would certainly outperform his A850 (based on Gene's review of the 860, quoted below).

...this is the first time I'd actually caution people against using 4 ohm speakers or even running 8 ohm tower speakers on the “large” setting. I’ve never said this about a Yamaha before. It's sad that a $400 predecessor from the very same company offered a more robust amp and power section than this product, which has AVENTAGE moniker stamped on it. To pour further salt on the power wound, the preamp out section of this receiver is a bit weak, making it critical to match with a high gain amplifier to ensure the preamp itself doesn't clip while driving external amplification. I'd like to see Yamaha beef up the amp section so the current limiting could be a little less restrictive and for God's sake, please give us a clean 2Vrms output from the pre-outs of ALL your AV receivers!

I had developed a sense that Yamaha was actually a step above the other AVR manufacturers (aside from deciding not to use Audyssey), and was saddened to find they are cutting corners in ways that really affect the listening experience. I thought their Aventage series was a good assurance of not having these types of BS problems!