What are my rights here in Ontario canada ?

[highfigh]

Update :

The lack of serial number was not the dealers fault

I spoke with Richard who told me the dealer shipped directly from the warehouse , so he would nt know the serial number

My error , my apologies

But other important details are still missing , such as the true value of the H 360 and the trade in value of the repaired amp

Thanks

Someone is either not telling the truth, or something isn't being understood- NOBODY should ship something without knowing its serial number.

 

[Muzique Junkie]

Someone is either not telling the truth, or something isn't being understood- NOBODY should ship something without knowing its serial number.

Thanks

I was thinking that as well

For some reason i bought the explanation the dealer did not have the s/n

Now im thinking , how easy it would be yo ask for it

 

[Muzique Junkie]

If you used the variable output on the Hegel, you would have to set the volume control to maximum, or high enough to drive the Dark star. Or you would have to set the Dark star volume to maximum (just for argument sake, don't do it) and use the Hegel's volume control instead.

thank you

yes i tried that

For some reason variable will not produce any sound to my cans tho

Im just hoping this is not an issue with my spanking new H 360

Or is there some technical reason it wont work?

Richard was very helpful in telling me to make both scenarios work , but still no sound from variable

Ray Samuels (always very informed and helpful) suggests
i use the fixed line out, RCA left & right, from my integrated amp to the RCA input of the DARKSTAR.

The DARKSTAR is capable of taking a single ended RCA signal from my H360 integrated amp & converts it to the balanced signal so you can enjoy my h360 integrated amp.

im not certain if he is suggesting the Darkstar will not work in variable for some reason ?

Is he also suggesting that im still getting a balanced output to my cans ?

Im using moon Black Dragon balanced cables from the front of my Darkstar still , before i also had balanced xlrs from 280D to back of Darkstar

I have to add the sound is heavenly on my HD-800s

I do not remember this level of synergy with my Simaudio 280D

The level of audio im hearing does not make sense in that i ve went from a very expensive seperate DAC with full balanced xlrs , to an integrated DAC with single RCA ends

It may sound better now , but its def. at least as good

I was listening to some acoustic viking folk metal ,and the strings were astounding

Time will tell , but so far i am not missing my 280D(a very adequate DAC)


@Johnny2Bad

Thank you , yes i have done that

Thank you all for your patience and endurance

 

[PENG]

thank you

yes i tried that

For some reason variable will not produce any sound to my cans tho

Im just hoping this is not an issue with my spanking new H 360

Or is there some technical reason it wont work?

I can't think of any, unless there is some kind of selector switch. If you have a multi meter, set to the lowest ac voltage range and try measuring the variable outputs and see what kind of voltage you are getting with the volume set to maximum.

Note: Just make sure if you did not have the "mute" button pressed. That will affect the variable output but not the fixed output.

 

[Muzique Junkie]

I can't think of any, unless there is some kind of selector switch. If you have a multi meter, set to the lowest ac voltage range and try measuring the variable outputs and see what kind of voltage you are getting with the volume set to maximum.

Note: Just make sure if you did not have the "mute" button pressed. That will affect the variable output but not the fixed output.

Thank you

 

[Muzique Junkie]

Sorry Im late with this many requested this infos



The dealer is Mystic audio (Soon Saturn audio) Also sells on Canuck audio mart.



The amp is a Blue circle ELD-BD .I msg Gilbert and have asked him to clarify what needed to be replaced , and why he thinks its my speakers that blew the amp .



No reply yet

 

[TLS Guy]

Sorry Im late with this many requested this infos



The dealer is Mystic audio (Soon Saturn audio) Also sells on Canuck audio mart.



The amp is a Blue circle ELD-BD .I msg Gilbert and have asked him to clarify what needed to be replaced , and why he thinks its my speakers that blew the amp .



No reply yet

So you bought a class D amp from a little known one man band company. The problem with class D amps is that they tend not to be stable with all loads. Quite a few Dynaudio speakers are difficult loads.

I suspect that class D amp did not like the impedance curve and or phase angles of those Dynaudio speakers.

One of the problems with small companies is that you can test with every speaker out there.

The best approach is the late Peter Walker's approach at Quad, of trying to make amps unconditionally stable into all loads. Very few amps are so you can run into your type of issue.

I can not find an impedance curve and phase angles for those speakers.

I would be very interested if you could get the gear to measure them.

That is the only way further light could be shed on this problem.

I can be certain that that Blue Circle amp can not tolerate the load that the Dynaudio focus 340s present to it.

 

[Muzique Junkie]

So you bought a class D amp from a little known one man band company. The problem with class D amps is that they tend not to be stable with all loads. Quite a few Dynaudio speakers are difficult loads.

I suspect that class D amp did not like the impedance curve and or phase angles of those Dynaudio speakers.

One of the problems with small companies is that you can test with every speaker out there.

The best approach is the late Peter Walker's approach at Quad, of trying to make amps unconditionally stable into all loads. Very few amps are so you can run into your type of issue.

I can not find an impedance curve and phase angles for those speakers.

I would be very interested if you could get the gear to measure them.

That is the only way further light could be shed on this problem.

I can be certain that that Blue Circle amp can not tolerate the load that the Dynaudio focus 340s present to it.

Thank you

Thats likely why that (amongst other blue circles) amp is discontinued

Of note the dealer has this exact setup in his showroom , and praises it

Sold me the speakers and the amp as a good match

 

[PENG]

Thank you

Thats likely why that (amongst other blue circles) amp is discontinued

Of note the dealer has this exact setup in his showroom , and praises it

Sold me the speakers and the amp as a good match

Before I can agree with TLGGuy, we need to know at least the following:

1. Each time it blew, what was the amp doing prior, playing loud, how loud, just idling, just turned on or what?

2. If it was playing, loud, in addition to the need to know how loud (SPL), we also need to know the distance you were sitting from the speakers and the approx. room dimensions (LXWXH0.

The thing is, no matter how hard to drive the 340's are, they can't blow any amp if the amp is just idling, or at low output level that is far below it's rated output into 4 ohm or even lower impedance.

 

[Muzique Junkie]

Before I can agree with TLGGuy, we need to know at least the following:

1. Each time it blew, what was the amp doing prior, playing loud, how loud, just idling, just turned on or what?

2. If it was playing, loud, in addition to the need to know how loud (SPL), we also need to know the distance you were sitting from the speakers and the approx. room dimensions (LXWXH0.

The thing is, no matter how hard to drive the 340's are, they can't blow any amp if the amp is just idling, or at low output level that is far below it's rated output into 4 ohm or even lower impedance.

1.Not loud atall ,as i have neighbours bedrooms and childrens directly below the speakers

Do i love loud ? Indeed its the only way to feel the noise . So then i use my cans for that experience

 

[PENG]

1.Not loud atall ,as i have neighbours bedrooms and childrens directly below the speakers

Do i love loud ? Indeed its the only way to feel the noise . So then i use my cans for that experience

Thanks, but that's vague. Need to know the SPL from your listening position, distance from speakers and room dimensions. Without such minimum info, one should even try to draw a conclusion.

So I guess you have at least confirmed that when the amp blew, you were listening to music, and the amp simply went silent suddenly?

 

[Muzique Junkie]

Thanks, but that's vague. Need to know the SPL from your listening position, distance from speakers and room dimensions. Without such minimum info, one should even try to draw a conclusion.

So I guess you have at least confirmed that when the amp blew, you were listening to music, and the amp simply went silent suddenly?

No

This has been covered already , but i dont mind repeating because i dont expect you to parse this entire thread

I was listening to music , not loud atall

I turned volume to zero , shut music off , and shut amp down

I went out for several hours , came back home , turned amp on , and pop !!!!!

At 1st i was told my Dynaudio focus 340s blew the amp , once the Dyns were checked and OKd , the new explanation became " well we dont know what happened "

Thus the warranty is null and void , i had to either pony up 600.00 for repairs and take back a twice blown amp i have zero confidence in , or accept a deal where i would take a bit of a financial shining

With my choices so limited i took a trade for a H 360 plus another 3400.00 from me

I sit about 12 -15 ft from speakers

Thanks

 

[Muzique Junkie]

I also forgot to add this

The dealer said he was at an audio show a few weeks ago in Toronto , and ran into not 1 , but 2 , in separate incidents , Dynaudio reps who went "Oh yes we ve known our speakers to do that"

In fact as i recall the story , they volunteered that information without any other details

I never got any names tho , and i did alot of research by myself and spoke to a few Dyn repair folks , who had never heard of such a thing . They were not pleased that this was the claim being made

Take away what you may from that

 

[PENG]

No

This has been covered already , but i dont mind repeating because i dont expect you to parse this entire thread

I was listening to music , not loud atall

I turned volume to zero , shut music off , and shut amp down

I went out for several hours , came back home , turned amp on , and pop !!!!!

At 1st i was told my Dynaudio focus 340s blew the amp , once the Dyns were checked and OKd , the new explanation became " well we dont know what happened "

Thus the warranty is null and void , i had to either pony up 600.00 for repairs and take back a twice blown amp i have zero confidence in , or accept a deal where i would take a bit of a financial shining

With my choices so limited i took a trade for a H 360 plus another 3400.00 from me

I sit about 12 -15 ft from speakers

Thanks

Thanks again, fyi I did scan all the pages quickly before I asked but obviously I missed. So based on this information, I would say any well designed integrated amplifier that is rated 300 W 8 ohms should not blow on turned on with volume at 0 and that should have nothing to do with your 4 ohm speakers. That pretty much proved the amp is either badly designed, or there are some defective component(s) or wiring in the circuitry, or combination of those things.

 

[PENG]

I also forgot to add this

The dealer said he was at an audio show a few weeks ago in Toronto , and ran into not 1 , but 2 , in separate incidents , Dynaudio reps who went "Oh yes we ve known our speakers to do that"

In fact as i recall the story , they volunteered that information without any other details

I never got any names tho , and i did alot of research by myself and spoke to a few Dyn repair folks , who had never heard of such a thing . They were not pleased that this was the claim being made

Take away what you may from that

That's BS, again, you have the volume at 0 when you turned on the amp and it blew. Just tell the Dyn guys that and see what they have to say.

We are not talking a $300 amp, but a $5,000 amp that claimed the following on their website:

"ELD and ELD-BD Standard Features
135 watts into 8 ohms and 270 watts into 4 ohms.(ELD)
300 watts into 8 ohms and 600 watts into 4 ohms (ELD-BD)"

The Dyn was only rated IEC long term >250 W. Okay we know what > means but if it is much more than that they would have said something like >275W, >300W etc., so basically we know they meant the speakers are just rated around 250W, IEC long term.

 

[TLS Guy]

I also forgot to add this

The dealer said he was at an audio show a few weeks ago in Toronto , and ran into not 1 , but 2 , in separate incidents , Dynaudio reps who went "Oh yes we ve known our speakers to do that"

In fact as i recall the story , they volunteered that information without any other details

I never got any names tho , and i did alot of research by myself and spoke to a few Dyn repair folks , who had never heard of such a thing . They were not pleased that this was the claim being made

Take away what you may from that

Sorry to pester you with questions, but more clarification is needed. Did both the amp failures occur at switch on?

Every time you powered up that amp was there a fairly loud pop from the speakers?

From what you say now, it seems these failures have mainly been in the power supply, as both channels failed. Is that correct?

Power supplies tend to be one of the week links in class D amps.

I ask about the pop, as if there was one, then on turn on the speakers must have stayed connected to the power transistors. The pop would be from turn on DC off set which is common in a lot of amps.

Dynaudio drivers have robust and powerful motor systems. They tend to be low DC resistance, and high inductance.

My W 75 drivers 8 ohm rated have a DC resistance of 5 ohms, so two in parallel have a DC resistance of only 2.5 ohms. So in a situation like yours the DC in rush would be high and there would be a high back EMF voltage spike sent back to the amp as this current died.

What ever the situation between the manufacturer and the dealer they need to reimburse you $5000 or whatever you paid for that Blue Note amp, unless it came with a warning: - Do not use with Dynaudio speakers.

Your treatment at the hands of this dealer and manufacturer has been appalling.
You should have been right in their faces right from the beginning, but that is water under the bridge.

 

[PENG]

Sorry to pester you with questions, but more clarification is needed. Did both the amp failures occur at switch on?

Every time you powered up that amp was there a fairly loud pop from the speakers?

From what you say now, it seems these failures have mainly been in the power supply, as both channels failed. Is that correct?

Power supplies tend to be one of the week links in class D amps.

I ask about the pop, as if there was one, then on turn on the speakers must have stayed connected to the power transistors. The pop would be from turn on DC off set which is common in a lot of amps.

Dynaudio drivers have robust and powerful motor systems. They tend to be low DC resistance, and high inductance.

My W 75 drivers 8 ohm rated have a DC resistance of 5 ohms, so two in parallel have a DC resistance of only 2.5 ohms. So in a situation like yours the DC in rush would be high and there would be a high back EMF voltage spike sent back to the amp as this current died.

What ever the situation between the manufacturer and the dealer they need to reimburse you $5000 or whatever you paid for that Blue Note amp, unless it came with a warning: - Do not use with Dynaudio speakers.

Your treatment at the hands of this dealer and manufacturer has been appalling.
You should have been right in their faces right from the beginning, but that is water under the bridge.

But dc offset voltage should be very low, even 100 mV should be considered unusually high.

 

[TLS Guy]

But dc offset voltage should be very low, even 100 mV should be considered unusually high.

Well I have heard amps that deliver a big wallop from the speakers at switch on. Receivers and a lot of amps have relays on timers to stop the DC spike getting through. Obviously those Blue Note amps like his are junk. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of why.

 

[PENG]

Well I have heard amps that deliver a big wallop from the speakers at switch on. Receivers and a lot of amps have relays on timers to stop the DC spike getting through. Obviously those Blue Note amps like his are junk. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of why.

Okay, my comments was meant for well designed amps. I know nothing about those Blue Circle amps so nothing I said apply to those amps. Let's see what you can dig out.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...
I turned volume to zero , shut music off , and shut amp down

I went out for several hours , came back home , turned amp on , and pop !!!!!

...

Can I assume from this that the volume shows in positive numbers, the higher the number the louder it plays?
Do you always turn off the amps last?

Did you turn on the other components first when you came back? Or, they were off? Did the amp show zero volume on turn on? And the speakers went pop.